Why no .223 semi-auto hunting rifles/non-military?

[ba_50]

It seems to me some manufacturer should have come out with a economical semi-auto in .223 by now.  Anybody know why they haven't?

[nomosendero]

Maybe they don't see the demand.  To me the only 223 worth having is a dang accurate one & I say that because the round when not in military mode is most generally used for Varmits & Target, both of which demand precision. Yea, people just have fun with them too, but no 223 shooter I know wants to give up the Target/Varmit capabilities. To have that accuracy & also the ability to feed handloads will most likely eliminate an "ECONOMICAL" alternative.

You can buy a new DPMS AR15 with MOA capability for about $750.00 around here or a used Mini-14 that someone has given up on at a decent price. And the Mini has a varient now that shoots well although it won't hang with the better AR's. The AR is a very refined system right now, I would hate to attempt to compete with that design. If you want one to shoot sub 1/2MOA, you can get it in factory form.

It would be very hard to design and build a 223 auto with a matching performance level to be under the price of a DPMS and others on the street, so why bother?

[ba_50]

We are talking about two different purposes. I've never owned a .223, so maybe it would be a bad choice knockdown wise, for running coyotes, mostly under 200 yards that have been called in. But for seeing hits and correcting it would be a good choice.
One wouldn't need a tack driver for these shots.

If the manufacturers can come up with a $450 SPS Varmint they should be able to come out with a semi-auto in something like an accu-stock or Hogue for a lot less than $750. You don't think they would sell at $500 a rifle if it could be done? They say that firearms have peaked out in prices because people don't buy them like they used to. In my opinion they are overpriced this day and age.

Those early Mini-14's weren't accurate.

[woodchukhntr]

I think that Remington made their autoloader in .223 for a while to try to sell it to police departments.  It looks less "menacing" than the AR 15's and would be more PC to the liberals.  I don't see it in their current catalog.

[Bigeasy]

Kel-Tek SU series rifles?

[Catfish]

If by economical you mean cheap then pick up and SKS. That is the kind of quality you get for cheap. If you want quality and accuracy there are several brands of AR`s on the market that are getting rave reviews. I personally am a Rock River fan. I have 2 lowers and 4 uppers. My .204 uppers is not a RR, but it two is a tack driver with the 32 gr. Sierra bullets. The AR is my favorite coyote hunting gun.

[drdougrx]

I thought that HK made one for awhile with a wood stock...never shot one but saw quite a few.  Interesting post.

[mcwoodduck]

I thought that HK made one for awhile with a wood stock...never shot one but saw quite a few.  Interesting post.

SL7 or SL8.
Also made a 22 and 22 mag that looked sililar.
Had a front sight that make it look like an SKS.

[nomosendero]

I thought that HK made one for awhile with a wood stock...never shot one but saw quite a few.  Interesting post.

It is a nice rifle, but sure isn't economical.

[nomosendero]

Kel-Tek SU series rifles?

Bingo! I will stick to the superior AR design, but it looks good for the money.

[billy_56081]

I have several friends that have the H&K 223 sporters. Accurate yes and at 900 bucks 30 years ago economical for them. They were getting 50 to 100 dollars per fox at that time. They are still using them 30 years later and love them. None of them will part with them. Also I would consider a Mini 14 Ranch a sporter.

[Badnews Bob]

Siaga makes one.

[alsaqr]

Here you go from GunsAmerica.  A H&K model 630 in .223.  A mere $1,699 for a nice used rifle:

  http://www.gunsamerica.com/999820764/Guns/Rifles/Heckler-Koch-Rifles/Sporting-Hunting/H_K_Model_630.htm

[drdougrx]

Had an SL-8, it's a military rifle...no real sporter value. Sold it for a Bushy Varminter (the 24" with the fluted barrel).

[Daman]

Like my Mini 14. It shoots 1" at 100 yards with handloads and it shoots 20rds dang fast. My next 223 will be a Rock River Arms though.

Daman

[woodchukhntr]

You must have the world's most accurate Mini 14 unless it is one of the new ones.

[JWP58]

Its called an AR15. You can piece together an AR for under $700...

[nomosendero]

Like my Mini 14. It shoots 1" at 100 yards with handloads and it shoots 20rds dang fast. My next 223 will be a Rock River Arms though.

Daman

Is that the new Target Mini?

You won't regret the RRA AR15!! I have the 24" Varmit & it is a shooter, 1/2MOA for 5 shots with 60V-Max, 69MK, 75Hor. OTM & 77MK, among others.

[Oldshooter]

I have had a mini 14 since 72 or 3 and it is very dependable. not an accurate  rifle but will shoot M.O.M. at 100 yards.  Thats Minute of Man!    I hear rUmors of accurate mini's but i have yet to hold one myself! But I like my old Mini 14, it has never failed to load a round or shoot a round and it has seen thousands.

[ba_50]

I am wondering why everyone here ,so far, is stuck on high priced AR types?

Why not come out with a hunting style semi-auto like the old Winchester 100 for about $450-500.00 with modern cheaper producing machines, cheaper stock, better trigger? Remington has the sps varmint for that price. I think they would sell. Might as well make it in .243 too. SPS's are selling well. I wasn't impressed with the 742.

More money to be made on AR's I guess. Need some interest out there.

[nomosendero]

I am wondering why everyone here ,so far, is stuck on high priced AR types?

Why not come out with a hunting style semi-auto like the old Winchester 100 for about $450-500.00 with modern cheaper producing machines? Remington has the sps varmint for that price. I think they would sell. Might as welll make it in .243 too.

Maybe you can convince someone to make one, but I don't think so. It would be hard to produce in the price range you want.

Why are we "stuck" on AR type rifles? Because they work, that's why. I am a bolt action guy, but when it comes to 223, I sold my bolt guns when I saw how good my RRA shoots. And any rifle is a "hunting style" rifle if it works well for hunting & it fits the user. They work so well in fact that I doubt we see the rifle you ask about, I don't think it could pull enough away from the satisfied AR market.

[cjclemens]

The Mini-14 or ranch rifle is the closest thing to an economical .223 semi auto that I can think of.  However, the accuracy just isn't there.  You could accurize a Mini, but by the time you're done with that, you might as well have just bought an AR in the first place.  I put my first AR together for about $800, including optics.  To me, that's well worth it for sub-MOA accuracy out of a semi-auto.  Over the last couple years, my AR has become my go-to rifle for coyote hunting and general purpose varmint control.  If you're on a budget, I would recommend a Stevens 200 or a Handi Rifle.

[dks7895]

+1 on the Stevens 200

I wanted a Mini-14 until I found out how inaccurate they are.  For what they cost I could not justify the purchase.  I bought a Stevens 200 in .223 and love it.  I can shoot dime sized groups @ 100 yards with little effort.  I lightened the factory trigger a bit, but the rest is bone stock.

[Swampman]

Remington does make a pump .223.

[mannyrock]

  According to the bragging on the tac weapons boards, people are routinely getting 1 inch to 1.5 inch groups from their new Saiga .223s. (After mounting a scope.)

  These go for about $400 brand new.   Doesn't that fit the bill???

   Or, are these really 3 MOA rifles???

   Just askin.  :-)

Regards,

Mannyrock

[Swampman]

Isn't that a military assualt styled rifle?

[45-70.gov]

JUST  GET  AN  AR

A.....americas
R.....rifle

and  be happy.....or are you un american??

[Badnews Bob]

Isn't that a military assualt styled rifle?

Not really, It more or less uses a AK 47 style of action but with a non pistol grip sporter stock and different barrels, can be had in wood or syn.

[mannyrock]

BadNews,

   I tend to agree.  But I can also see Swampman's point.  The Saiga sport model, with 16 inch barrel and short magazine, looks fairly sporting to me, except for that tall front site (which I guess is unavoidable on a rifle with this type of action.)  Interesting question.  I guess one could totally remove the front sight, and rely soley on a scope. 

Mannyrock

[DC]

 The Mini 14 WAS, as in past tense, short on accuracy.  If you Google up the reviews by gun writers on the new target mini's, you will see a different assessment.  With a heavy 22" barrel and a harmonic dampener which is adjustable a whole new look at the Mini 14 should be taken. I, after reading them and owning both a Bushmaster and an Olympic AR, bought the Mini.  During my first outing with ok ammo, not match, I was right at an inch after tuning the barrel harmonics.  Some of the groups shot in the reviews were sub MOA.  In fact there is a You Tube demo which will blow you away. 

The new Mini 14's are accurate, very, very dependable and will serve well as a semi auto hunting rifle. I am not saying that an AR is not better or worse.  It requires much more hygene but can be accessorized with all sorts of "do dahs" which are pretty much cool to have but really don't do anything but make you spend more money.  Having said all that, the new AR's with a gas piston are miles ahead of the pre piston ones.  They don't foul as much, jam as much and don't require the cleaning efforts that most do.

I would not trade my Mini for anything!  It shoots as well as the AR's I have owed and will keep shooting after a whole lot of  rounds fired without cleaning.  My only compaint would be that it should have come with xtall scope mounts on the laminated stock model.