44 vs 444 vs 45-70

[300grJHP]

On small to medium sized deer, does anyone of these calibers perform noticeably better than the others out to 100 yards?

thanks,
300

[v-man]

At that distance the .44 mag is stretched but will still kill them dead. The .444 kills them real dead as does the 45-70 with trapdoor loads. With hotter modern gun loads the 45-70 kills them real, real dead so I like it best of all.

[Darrell Davis]

A friend did some hunting with a .44 from a rifle.  He didn't like the results.

I don't know what he was using for bullets, but the .44 seems to find some favor over on the marlinowners forum..

If I was going out to buy for hunting, I personaly think I would go a bit bigger.

I just came home with a RUGER #1 - s in 45/70, so spent part of today ordering dies, bullet mold etc to get it up and running.

Lots of people on the marlinforum really like both the 444 and the 45/70.

If I had gone with a 444, I could have used cast bullets that I normaly use in my hand guns.

I have had a Marlin .44 and it was a lot of fun, but as said, it I was wanting a hunting rifle, I thing the bigger is better.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

[dpe.ahoy]

I've taken several mule deer with the 44 mag, using Hornady 240 gr XTP's and have had excellent results with it.  Also have 444's and 45-70's, all three will drop yer deer inside 100 yds.  The 2  bigger ones will do it farther, but no better inside 100 yds.  DP

[Dances with Geoducks]

What I tell folks about the 45-70 is:

They dont webble, they dont wobble, they just fall down

Dead

[Swampman]

The .45-70 is where it's at.

[Old Grizz]

I agree with Swampy, the 45-70 is the way to go.

[Badnews Bob]

Never used a .444 but I do use the other two. Inside of about 150 yards they both work great no real diffrence, Dead is Dead. The .444 I am sure would perform the same. I do however prefer my .45-70 But for no good reason other than I like it.

[Flashole]

If it is just deer and  100 yards or less, all will work fine.  I own all three but my 45-70 has no claim to game yet.  If recoil is an issue the 44 will work best for you.  If you do not hand load I would think there are more ammo choices with the 44 also.  If you ever think there is the chance you would hunt some thing bigger then the 45-70 is by far a better pick.  If you think you may reload one day the 444 & 45-70 can become serious short range killers for just about any thing on 4 feet.   I load my own and if I had to keep just one it would be my 444.  It comes up a little short of the 45-70 in over all performance but just happens to my favorite.
Here is some info on the 444 that got me started on lever action guns in the first place.

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-a=sp051ea000&sp-f=iso-8859-1&sp-q=444&submit=Go%21

=FLASH=

[Redhawk1]

I have owned all three and the 45-70 is the way to go, you can load it down, and then you can load it way up.... I owns 3 45-70 Marlin's 2 guide guns and a old 22 inch barreled 45-70.

[nomosendero]

When I use this type of round now (except in handguns) I use 45/70, a very accurate XLR.
If you look at the most versatile round, I would go with 45/70.
If talking about which round for the big stuff, 45/70, but enough of that.

But that is not your question at all. In answer to your question, all 3 will snatch the feet out from under small to medium sized Deer out to 100yds. (your question) with ease. I have seen a bunch of Deer killed with all 3, I mean a bunch & the bullet has more to do with it than the round. I have seen several bang flops with the 45/70, but the 444 is a kick butt round for Deer, it appears the bullets in a couple of loads are a little more destructive than most .458 bullets, but it's not worth arguing, the end result is the same.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot a few deer with all of them. Id have to say that for a thin skinned light boned animal like a deer i doubt if youd be able to tell which it was hit with at under a 100 yards. All will knock the cork out of a deer. When the animals get larger and bigger boned the 444 and the 4570 come into there own. They seem to hit the bigger animals a bit harder but then after saying that the quickest kill ive made on a buffalo came with a 250 grain cast bullet out of a 44 mag handgun. That buffalo weighted 1100 lbs and dropped like a sack of potatoes. I dont know what would happen though if you could do a controled test on say 10 animals each with each gun. I would guess the bigger guns would win out in a test like that. Keep in mind that the biggest animals on earth have been taken with a 44 mag using proper loads so a whitetail deer is sure not going to be an issue

[Mikey]

300:  for what you want, either of the three calibers will wortk equally as well for you within the distances specified and actually, out farther. 

From the 44 and the 444, you do not have to move heavy slugs faster to get them to perform as they should.  In these two calibers, heavy for the bore slugs at medium velocities become game killers out of all proportion to their caliber.  The 45-70 is always a excellent choice but if you favor the 43 bore, either of the first two will suffice. 

All you need the bullet to do is penetrate through to the vital organs.  Heavy 44/444 slugs will give you that and more at just moderate velocities and out a lot farther than you might think.

Marlin rifles in 44 Magnum or 444 Marlin, whether using a microgroove barrel or a 6 groove barrel, should be bore lapped (either Veral Smith or Beartooth Bullets approach) so as to shoot cast slugs more accurately than many bolt rifles.  A 43 bore 300gn cast, gas checked LBT or Beartooth slug at just moderate velocities will drop right through a Whitetail at 200 yds; the 45-70 with the same weight bullet will perform the same.

The choice of caliber is yours.  jmtcw.

[bubba.50]

i killed six deer with the marlin 44mag i had using(experts-get ready to gasp) 180 jhp factory loads. average range about 75yds. all were one-shot kills on standing or walking deer, 1-spine shot, 4-neck shot, 1 shot from above in the back of the head. i guess what i'm sayin' is a lot depends on the shot and the shooter. know your limitations and all will work well. my two cents worth, bubba.

[Canuck Bob]

I carried the 444 Marlin for many years in the Canadian west, mountains, bush, willow swamps in grizzly country.  I think it is the best big bore out there.  The new Hornady Spire point bullets add a good 50 yards.  My last Moose was shot with a stout 265 grain load at 175 yards along a cutline, big bodied bull with 50+ spread.  Deadly results.

All the big bore calibers you list will kill deer without turning a whole quarter into dog food like a rocketing spitzer bullet will.  Personally I carried a 44 mag in Ruger's old semiauto, sure wish I never sold that gun!  I would pick a 30/30 lever carbine over the 44 mag any day for deer or black bear.

With the 45/70 my only concern would be kick.  Load a 320 grain bullet in a stout 444 and it KICKS.  Factory 265 loads are within reason for any hunter willing to train a bit.  Load a 45/70 with a 400-450 grain bullet in a strong rifle and it is just too much for comfort.  Develop a bad flinch and then it doesn't matter what you shoot, the safest deer will be right in  front of you.

[eastbank]

i own all three, 44mag (lever,bolt action),444marlin(lever) and 45-70(single shots) and i have killed deer with all of them and used with in common sense range and the proper bullet will kill most any thing in the USA.weight is important to me as i hunt in hard terrain and dictates what i carry on any given hunt. eastbank.

[Drilling Man]

  I agree that all three are enough for rib shots on deer at any reasonable range, but there's no doubt in my mind that speed kills "faster", and that means with "factory loads" the .444 out performs the others.  If you speed the 45/70 up, then the advantage the .444 has, goes away.

  DM

[eastbank]

the only thing i know for sure is that a 300-400gr bullet out of a light weight 444marlin or 45-70 at 2200-2400fps kills on both ends, and with the right bullet will kill any on this world. i love the colors black and blue,just not on my shoulder. eastbank.

[Flashole]

Eastbank

Those are some of my favorite colors also and they look even better when you mix in a little purple and yellow a few days later.  My light weight Win 94 in 444 with a hot load of 330gr hard cast from Bearthooth give me some thing to look at for several days

[Mikey]

Eastbank, Flashole:  Guys, think PAST Recoil Shield (and a Creedmoor Shooting Jacket) if you're going to shoot the 444 a lot and you feel pretty good after a good range session.  Often just the shield works well enough to check scope sightings and the like but if you are seriously going to work that 444 with those heavy loads you simply have to protect yoruself.  But it is soooo good.   

Flash - I have a 26" 94AE in 444 with a full length mag tube and a Lyman #2 Tang Sight that just loves the Beartooth 330 and 335 gn slugs.  My 20" pistol grip Tradional Rifle (with a microgroove barrel) seems to prefer the 300 gn slugs, by about 1/4" at 100 yds. and at near 2300'/sec I call them my 'Bacon Makers'... I still have some of their 405 gn slugs but have not yet tried them. 

The only 94 in 444 I have not yet hunted with is my Timber Carbine, but it's time is comin'......

[Swampman]

Now that I've had a chance to do more work with the .444, I've changed my mind.  It shoots as flat as a .308 out to 300 yards.  I would let my .45-70 go but the .444 isn't going anywhere.

[mechanic]

I had an uncle, (long dead), who poached deer regularly with a 22LR pistol.  Proper bullet placement makes most everything else academic.  If a 44 mag. won't kill a deer, then all those Kentucky rifles in 45 won't either........

As for me, the 45-70 because I like it.

[Flashole]

Mikey
 Got the Past about the time I started stepping up to the heavy loads with my 20'AE.  Makes the trip to the range much better.  It even cut the size of my groups down to about 1 1/2" My eyes are not aging well and I mounted  a compact Bushnell  1.75 x 4  I had been using the Nosler Partition 250gr  but when I started taking it elk hunting I went to the 330s.  Sad to say no elk and no kills with the heavy bullets.  The 94 was my first lever action and  I have added 6 more to the collection.  It would be the last one to go if I had to give some up.

I still remember the day at the range when  bit of a smartalic made a coment about my cute little 30/30 at least that is what he thought it was.  One shot later and a banged up eye socket changed his mind about lever actions.

[Mikey]

Flash:  those heavy slugs in the 444 work like you wouldn't believe.  The first time I took them hunting, with my long barrelled rifle I harvested a 380 lb Boar and a 800 lb cow Elk.  The boar was taken at about 75 yds with a shot behind the head that exited through the right shoulder - butcher said I lost about a 5 lb roast.  The Elk was taken at about the same distance with one shot through the heart/lungs - I could see the entry wound on her chest.

Next time out I took the pistol gripped 20" traditional rifle using the Beartooth 300 gn loads.  Two hogs, a boar and a sow, one shot each at about 80 yds.

The heavy for the bore slugs in the 444 put them down hard, and quick.  They work extremely well. 

[dpe.ahoy]

Swampman, ya suprised me!   I prefer the 444 over the 45-70, but feel as though I'm in the minority.   It'll do ANY thing you want to do in North America, probably the world.   Welcome to the bright side.   DP

[kevinsmith5]

 A lot depends on whetehr the OP reloads or not. If he doesn't then we also need to know how much he wants to spend on ammo.

If he reloads - 45-70 all the way. It is far and away the most flexible of the three cartridges. My 45-70 BC has taken everything from rabbits (150 gr collarbuttons over TrailBoss) to 500 pound feral hogs (420 gr and 550 gr loads) and I've rung the 1000 yard gong at the range quite a few times.

If he doesn't reload and is willing to spend some cash on ammo (like Buffalo Bore) then they're all still choices but if you're gonna spend that much on ammo, buy reloading equipment (IMHO).

If he doesn't reload and wants to spend Walmart special costs on ammo then he needs the .444. The factory ammo for it is hotter than off the shelf 45-70 or .44 mag loads by far.

[Capt Gary]

Go with the 45/70. You will never be sorry. It's a great old round with lots of history that just keeps getting better with new bullets and new powders.

I have a TC Encore with the 20" Katadin barrel in 45/70 that out shoots both my 7mm Rem Mag and my .300 Win mag. barrel with almost every load I try in it.
It loves to shoot the factory Hornady .300gr ammo. And deer hit with it are DRT.

[Dixie Dude]

Had a friend of mine kill a 9 point buck at 192 measured yards with a .44 mag when he was about 17.  He was hunting with his dad, and had just sat down on a log when the deer came out onto a field.  My friend popped up with his .44 Ruger and he said he aimed about a foot high above his rear end.  He said the deer dropped immediately.  His dad dropped his can of vienna sausage and dropped his jaw.  He said the bullet entered about 2" from the deers rectum and was found in his neck.  It followed the spine.  I don't know what bullet weight he used, but he said he wouldn't take a shot like that as an adult.  His dad did teach him to be a good shot though.  He is quick and can shoot consistantly in the 90's on sporting clays. 

[.Dirty-.30]

My opinion, which isn't worth much  is either cartridge of the 3 shown will get the job done. Piss poor shooting by the shooter, has done more to hurt some cartridges. The day I shoot a deer in the vitals with a .44 and the deer doesn't die, I'll take up golf    Or do like I have done and just buy all 3 of the calibers     .DT

[Austin1]

Now that I've had a chance to do more work with the .444, I've changed my mind.  It shoots as flat as a .308 out to 300 yards.  I would let my .45-70 go but the .444 isn't going anywhere.

Now your talking just something about the .444 but they are so close the .444 and 45/70 now I am just going on Beer can shooting at 200yds but I would give it to the .444 just seems flatter shooting to me? Both loaded with warm too hot 300 gr bullets both cast and factory jacketed slugs. All in Marlin rifles shot from standing to a truck hood rest 
But they are both a joke compared to my .375H&H loaded with 300 spitzers going 2600fps+ it does shoot really flat just like a  180 gr 06, no way a .444 will shot like a .308 unless your shooting round nose 200 gr bullets out of that .308 and they are loaded down to say 2200fps.
I like the .444 and will get one soon as I have 2 45/70s, but it aint gona shoot as flat as my 08 or it's big sister the 06.
I have shot too many gophers to find that one out!