Author Topic: 20 ga rifled barrel problems (Read 2149 times)

sdelam · « **on:** February 24, 2010, 03:00:54 PM »

Hello everyone, a little birdie told me this is the place to ask for help with an H&R slug gun. I have a good $100 bucks in ammo through this thing and I can’t seem to find anything it likes. I have tried SSt's, rem core lok's and several rifled slugs as well just to satisfy my curiosity. The thing is that none of them shoot any better that the other. I get about 5" groups at 50 yds- 7" or so at 70 yards and cant hit the paper at all at 90 yds. I missed a deer twice with it this past season inside of 60 yds. I'm at a loss. Any ideas..Thanks guys

JustShootin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:04:32 PM »

A question that will get asked is which barrel is it? USH or tracker.

sdelam · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:09:22 PM »

Not sure. It's not a bull barrel, if that helps. It has a black plastic stock and came with a .357 barrel as well.

spikehorn · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:18:41 PM »

I don't mean this to make you sound dumb, but are you sure the barrel is rifled, have you looked down it and seen the rifling? Next question is it scoped or does it have rifle sights?

sdelam · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:05:05 PM »

ha ha ha ,

yea I'm sure it's rifled. I have tried 2 different scopes/mounts with the same results. It does not have rifle sights. The scope rail was already installed when I bought it new, and it is tight.

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:17:10 PM »

What kind of scope do you have on it? My 500S&W wouldn't group at all with a regular rifle scope due to the recoil.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:21:33 PM »

you say you have shot a lot of different slugs through it, by any chance did you shoot a bunch of foster style rifled slugs that might have leaded up the barrel? That could (would) lead to less than great accuracy. I and many here get better groups than that with our smoothbores with a bead and inexpensive Remington Sluggers....<><....

Spanky · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:26:14 PM »

Is the forearm tight? I mean is it hard to take it on and off? If the forearm is too tight it can cause accuracy problems.
Andy is right also about the bore being leaded up causing wild accuracy.
Take the gun apart and clean it real well. Make sure there is no oil on the latch or shelf.

So do this... clean it real well and make sure the forearm isn't too tight.

Spanky

sdelam · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:31:38 PM »

I have shot a little bit of everything I think, and clean the barrel each time. I havn't seen any leading problems yet.

I have a Bushnell reddot and a bushnell 3-9x40. Each with there own rings.

I haven't tried to remove the forearm yet. I will try that when i get back to town.

spikehorn · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2010, 06:00:23 PM »

Is it a bushnell banner they should hold up to the recoil. also keep trying diffrent sobots I have a 20ga Tracker II that really likes the lightfield hybrid 2 3/4 I have a 2X Tru Glo red dot on it and at 65 yards I have shot 3 shots into 2 holes touching. When shooting from the bench are you putting the bag back next to the trigger gaurd and try shooting it with the forearm off altogether and see if that makes a diffrence. like spanking was getting at you may need to do the o ring trick

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:04:28 AM »

The scope I had on my 500 S&W had 3 rings but they were regular rifle scopes and the POI kept shifting. I took the scope off and shot a 1" group at 50. So you may try that next time at the range.

necchi · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2010, 05:54:23 PM »

I had that trouble with a 20 USH, finally figured out it didn't like high velocities.
Rem Premium Copper Solid sabots at 1500 fps gave us 2-3" groups at 100. Anything faster than that and it opened up. If I remember right the Hornady were at 2100 and it was like a 14" group!
like they say, that's my 2 cents,,but it was more like $120!! ta find out!
Federal makes a sabot round at 1400 fps but it's not a bullet, it's more like a javalin type projectile,,they did not work well.

p.s. the boy did get his deer, his 1st, with that USH. one shot, 80 yrds. The scope was a Simmons 4X 8 Point.

carbineman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 27, 2010, 03:32:21 AM »

sdelam, I haven't seen where you indicated the slug gun was 12 or 20 ga. (not that it should make a difference) Normally the USH (thick barrel) and the Tracker II or the new ULSH (thin std barrel) shoot really well. Probably the most accurate sabot shooter out there.

If you have followed all the suggestions here and read possible topics relating to your accuracy concerns, and still experience those results, you my friend have a lemon. If so I would contact H&R and put it in there lap as you have paid good money and should get results. My son can place two 3" 20 ga. Winchester Partition Golds in one hole at our range set up @75 yards with a scoped Tracker II. That is what we have come to expect from the H&R's&NEF's

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #13 on:** February 27, 2010, 04:14:46 AM »

Try the 2 3/4" Remmington BuckHammers they are a Hybred and work great for several of us who had problems with the high$$$$$$ sabots also Hastings are the same design but with them going out of bussiness i do not know if they will continue the slug line. Kurt

sdelam · « **Reply #14 on:** February 27, 2010, 03:44:30 PM »

just got home tonight, I'll play with it in the morning

And its a 20ga, thanks guys

swiftman · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2010, 08:29:43 AM »

I have a gun just like yours with the lite barrel and black plastic stock and forearm and, shoot my own reloaded sabot pistol bullets.
The last group I shot with 28rns Blue Dot and a 300grn XTP went into 3/4 inch at 100 yds my friends heavy barrel will keep these reloads into 1.5inches at 100yds. They are probably doing around 1500fps , but I don't need a elephant gun to kill a white tail deer either.

sdelam · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2010, 01:33:54 PM »

Well I went to the range today after a quick swing by Lowes for a rubber bushing. I placed the bushing between the hand guard and the forend and shot all groups with the foward bag tuching the trigger guard. I picked up a box of 2 3/4" SST's @ 1900 FPS and after rooting around I found some Rem's that were only 1500 FPS. Well $24 later I had ten shots to play with

I was very happy with the results, they were not anything great but compared to what they were before, wow. All shots were at 90 yards.

The middle group with the orange dots over them are the SSt's those were shot first. The top group is the rem's and the bottom 4 shots are some cheap Win bulk rifled slugs. Just for gee whizz. i would not call this great but there are as good as my 50 yard groups were before. they might also be a little better if i put a scope on instead of the reddot.

Any more ideas on how to shrink them a little more?

spikehorn · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2010, 01:49:24 PM »

Try the lightfields hybrid express the ones were the slug looks kinda like an hour glass, and the buck hammers

torpedoman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2010, 01:52:39 PM »

with The red dot the best group you can expect is the size of the dot at the range you are shooting.

sdelam · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2010, 01:55:05 PM »

Quote from: swiftman on February 28, 2010, 08:29:43 AM

I have a gun just like yours with the lite barrel and black plastic stock and forearm and, shoot my own reloaded sabot pistol bullets.
The last group I shot with 28rns Blue Dot and a 300grn XTP went into 3/4 inch at 100 yds my friends heavy barrel will keep these reloads into 1.5inches at 100yds. They are probably doing around 1500fps , but I don't need a elephant gun to kill a white tail deer either.

By all means share your componet lists, I dont have a shotgun shell reloader but those lee loaders are cheap and slugs are pricy. What sabots are you useing?

sdelam · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2010, 01:57:57 PM »

Quote from: torpedoman on February 28, 2010, 01:52:39 PM

with The red dot the best group you can expect is the size of the dot at the range you are shooting.

I agree but that was not the issue here, not sure what MOA the dot is supposed to be but it ony covered the X ring/ maybe 10 ring at the most at 90 yards.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2010, 02:05:02 PM »

There are other posible issues with a red dot and recoil.

They do not handle recoil the same as a scope... There is also paralax to contend with... Do you have a known good scope to put on just to try? Just to rule this out as a possible problem...

CW

trotterlg · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2010, 02:16:46 PM »

For a red dot sight it is very good. All the red dots I have tried have bad paralax problems, try yours, put the rifle in a rest and look throught the sight and move your eye from side to side and up and down and see how much the dot moves on the target. Larry

gjdykeman · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2010, 12:58:32 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg on February 28, 2010, 02:16:46 PM

For a red dot sight it is very good. All the red dots I have tried have bad paralax problems, try yours, put the rifle in a rest and look throught the sight and move your eye from side to side and up and down and see how much the dot moves on the target. Larry

Was at the range last fall, a young man was siting in his new slug gun. A new Tracker II 20g bull barrel, rifled. Beautiful gun. Thumbhole laminated stock, made me jealous. On it he had a 350.00 leopold scope and rings gunsmith installed and bore sited. He had well over 700.00 in this gun, never fired. He also had about 30 high priced sabot rounds. 50y first two shots 2" group and 6" high. He adjusted the scope and #3 was 8" high, he said I goofed. Did the scope again, 3 rounds touching 1" high, left it alone fired ten more all touching. PS he used a 200.00 lead sled for sighting. Kids with money, but I guess thats what it takes. Said he never skimps on scopes and equipment.

atitagain · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2010, 02:18:21 AM »

Here's my 2 cents.

I bought a 20ga. USH a few of years ago.
Tried a couple of higher priced sabots in it.
Higher priced have to be better and shoot better. Right? Ha! Ha!
Tried the Lightfield's.
At 50 yards, I really had to look to see that 2 slugs went through the paper.
I then shot a 2 inch , 3 shot group at 100 yards.
The following year, Lightfield doubled their prices and are now just as expensive as all the rest.

I have a Redfield, 4X (USA made) scope.
This gun will never leave my ownership till my son inherits it.

Not knowing how you are holding the gun, I will suggest or mention, that for sighting in I
never hold the stock freely against my shoulder.
I always have a small sand bag under the butt stock.
Also, if I ever have that much trouble with accuracy with any gun, I will have someone else
shoot it to make sure I'm not having a bad day.

Like I said, my 2 cents worth.

sdelam · « **Reply #25 on:** March 02, 2010, 03:55:50 PM »

After reviewing my shooting a little, here's what i came up with.

The 1'st group (SST's) were shot with a dead center hold, because these are 100yd open sight targets, the black is pretty big. It's possible that I just fudged my POA a bit. The reason I thought of this is because after measureing groups and throwing out the flyer (just how I do it), the SST's came in at 4.5". The secound group I shot was the rem's but not wanting to mix the groups I used a 12o'clock hold. This is a little more repeatabe on such a big target. That group, throwing out the flyer came in at 3". Now couple this with the fact that I'm using a red dot vs a scope, and I was in a hurry and forgot my bags so I had to use the block of wood that the range provides, perhaps the gun is shooting better than me in this case. Cant be sure I guess without another range trip. So I will try to go to the range tomorrow with my bags and try again. Whats another $20 right

. If I can get 2" groups i'll be tickled pink.

Another thing I found when I sorted brass from that trip was that I had actually fired 5 rounds of the cheap winchesters but only hit the paper 4 times, I just assumed I had only shot 4 but I had 5 empties. I also found some leading in the last few inches of the barrel when cleaning it. So I guess it is possible that I had leading problems contributing to my woes as well.

If you guys keep being so right I'll have to break out the old TC black diamond that I gave up on because I could not hit a truck at 10yards with.

spikehorn · « **Reply #26 on:** March 03, 2010, 03:38:03 AM »

TRY LIGHTFIELDS AND BUCK HAMMERS !

bobg · « **Reply #27 on:** March 03, 2010, 05:05:13 AM »

Don't forget spikehorn i still have a USH 12ga. I will make you a good deal on.

bobg

sdelam · « **Reply #28 on:** March 03, 2010, 03:24:14 PM »

Well I could not find any buck hammers so i went with the SST's and 1500 FPS Rem's. I went back to the 90yd range and tried the rem's first. The first 2 shots where within 1.5 inches of each other. Whoo hoo. So I went to the SST's. The first shot was about 6" high, the next shot was 2" left, the third was 1" right. hmmm

So I moved to the fifty and this is where it gets odd. I went back to the Rem's and they were all over the place. So I went to the SST's and put two shots within 2".

I was using a rear bag and a 3" bullseye which was the same size as the dot at 90 yds. Not to make excuses but it was getting late and the light was fadeing. I could switched to a green dot for less bleed out of the dot but I didnt want change anything mid testing.

I guess it will take another trip, maybe by next deer season it will be ready.

i did notice that the bore was really dirty, can the plastic sabots foul the rifleing?

Spanky · « **Reply #29 on:** March 03, 2010, 04:43:27 PM »

Does the recoil of the gun bother you? I'm not being a jerk here but maybe you have developed a flinch. It's hard to shoot well if you're worried about the gun kicking the heck out of you. I'm not saying that's the case just something to consider. $:-\$

Spanky