How come some years are a C&R and some aren't???

[1911crazy]

I look at the CZ50 pistol in 32acp its a C&R,  the CZ52 and CZ82 are C&R's yet the CZ70 pistol isn't whats up with that?  I just don't understand there thinking about the C&R's and there years/age.

[torpedoman]

they get C&R status only if someone asks for it and can make a good case for it to the ATF. 50 years old is an automatic relic status this is the hard part to explain to some dealers who don't know how to (or won't) read and only want to recognize what is actually on the list as C&R.

[Avyctes]

I wish someone would make a good case for more of these CZ and FEG firearms, as well as guns like the P1 which is virtually identical to the C&R P.38 with the change of the alloy frame.  The Pa63, AP7, CZ70, Polish P64, anything that is 'done with' as far as the world military/police forces are concerned and are more than a decade old and are being surplussed out as fast as firms like CAI can import them should be C&Red.  I wish businesses like SOG, Aim Surplus, Century et al were more proactive in helping to get things listed.  I'm about positive they would sell these things fantastically quicker if they were C&R listed. 

Can anyone with a C&R petition to have firearms added?  Do you have to have tons of clout to get it done?

[prairiedog555]

I have C&R licence.  Are you telling me that I can recieve ANY gun 50+ years old, even if not on list?

[offhand35]

There was an "Open Letter to all Federally licensed collectors of Curio or Relic Firearms", dated Dec 22, 2000, whose "... purpose [of this letter is] to apprise Federally licensed collectors of pertinent regulations of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). A licensed collector is a collector of curios and relics only and is licensed and regulated under the provisions of 27 CFR Part 178. To be considered a  curio or relic, a firearm must 1) have been manufactured at least 50 years ago; or 2) be certified as a curio or relic of museum interest by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum that exhibits firearms; or 3) derive a substantial amount of its monetary value from the fact that it is novel, rare, bizarre, or associated with some historical event, period, or figure. ...."

It is very clear, and I have sent copies of this letter to sellers who were skeptical, along with documentation of the age of the piece in question.  Sometimes they shipped, sometime they would not, regardless.

[MGMorden]

I have C&R licence.  Are you telling me that I can recieve ANY gun 50+ years old, even if not on list?

Yes, but with some important information:

1. The actual gun itself must be 50 years old.  Replicas or guns of the same model don't count.  The Ruger Standard model was introduced in 1949 for example (I think).   It was produced until 1977.  Even though functionally identical, only the ones made from 1949 to 1960 would be C&R.  The ones made later would not be.  Considering this, replicas also don't qualify.  If you have an absolute perfect replica of a Colt Peacemaker that was made last year, then it doesn't qualify.

2. The gun must be in ROUGHLY original configuration.  "The receiver is the gun" doesn't apply to the 50 year rule, so a military Mauser that's been decked out into a nice sporter is disqualified from C&R status (it technically would become C&R again 50 years after the modifications were done, but that's difficult enough to prove that I simply would do the full paperwork with a regular dealer even if it were the case).  

What modifications are allowed gets into a grey area.  New production parts (except the receiver) that are functionally and visually close to the original seem to be OK (ie, replacement screws, or even a replacement stock if it's modeled after the original military model), while others (sporter stocks, scope mounts, etc) are not.

One important note too: you're SUPPOSED to log any C&R firearm that comes into your possession, whether you used your C&R license to acquire it or not.  So by law, if you have bought 50+ year old guns using a regular dealer in the past and haven't logged them, then you technically have a problem.  I'm not sure that they really enforce that to any degree though.

[ultramag44]

There was an "Open Letter to all Federally licensed collectors of Curio or Relic Firearms", dated Dec 22, 2000, whose "... purpose [of this letter is] to apprise Federally licensed collectors of pertinent regulations of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). A licensed collector is a collector of curios and relics only and is licensed and regulated under the provisions of 27 CFR Part 178. To be considered a  curio or relic, a firearm must 1) have been manufactured at least 50 years ago; or 2) be certified as a curio or relic of museum interest by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum that exhibits firearms; or 3) derive a substantial amount of its monetary value from the fact that it is novel, rare, bizarre, or associated with some historical event, period, or figure. ...."

It is very clear, and I have sent copies of this letter to sellers who were skeptical, along with documentation of the age of the piece in question.  Sometimes they shipped, sometime they would not, regardless.

This is true.  If a seller (or UPS) decides to 'play safe' and tell you:, (or the person your want to receive the shipment from) "No.  Have it shipped by a gun store fella." What are you going to do?  ATF isn't going to make them follow the law.  They only act if the transfer is not legal.

[KY Nabob]

Good Lord! 

Half the stuff I own was new when I bought it and now qualifies as curio or relic!

[Airsporter]

or 3) derive a substantial amount of its monetary value from the fact that it is novel, rare, bizarre, or associated with some historical event, period, or figure. ...."

Yes, there are a lot of commemorative firearms that are less than 50 years old that have been designated C&R.

[mrussel]

There was an "Open Letter to all Federally licensed collectors of Curio or Relic Firearms", dated Dec 22, 2000, whose "... purpose [of this letter is] to apprise Federally licensed collectors of pertinent regulations of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). A licensed collector is a collector of curios and relics only and is licensed and regulated under the provisions of 27 CFR Part 178. To be considered a  curio or relic, a firearm must 1) have been manufactured at least 50 years ago; or 2) be certified as a curio or relic of museum interest by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum that exhibits firearms; or 3) derive a substantial amount of its monetary value from the fact that it is novel, rare, bizarre, or associated with some historical event, period, or figure. ...."

It is very clear, and I have sent copies of this letter to sellers who were skeptical, along with documentation of the age of the piece in question.  Sometimes they shipped, sometime they would not, regardless.

This is true.  If a seller (or UPS) decides to 'play safe' and tell you:, (or the person your want to receive the shipment from) "No.  Have it shipped by a gun store fella." What are you going to do?  ATF isn't going to make them follow the law.  They only act if the transfer is not legal.

Its not so much that they wont follow the law,as they choose not to sell that way. The law only says that they MAY sell to someone with a C&R license,but they are free to choose to sell only to licensed dealers,or through licensed dealers,or only to people whose first names end with the letter R.