45-70 reamed for 45-120

[oldsoldja]

anyone done this?

[cwlongshot]

Yup,
 WELCOME!!

 There is a number of brave souls that have done this!!

Atlaw, Quick, Tekmpster....

CW

[oldsoldja]

i just bought one thats reamed already, Il have to vise it to a bench and pull the trigger with a wire first.

[quickdtoo]

Search is your friend, type in 45-120 uncheck check all and then click Choose a board to search in, or search all
select just this forum from the list, you'll  get 8 pages of discussions on it. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=search

[AtlLaw]

anyone done this?

U kiddin ain't cha boy?   

 

[Swampman]

IMO unless you are using blackpowder the .45-90 is a much better choice.  You can still shoot .45-70 ammo and the .45-90 brass is cheap.

[041gun]

The good thing about the 45-120 is you can load it up to the 450 Nitro express 

and no need to put in a vice and use the wire routine just shoot the thing and you'll either be a convert or a nah sayer like some as for me I'm a convert

[NickSS]

I did this years ago with a Browning 45-70.  The rifle in 45-70 was a nice accurate rifle but I wanted more power with black powder for hunting so I had it reamed to 45-120 and loaded it up with 110 gr of black powder and a 500 gr bullet.  Result was instant pain in my neck and shoulder.  It was not fun to shoot.  Now if you load it to 450 nitro express levels your pain will increase more.  Of course there are some who are masochistic and enjoy pain.  As for me the only rifle that I shot in 45-120 that did not beat me up weighed in at 14 pounds and it still was not fun to shoot from a bench rest.  The old buffalo hunters ordered rifles that weighed 16 pounds for a reason.

[LONGTOM]

Just wondering why most shooters that ream out to 120 want to use the heavy bullets when it is proven that a 300 grain will shoot through almost all animals?
I have yet to find a deer or a black bear (the largest animal I am likely to find here in VA) that a factory 300 won't go clear through.
I look at it differently.
I want the 120 for two reasons.
1- to be able to drive a 300 at much higher velocity therefore giving me a flatter trajectory with smokeless powder.
2- to be able to take a 300 grain bullet loaded with BP and be able to at least equal factory velocity of the smokeless 300s.
An added advantage to the 300s is that you can drive them much faster and still not get beat around by them shoulder wise.
Just my reasons for the 120.



LONGTOM

[Swampman]

If you are gonna use 300 grainers then you may as well stick with a .44 Mag.

[gcrank1]

Dont 'vise to a bench' a heavy kicker, it needs to give with the recoil or things WILL break.

[oldsoldja]

IMO unless you are using blackpowder the .45-90 is a much better choice.  You can still shoot .45-70 ammo and the .45-90 brass is cheap.

Are you saying dont ever shoot 45-70 thru a 45-120?
if so is 45-90 ok thru 120 also then.
I know what you mean about being cost conscious and my wife gets on me about that too. But when I rarely get to the quarry to play I like some firepower for pure satisfaction. I was used to shooting a military b.a.r. and unloading 20x 30-06 as fast as you could pull the trigger. It was exhilarating. I sold the bar and got enough out of it to buy at least 12 handi's and a big pile of ammo. So now the ammo will last much longer, im doing my part now in reserving the supply of lead.

[oldsoldja]

Dont 'vise to a bench' a heavy kicker, it needs to give with the recoil or things WILL break.

I was kidding, Ill shoot it first and try it and then it will be the turret of my remote control tiger tank.

[LONGTOM]

If you are gonna use 300 grainers then you may as well stick with a .44 Mag.

I really don't think the 44 mag can stick with the 120.

Out of a 44mag 300gr let's use a MV of 1650fps
This should be doable out of a 22" barrel
Out of the 120 300gr let's use a MV of 2200fps
can easily do more we know

Below is what my manuals come up with.

44 mag   1650fps muzzle velocity
300gr             100yd      200yd -O-    300yd
trajectory        +6.8"         -O-          -24.6"
velocity           1500         1397         1291
energy            1534         1301         1111

45-120   2200fps muzzle velocity
300gr              100yd      200yd -O-   300yd
trajectory         +3.5"       -O-           -13.6"
velocity            2029       1868           1718
energy             2744       2327           1968

I think this answers my reasoning.



LONGTOM

[cult .44]

Won't a regular ol' .45-70 push a 300 gr bullet to 2200 fps without too much strain, at least not from a Handi?

[Swampman]

Yep and the light .45-70 bullets defeat the purpose of the cartridge.

[LONGTOM]

I just don't see how the light bullets defeat the cartridge.
If it goes clear through with expansion, what more could you ask for.
Dead is dead!
Yes the 70 will do all that except when it comes to loading BP.
I haven't gone down that road yet but I am not sure you can get factory smokeless velocities using BP in the 70 case.
I may be wrong on that.

Don't get me wrong on the heavy bullets.
Lord knows they will get the job (any job) done but I like taking some of the guess work out of the hold over at longer distances if the need arises.



LONGTOM

[Swampman]

For me the recoil spike with the light bullets is so painful I just don't want to shoot them.  The 405s just push like a muzzleloader.

[gcrank1]

I dont have a 45-70 but several freinds do. They shoot smokeless to BP loads with plain base lead to jacketed bullets with success. The gun, if capable to withstand the pressures of a 45-120 top loaded will also handle a similar pressured smokeless powder load in a 45-70 case. The gun is the same launch platform.
The case need only hold enough of the propellant to meet the parameters of the required load. Any extra cartridge space is wasted. The 45-120 will hold the BP to achieve that. If all you are going to shoot is smokeless you do not need that capacity. There are a number of smokeless powders that will achieve the velocities being discussed here. Note that the 'smaller' case will have higher pressures at a lower charge weight than the extra volume cases, so work up loads carefully.
I would start with the 45-70 case and bullet of choice and see what it (and I) am capable of before doing any rechambering. BTW, I too think that long case is 'sexy', but like so many things in life,'a mans got to know his limitations'.

[AtlLaw]

Well boys.... this thread and others like it got me thinking...    I know, I know, y'all don't have to say it... I get to thinkin and next thing ya know I be pontificating... 

But it seems that every time we start talking about that grand, fun, 45-120 ca-tridge people start talking about what you need or don't need, wasted space, what the 45-70 can do and on and on andonandonandonandon.     And I'm not talking just Swampy here!

I tell ya, it's enough to make a grown man cry!     We know all that!     But it seems like most folk think that sumpin just GOT to be practical!  I mean, didn't any of you guys ever date a girl just because you never played around with one that had her first name!?     Or did you have to claim you were in love to explain the expendature of time?

And when you broke it off, the relationship that is, did you cop something like that lame "I need my space"  other then man up and say "it's was fun sweet thang, but it ain't fun no more."  Of course the "I need my space" cop out allows you to selfrightesly tell everyone, "I didn't NEED the aggrivation!"  Kind of like telling us we don't need the case space afforded by our 45-120's...   

And all y'all are right... we don't need it!  And if you young folk (anyone under 55) feel the need to justify everything you do based on logic, reason and need, well... I hope you learn as you grow older.   Me, I spent a good deal of my life with people trying to commit painfull acts upon my body.  I been in gunfights, knife fights and fistfights; I been shot, stabbed and had my butt whipped more times then I can count and I learned that life is to short and tenuous to worry about the small stuff!  If you over 55 and feel that way, well...    I hope you get a grip before it's too late!   

And even if I did need a reason other the "I want" to get a 45-120, you just can't forget the shock, awe and cool factors!     Them's some darn good reasons!  Now, wasn't all that reasonable, and imagine, we haven't compared the 45-120 to the 45-70 even once!   

[oldsoldja]

awe and cool are what I want.

[quickdtoo]

!!!!

[Swampman]

When a 327 goes the same speed as a 427 on 1/2 the gas there's a reason to ask why I'd want the bigger engine.

[gcrank1]

Warning: Soapbox
This is the USA. It is 'what you want' not just someboy elses idea of 'what you need'. Or, at least thats the way the Founding Fathers saw it.
Go for it ! What ever 'it' is in your life, and if it bites you and you like it, who am I to say anything negative about your choice.
Thanx to this forum, when someone poses a question, I often can/will respond with my side of things for consideration, but that is all, just consideration.
And at 57 Im just young enough to remember, but too old to do much about it.......

[LONGTOM]

If all I was after was just the speed I would surely stick with a short barreled 45-70 but that platform just won't do what I am looking for.
The 45-70 just won't equal a 120 when loaded with BP which is what I am after.
I have 6 or 7 45-70s to shoot factory velocity smokeless loads in.
I am after a dedicated BP gun and load that will equal the factory smokeless rounds.
That is my main reason for doing this.



LONGTOM

[LONGTOM]

When a 327 goes the same speed as a 427 on 1/2 the gas there's a reason to ask why I'd want the bigger engine.

Put each in a truck, load them down with the same load and you will have your answer.
The small engine just can't equal the bigger one when it comes to the really heavy work.
I have to many years with the small block and big block chevys in trucks towing loads that gross over 40,000 lbs.
If the small blocks would have done the job just as good I would still be running them.
I also spent many years on the tractor pulling circuit and I can tell you there is no substitute for a very large motor.  
Just remember the old racers quote
"CUBIC INCHES MAKES HORSEPOWER"


PS:
When loaded heavy the 327 WILL get about the same gas mileage as the 427.
The difference being the 427 will run away from the 327 on any hill.
Same goes for the 350 vs the 454.
And THAT'S A PROVEN FACT!!!



LONGTOM

[cult .44]

The 45-70 just won't equal a 120 when loaded with BP which is what I am after.

Okay. Makes sense.

[Swampman]

When a 327 goes the same speed as a 427 on 1/2 the gas there's a reason to ask why I'd want the bigger engine.

Put each in a truck, load them down with the same load and you will have your answer.
The small engine just can't equal the bigger one when it comes to the really heavy work.
I have to many years with the small block and big block chevys in trucks towing loads that gross over 40,000 lbs.
If the small blocks would have done the job just as good I would still be running them.
I also spent many years on the tractor pulling circuit and I can tell you there is no substitute for a very large motor.  
Just remember the old racers quote
"CUBIC INCHES MAKES HORSEPOWER"


PS:
When loaded heavy the 327 WILL get about the same gas mileage as the 427.
The difference being the 427 will run away from the 327 on any hill.
Same goes for the 350 vs the 454.
And THAT'S A PROVEN FACT!!!



LONGTOM

It seems you missed the point.

[bajabill]

IMO unless you are using blackpowder the .45-90 is a much better choice.  You can still shoot .45-70 ammo and the .45-90 brass is cheap.

back in post 6, I think there has always been agreement on this


But, Longtom,  I was looking into using BP in these cartridges and remember reading somewhere that the 45-3.25 was not a good length as a BP cartridge.  I forget the details, and since I was never considering this as a potential chambering, I did not dig too deeply into it.  I am with Swampman on this and am focusing on the 45-2.4 as a stopping point.  I have shot 777 in my 45-70 and agree it is underpowered for this application.  I don't however, feel the need to load smokeless up to about 5000+ ft-lbs of ME, which is what I would consider a respectable 45-120 to produce.  I top out at 3000 ft-lb ME in the 45-70 and know I have room to grow - If I wanted to - and I haven't.  I would expect the 24-2.4 to get me into the 4000 ft-lb range - If I wanted - and I'm not sure if I do.

I would spend some time reading in the many BP cartridge forums out there in addition, if you haven't.


Thanks guys, a few more threads on the subject, and I am going to be ordering up the reamer...  just not the johnny holmes version

[Smokin Joe]

When a 327 goes the same speed as a 427 on 1/2 the gas there's a reason to ask why I'd want the bigger engine.

Guess you're gonna have to take your .30-30 after this guy, then: