Why no .223 semi-auto hunting rifles/non-military?

[billy_56081]

Only problem with the H&K sporter autos is that they are no longer made. You are limited to 3 or 10 round mags and both the gun and magazines are very expensive. I have several friends that own the 223 model and love them. They are very accurate and reliable. They are also very heavy.

[JWP58]

I'm still trying to figure out whats wrong with the AR-15, and why someone wouldnt want to hunt with it?

Is it the evil blackness? Is it the BRD that you WILL catch after shooting one?

[nomosendero]

I'm still trying to figure out whats wrong with the AR-15, and why someone wouldnt want to hunt with it?

Is it the evil blackness? Is it the BRD that you WILL catch after shooting one?

In a word, nothing is wrong with it, regardless of Zumbo!!

[1911crazy]

I was never fond of the high priced black rifles which can be slamma, jamma matic's at anytime.  There track record is very far from being perfect.

Whats wrong with the new Russian Izhmash Saiga in 223 rem???  Its still under $400 price wise too. These are the battle proven designs of the AK/AKM in a sporter wrapper.  This is one awesome shooter and its accurate too.  Mine has a 16" barrel and its chrome lined which the russian guns are famous for.  Then once you shoot the saiga in 223 i'm sure you will want a saiga in 308win too.  There's a new kid on the block from Russia. I think in a semi auto rifle with the saiga your getting the most bang for your buck.  To me its the hottest buy on the planet right now without breaking the bank. If you really want a 223 semi auto for hunting or plinking this is the one.

If you want a semi auto rifle in 7,62x39 then the sks is it too.  Its a tad cheaper than the saiga.

[nomosendero]

I was never fond of the high priced black rifles which can be slamma, jamma matic's at anytime.  There track record is very far from being perfect.

Whats wrong with the new Russian Izhmash Saiga in 223 rem???  Its still under $400 price wise too. These are the battle proven designs of the AK/AKM in a sporter wrapper.  This is one awesome shooter and its accurate too.  Mine has a 16" barrel and its chrome lined which the russian guns are famous for.  Then once you shoot the saiga in 223 i'm sure you will want a saiga in 308win too.  There's a new kid on the block from Russia. I think in a semi auto rifle with the saiga your getting the most bang for your buck.  To me its the hottest buy on the planet right now without breaking the bank. If you really want a 223 semi auto for hunting or plinking this is the one.

If you want a semi auto rifle in 7,62x39 then the sks is it too.  Its a tad cheaper than the saiga.

"slamma jamma", sounds about 20 years out of date to me, I've had my RRA Varmiter for several years now with a bunch of rounds through it, no jams as yet, nor have I seen any in my brother's RRA Nat. Match RRA or my son's, nor anyone I am shooting with. As far as accuracy, each will do 1/2 MOA for 5 with select loads. I havn't seen or heard of any Saiga's on the 600 yd. line, but I could be enlightened.

I have no issues with Saiga but I do know what the properly equipped AR will do as well.

[bigbird09]

I know this is old, but I'm bored and have to post an opinion of one thing.   I have been kinda biased against the AR style recievers for a while but the more I look at them the more I would like to have one, but lastly the 700 dollar price tag will keep it out of my price range for some time.  Also on the whole assault rifle "scary menacing black stock bit" the thing that most antis don't understand is that most of them "scary black stocked guns" is that they are semi-auto,  but after the big highly televised LA shooting back in the 90's with men with full body armour and full auto AK-47 most antis think that if it looks like an assualt rifle it must be full auto,  even most guns used in todays military are not used in full auto if they even have the option.

[Swampman]

I'm still trying to figure out whats wrong with the AR-15, and why someone wouldnt want to hunt with it?

It presents a negative image to non-hunters.  It's ugly and akward.

Carried one for Uncle Sam, and owned a nice Colt for High Power matches.  They are ok for what they were designed to do.

[nomosendero]

The RRA Varmiter 24" is my fav. Varmit rifle. It shoots sub 1/2" 5 shot groups with a var. of ammo, &
bugholes with a couple of bullets. In fact they guar. 3/4" with this model. Great for Groundhogs & Coyotes & a better PD rifle cannot be found unless it would be a 204 AR. I had a M700VS in .223, but the RRA tooks it's spot, it won't be missed, but that has nothing to do with my bigger cal. M700's!  

[billy_56081]

Actually I consider the target AR's some of the best coyote rifles out there. I guess myself I really could care less about the "image" presented to non and antihunters. I just like good weapons. The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting!

[bigbird09]

I guess myself I really could care less about the "image" presented to non and antihunters. I just like good weapons. The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting!

While this is true, if the antis get there way then that is just going to give them more leverage on getting our guns.

[45-70.gov]

I guess myself I really could care less about the "image" presented to non and antihunters. I just like good weapons. The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting!

While this is true, if the antis get there way then that is just going to give them more leverage on getting our guns.

so you let them ''brow beat''  us into using guns they approve  of

then they start to thinking  they have a ''say so''

then  calling their congressman is the next step...

buy a black  gun....
use  it....
they will just have to get used to  it!!

[Swampman]

I guess myself I really could care less about the "image" presented to non and antihunters.

And there in lies the rub

I just like good weapons.

Me too but the AR isn't one.

The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting!

Nobody said we shouldn't own them, just that they aren't good for the image of gun owners, hunting, and hunters.

[billy_56081]

I guess I could care less what Swampy says too.

[nomosendero]

I can't believe anyone would believe that if an anti doesn't see a "black rifle" they would be content.
If they were outlawed the anti would IMMEDIATELY go to the next type of rifle & handgun &
guess what, then that one would have the bad "IMAGE", I can't believe folks fall for this! 

Antis want all guns taken, period, get it through your head. Just look at the States that don't allow these
guns for hunting now. Why are these States the same ones who are most anti-gun? W0W!! 
I live in a State that has no restrictions on type of gun used, mag. capacity, etc, yet few image problems,
or anti-gun sentiment. Is that complicated, hmmm!!!! 

[bigbird09]

I can't believe anyone would believe that if an anti doesn't see a "black rifle" they would be content.
If they were outlawed the anti would IMMEDIATELY go to the next type of rifle & handgun &
guess what, then that one would have the bad "IMAGE", I can't believe folks fall for this! 

Antis want all guns taken, period, get it through your head. Just look at the States that don't allow these
guns for hunting now. Why are these States the same ones who are most anti-gun? W0W!! 
I live in a State that has no restrictions on type of gun used, mag. capacity, etc, yet few image problems,
or anti-gun sentiment. Is that complicated, hmmm!!!! 

Also im sure if you look at the crime rate in those anti gun states they are some of the highest in the country   and i bet alot of crimes are still commitied with firearms remember "when guns are outlawed,  only outlaws will have guns"

[mrussel]

I'm still trying to figure out whats wrong with the AR-15, and why someone wouldnt want to hunt with it?

It presents a negative image to non-hunters.  It's ugly and akward.

Carried one for Uncle Sam, and owned a nice Colt for High Power matches.  They are ok for what they were designed to do.

 Most antis will say things like "What do you need something like that for" and then add as an after thought "You cant hunt with it" to which I reply "why not". That usually makes them think for a few seconds and then they say something stupid like "Its too powerful,it would ruin the meat". I then get to explain how one of the most common hunting rifle calibers,the 30-06 is vastly more powerful than the cartridge used in the militaries rifles. They are usually surprised,I then explain how it makes perfect sense that most hunting rifles are way more powerful than a standard rifle you give to an infantry man because they are made to take down a 1000lb elk instead of a 150lb man. I then finish it off by explaining how originally the 30-06 was a military round,similar to many similar military rounds of the time,but they learned that they were overpowered and moved away from them,to lighter smaller rifles so that a soldier could carry more equipment and ammo. I usually get the response of "really?". Many of the people that have these ideas just don't know and sometimes if you explain it,they really do understand. The fact is,if you explain to many rational people that a much heavier weapon is needed to take down a 1000lb animal than is required for a 150lb human,they will realize,that it makes too much sense to ignore.

[mrussel]

I guess myself I really could care less about the "image" presented to non and antihunters.

And there in lies the rub

I just like good weapons.

Me too but the AR isn't one.

The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting!

Nobody said we shouldn't own them, just that they aren't good for the image of gun owners, hunting, and hunters.

 I'm not about to tell someone they cant hunt with any suitable weapon,and since I know that what really makes it suitable is the cartridge not the stock,I would never tell someone not to take his scary black rifle hunting. Its a perfectly legitimate hunting weapon. In fact,military weapons have been used for hunting for years. Countless people have used Mausers or M1s or even Mosin Nagants to take game.

 I do see the point about image though,but honestly,if I want to go hunting and I decide that of all the weapons I own,a evil Dragunov sniper rifle is the most appropriate thing I have (and it would work pretty darn good) then who is to tell me that I shouldn't,when the ballistics are about like the 30-06 everyone else uses.

[Swampman]

Gun control is off topic.

[Bigeasy]

Heckler-Koch

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?94923-I-want-a-new-rifle&s=787b8a3ebbc6b1a5a109adf9f6be023e&p=2150189#post2150189

http://world.guns.ru/civil/civ022-e.htm

Bruce

Yea, but they use the "evil" G3 assault rifle roller lock action.....

Larry

[nomosendero]

Gun control is off topic.

And so was "image" that you brought up & naturally gun control followed since it is the reason for "image"
supposedly. 

[john keyes]

I was LMAO on page two. this thread became an instant classic.

 

[nomosendero]

I was LMAO on page two. this thread became an instant classic.

 

    John, good point & it is down right hilarious. Swampy is the first to bring up the Assualt Rifle BS
       & now he says it's off topic.   On record for all to see!!  

And then he brings it up again with "image"!!   

[Swampman]

Gun control is off topic.

And so was "image" that you brought up & naturally gun control followed since it is the reason for "image"
supposedly. 

No image, and "gun control" are unrelated.

[mechanic]

Just got off the phone with my brother, as I would have sworn he had a 742 or 750 remington in .223, but alas, I am mistaken, it is a .243.  Just as well, he said it makes a mini 14 look like a bench gun. 

[nomosendero]

Gun control is off topic.

And so was "image" that you brought up & naturally gun control followed since it is the reason for "image"
supposedly. 

No image, and "gun control" are unrelated.

 

[mrussel]

Gun control is off topic.

And so was "image" that you brought up & naturally gun control followed since it is the reason for "image"
supposedly. 

No image, and "gun control" are unrelated.

 How do you figure that. I don't see how you figure ANYONE would care about image,as it refers to "Scary Black Plastic Rifles" unless you are talking about gun control. Seriously,if your talking about image,in whose eyes are you talking about it and why are you worried at all about what they think. Image of such rifles is the tool that gun control advocates use to ban them,and gun control is the end result of them having such an image.

[Swampman]

To an ethical sportsman image is always important.  I'm not worried about anything.  Loss of hunting privileges.....duh!

[nomosendero]

Yea duh, now please drop the worthless dribble please.

[kevinsmith5]

If the OP is still listening, why does he specificlly want a semi-auto? A .223 bolt gun can be had cheap and tends to be more accurate than a low cost semi (the reason the AR's are so pricey is it's expensive to make an accurate semi). My single shot Handi in .223 is very accurate, as the beaver, fox, coyote, and nutria population of Eastern NC could tell you (if the ones with first hand knowledge weren't dead).

And for the record my .223 Handi has black synthetic stocks and a rubber encased mildot tactical scope with flip-up scope caps (pawn shop bargain in a military town). No one has ever complained that I am carrying a scary looking sniper rifle, though I will admit that is what it looks like.

[nomosendero]

the reason the AR's are so pricey is it's expensive to make an accurate semi

  That is true, AR or not, alot goes in to an accurate semi auto, like the FN for example. http://gunblast.com/FN-AR.htm