Author Topic: Sabots (Read 1941 times)

little seacoast · « **on:** March 01, 2010, 05:06:38 AM »

Should sabots detatch from the projectile after leaving the barrel? I was shooting some balls yesterday- 2.0 inch with a 2.23 sabot- and for the most part they stay attached and obviously tumble some. This can't help accuracy I wouldn't think. The balls are fastened to sabot with Gorilla glue. Should a weaker cement be used or perhaps a different fastening method? All shots @ 50 yards with500 grains of Cannon grade powder.

Zulu · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2010, 05:11:18 AM »

They certainly are supposed to detach. I wouldn't use glue. They should be fastened with copper strapping. Maybe you could use masking tape. I'm sure someone here will tell you what they do.
Zulu

RocklockI · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2010, 05:27:01 AM »

this is something i know a bit about the ball should definatly come free .

use only what you need to attach the ball to the sabot .

it was there in the old days to make really certain that the fuse on the shell was UP and to give the powder bag something to attatch to .

i use them as an aid to accuracy , just to keep them centered in the bore as the ball never touches the bore . they are slighly larger dia. than the ball . mine usually blow to splinters leaving the bore ,but with glue some splinters stay attached , not good .

i use tape

hope this helps ,gary

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2010, 06:36:39 AM »

I have not done any extensive testing with them yet, but did try them last summer in my 1 in gun, I used Elmers glue on lead balls and my sabots separated and were found about 10 yards down range. Elmers doesn't stick that well to lead and seemed to work pretty well.

I have been thinking about trying paper strips for banding. The strips would be glued to the sabot but not the ball.

We have a good discussion on sabots in the Gary's Sabot Post.

SLEEPY BEEPER · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2010, 07:20:05 AM »

I shoot 2 inch steel bar stubs in my cannon (Get them free). Have tried 13 different combinations of sabits to get max accuracy. I believe the gasses coming out of the cannon pass the projectile. It will try and take the sabit with it (causing tumbling). Your best bet is to have a sabit that will slide of the projectile (and pass it) without disrupting it's flight path.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2010, 07:21:39 AM »

The sabot shown in the photo looks a little too thick in proportion to the ball. I would either try to always have the ball release at the muzzle or always stay attached for consistency.

dynomike1x1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:28:27 AM »

My 2.25" balls kinda stick in my sabots, and so do my pool balls, so i dont use anything. I find parts of my sabots about 25yds. Seems like the thicker the sabot the quicker it will leave the ball.

Spuddy · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:29:09 AM »

I have used Rocklock Sabots with golf balls before. I attached them with masking tape and they stayed attached out to at least 100 yards. I think I used too much tape. The balls flew straighter without the sabots than with. The sabots were designed for the notorious fox balls, so probably a bit to heavy for golf balls. It was fun trying them though.

Will Bison · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2010, 02:10:37 PM »

I use Gorilla Glue on my sabots and they stick. Even at 1,000 plus yards the sabot and ball are tight.

Masking tape will allow separation at the muzzle. Don't over do the tape, one wrap around ball and sabot should be fine.

Bill

RocklockI · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2010, 03:02:11 PM »

Will , what sort of material do you use for your sabot ?
Gary

carronader · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2010, 06:46:23 AM »

could try the old way...........Gary I need a little plate for my toast soldiers..........your sabot is the best damn egg cup I ever had...........now ! what about my plate ?

RocklockI · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2010, 11:51:18 AM »

an eggcup !

'a little plate' for your toast soldiers .....

i'll see what i got laying around for your next 'care package' .

Spuddy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2010, 12:04:43 PM »

Hey Gary, my eggs never sat up so well as they do in your cups!

RocklockI · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2010, 12:11:07 PM »

you guys are killin me ....

Will Bison · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2010, 12:29:08 PM »

Rocklock;

I got a bunch of scrap cabinet grade plywood, 3/4 inch thick. Hole saw cuts 'em out.

Bill

little seacoast · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:05:52 AM »

Will, I've been using a fly cutter in the drill press on 1" thick poplar. It allows a "fine tuned" radius for my particular gun and keeps tooling costs down since it will cut all the diameters I need. Not the most elegant solution I know, but dirt cheap. Regards, LS
PS the main reason I'm using sabots at all is to keep from beating up the bore of my Parrott. The Fox case hardened 2" steel balls can't be drilled with anything I own and I'm afraid they'd be murder on the bore as they "bounce" down it.

Double D · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2010, 05:09:54 PM »

I recovered one sabot this afternoon. It was about 20 yards down range. These sabot were attached with one piece making tape.

GGaskill · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2010, 05:41:07 PM »

... and I'm afraid they'd be murder on the bore as they "bounce" down it.

What material is your barrel made from? If it is steel or cast iron, it's going to take an awful lot of shots to do much to it.

little seacoast · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2010, 03:35:28 AM »

GGaskill, The barrel is steel, made by Dom, don't know the specs. These 2" case hardened balls I'm using are 1/4" undersize so there's lots of room to bounce.
As to what damage they would cause, I don't know for sure and sure don't want to find out the hard way.
DD, that sabot sure looks to have taken a beating, what size is it and how much powder to fuzz the butt like that?

dan610324 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2010, 06:36:07 AM »

could it be one of garys sabbots ??
if so he knows what charge he used

Double D · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2010, 06:48:08 AM »

Quote from: little seacoast on March 21, 2010, 03:35:28 AM

DD, that sabot sure looks to have taken a beating, what size is it and how much powder to fuzz the butt like that?

They are 1 inch diameter cut from a dowel. 185 grains of Fg in a foil cartridge. 1 inch lead round ball.

Double D · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2010, 07:08:35 PM »

I broke the recovered sabot apart and noticed something interesting.

Sot or charring is blown up inside the fibers of the wood. I wonder if the expanding gases are expanding the fibers of the sabot and making a bet seal?

jeeper1 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2010, 07:58:54 PM »

That shows just how porous the grain of the wood is and just how much pressure there is pushing the load out.
I agree that the way the base of the sabot is spread that there was a lot less blow by that without the sabot.

dan610324 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 22, 2010, 05:00:43 AM »

thats very interesting info

the bottom isnt flat any more and the radius is everything but radius shaped now

what kind of wood was it ??
maybe it would be better to use a harder wood

RocklockI · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2010, 05:15:03 AM »

Mine do the same thing . Poplar and pine .

I think they are basicly crushed to death upon ignition . I shot some golf balls with them ,and if recoved the sabots could be reused , I dont think I ever broke one with a GB . Just not enough resistance on the GB side of things .

Of couse it's abit wastfull of a sabot .

1Southpaw · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2010, 06:12:48 AM »

Be interesting to see what a concave on each end would produce . Perhaps a better seal and less powder used for same range.

Edit : would the forward pressure of sabot not pickup the ball and center it in tube/sabot as it passes down the tube. ? If so , why glue or tape ?
Not a cannon shooter so don't have a clue about sabots and their behaviour .
If a negative elevation I can see where the ball would roll out . Perhaps a wad of bubble gum as a sticky.
How about the stuff as advertised on tv that hangs pictures on the wall but is easily removable .
"Peel and seal " or is it "seal and peel " winter window sealant . it seems to peel easily off come spring .

RocklockI · « **Reply #26 on:** March 23, 2010, 11:05:59 AM »

What if you loaded the gun normaly powder wise ,then put in a 1.5 bore dia. wooden dowel into the bore
flat on both sides ....then you put a baggie with some water in it or lightly inflated water balloon into the tube .....then you load the ball with sabot on top .

the idea is that upon ignition a tight seal is produced 'hydrulicly' (sp) but with nothing that would expand SEAL the bore like soggy newspaper....?

Just a tight moving slug of wood water bag and ball . or a jatmsowwbabb-el

Gary

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #27 on:** March 23, 2010, 01:25:09 PM »

Some problems with that.

A fluid, liquid will transpose the pressure on the bottom of it's container with equal pressure all around.

When I first started shooting a beercan mortar, I filled them with water.

Light charges were OK, but when the charges were increased the water pressure would bulge the can out - scraping the inside of the bore. A little more and the can would split.

RocklockI · « **Reply #28 on:** March 23, 2010, 03:37:46 PM »

I'm talking about two wooden sides with a water slug in between . I am counting on its transposing equal pressure all around to seal the bore .
Gary

GGaskill · « **Reply #29 on:** March 23, 2010, 08:05:18 PM »

I think the friction between the bag and bore walls would abrade the bag such that it would burst.