Author Topic: A Holocaust Survivor's View on Islam (Read 4113 times)

steve y · « **Reply #60 on:** March 06, 2010, 05:40:36 PM »

Powderman. I got all that. I'm just trying to follow the reasoning of TeamNelsons point of view on this subject. I don't understand some of the things people say about certain subjects. That's why I replied in the manner that I did. Just trying to understand how someone arrived at the conclusion that they did. Steve

teamnelson · « **Reply #61 on:** March 06, 2010, 06:03:17 PM »

They targeted symbolic sites, not population centers. If they wanted people they had better options.
Know your enemy gents, don't just read the tabloids.

Heck, I'm a prior marine intel type who speaks Arabic, Iraqi and has been working both levels of the war since 91. Lived in a few dozen Muslim countries ... Still working in the field. I've actually personally met some Al Qaeda members. I get paid to know this stuff ... but hey, I could be wrong.

nomosendero · « **Reply #62 on:** March 06, 2010, 06:22:30 PM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on March 06, 2010, 06:03:17 PM

They targeted symbolic sites, not population centers. If they wanted people they had better options.
Know your enemy gents, don't just read the tabloids.

Heck, I'm a prior marine intel type who speaks Arabic, Iraqi and has been working both levels of the war since 91. Lived in a few dozen Muslim countrys ... Still working in the field. I've actually personally met some Al Qaeda members. I get paid to know this stuff, but y'all must know better. Maybe I should come work your job and you come work mine?

I agree that it was "they" that targeted & not "we".
I agree that they wanted to hit symbolic sites, but killing alot of people certainly increased the "terror" & panic factor, great tools for them. If pure symbolic sites were the priority, they could have hit The Statue of Liberty or other equally "symbolic" sites & killed alot fewer people.
But you got to watch that "I've personally met some Al Qaeda members" stuff because some folks on this site do not believe they exist.

teamnelson · « **Reply #63 on:** March 06, 2010, 06:31:05 PM »

An arabic speaking chaplain (prior SSgt) out on the raggedy edge with Marine infantry is a force multiplier, so I put a few miles on my boots walking with my guys to scout out mosques in our sector. Most of them were insurgent led; had a nice public chat with one dude out on a main street and he was afraid we were going to puc him. Got a by name mention on an insurgent site later ... way cool. I've also had a fatwa on me.

No denying the value of population for fear factor, but many seem to think that they want to exterminate the US and Christians. Not so, they want to break our will and spirit; they want us to convert; they want us to throw off the chains of our oppressors and join with them in the worldwide Islamic theocracy. Mainly they want us out of their backyard, the rest just preaches well to the disenfranchised.

If we really sincerely plan on engaging Islam, the battlefield is not where we are going to win. Its a culture war, and if we don't tighten up our culture, we will be assimilated, if not by them, then somebody else. I personally don't think Islam is the real threat, and I've been toe to toe with it for nearly 2 decades.

steve y · « **Reply #64 on:** March 06, 2010, 06:44:09 PM »

Hitting the Pentagon is certainly symbolic but the towers represented both symbolism and mass casualties. There is no doubt that they will attempt an even bigger mass casualty event. If they don't have nuclear capability then they certainly must be persuing it. Iran may be contributing to it who knows but they are a different animal (nation state). My feeling is that the sybolism event has run it's course and they will try for a body count. TeamNelson if you really are a Marine intel type God bless and thank you for your service. Steve

teamnelson · « **Reply #65 on:** March 06, 2010, 07:08:33 PM »

steve, I did a lot of things in my impetuous youth, including 12 years enlisted. Now I'm an old, slow Chaplain who did two combat tours to Iraq with 2/3 Marines from 2006-2008, and currently serves with a group of folks who can't talk about what they do, but save our lives everyday. Its my honor to be used by God in this way, and if He's hearing my prayers, he'll send me back out with the boys next tour.

Squib · « **Reply #66 on:** March 06, 2010, 08:19:11 PM »

Quote from: steve y on March 06, 2010, 01:05:22 PM

That is interesting. Where did he say those words? Was it a press conference, paper, internet, interview or something else? When I see words like "I don't have a problem with the American people just the system" our system of government is the American people. Even though we have politicians that don't have our best interest at heart and are self serving. Even though I can not stand anyone like obama, pelosi, reid, clinton etc. If they were attacked by islamic whomevers they didn't attack our system they attacked us. We the people are the government ultimately. I know the reality and the perception but that is how our founders set it up. I guess you can liken it to a family, we fight amongst ourselves but when one of us is attacked by someone from the outside we band together to defeat them. Now having said all that I believe we would not have near the trouble that we do if we would just stay out of the affairs of others. Bring all the troops home and defend our borders. Steve

that's the mobilization of the populace through threat of war and fear that the third way advocates, aka progressivism

Dee · « **Reply #67 on:** March 07, 2010, 02:34:48 AM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on March 06, 2010, 06:31:05 PM

An arabic speaking chaplain (prior SSgt) out on the raggedy edge with Marine infantry is a force multiplier, so I put a few miles on my boots walking with my guys to scout out mosques in our sector. Most of them were insurgent led; had a nice public chat with one dude out on a main street and he was afraid we were going to puc him. Got a by name mention on an insurgent site later ... way cool. I've also had a fatwa on me.

No denying the value of population for fear factor, but many seem to think that they want to exterminate the US and Christians. Not so, they want to break our will and spirit; they want us to convert; they want us to throw off the chains of our oppressors and join with them in the worldwide Islamic theocracy. Mainly they want us out of their backyard, the rest just preaches well to the disenfranchised.

If we really sincerely plan on engaging Islam, the battlefield is not where we are going to win. Its a culture war, and if we don't tighten up our culture, we will be assimilated, if not by them, then somebody else. I personally don't think Islam is the real threat, and I've been toe to toe with it for nearly 2 decades.

TN, you say you are a Chaplin, and I believe a PROFESSOR OF CHRIST AND THE CROSS. How can a Pastor, or Evangelist, or Chaplin (CHRISTIAN) or even a Sunday School teacher make such a remark as: I personally don't think Islam is the real threat, and I've been toe toe with it for nearly two decades.
Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet, and is leading millions of folks not only to jihad, but HELL. Thousands of Americans are converting to Islam, and are thereby hell bound on a bobsled. I have never heard a Preacher totally dedicated to Christ at the Cross make such a proclamation, and would question their dedication to the Cross if a statement concerning a false religion were made.
If you believe the Bible, and lineage of Abraham, since Ishmael, you would know that Ishmael and ll his lineage are warriors destined to try and wipe out the seed of the covenant of Abraham. It is the sole reason he and his mother Hagar were driven from Abraham's camp, and it has been constantly growing since the DAYS OF ABRAHAM & ISHMAEL.
Oh yes, it's a very serious problems alright. Perhaps you have begun to rely on your education too much, and have put the teachings of God to a little less seriousness on this issue of the Muslim. God warned of the Arab, and called them by name, and said they would be at odds with all men, and would be among us, and would be of fierce contenence.
Now let me say that I am not judgeing your heart but, am judging your judgement on this issue in advserse to Biblibal teaching.

teamnelson · « **Reply #68 on:** March 07, 2010, 07:00:29 AM »

Dee, Jesus didn't come to save us from Islam, but from sin. Rome had conquered the world with pagan idolatry and syncretism, and yet He left Rome alone and conquered the real threat - sin and death. While He did that He also taught us to love our enemies and to bless those who persecute you. Not long after He ascended, maybe less than 40 years by some accounts, Rome fell ... from the inside.

I'm not called to warn the world against the evils of Islam, but rather the evil of sin in our own hearts. The lust of the eyes, flesh and pride of life. And to call sinners to repentance in faith in Christ alone, and to walk in the light.

Islam is an empty hollow religion full of hate and violence, like all religions, like even Christianity can be ... bur faith is different than religion, and I am called as a pastor/teacher to build up the people of faith.

Islam is not the threat, sin is. Islam is a tool of Satan to keep men lost, to take glory away from God and to fill the Christian church with hate and fear so that we do not fulfill the great commission. After years of bearing the sword for my country, in Muslim lands, learning the language, culture, religion of the enemy, I went to live there with my family for years as missionaries. God is building His church of followers of Christ in the middle of the axis of terror; I've discipled pastors, worshipped with small groups. God is raising them up to shine His light from the inside out, and like Rome they will collapse from the inside out.

teamnelson · « **Reply #69 on:** March 07, 2010, 07:13:21 AM »

Got cut off ...

Pastoring here in the US has only confirmed in my mind the reality that sin is the real threat. Our Christian culture is being assimilated ... no true believers are falling away into apostasy. Those churchgoers who have "converted" to Islam were never His, and didn't know better because Pastors were tickling their ears, not making disciples. 90% of pastors in the US claim spiritual maturity is the number one problem in the church today. Well whose fault is that, pastors? Why are we filling our churches with false hope in your best life now, or false fear of Islam, when the real threat is in their hearts?!? The real hope is Christ alone ... our culture will be assimilated because we've become experts on how bad everyone (Islam) is and overlooking how bad we are. Dee, you've said it yourself, abortion has killed more people than Islam in the us. What's the threat behind it? or porn, or socialism ... It's the heart of the American people, desperately wicked, in need of a savior.

Dee · « **Reply #70 on:** March 07, 2010, 07:31:42 AM »

Islam is a spiritual trap laid by the Devil, and is a false teaching that has conveniently included Christ, as a lessor of than Allah, to draw folks into the cult. It needs to be preached about SPECIFICALLY, not PASSIVELY. God did tell us not to judge the sinner, but to judge the sin, and the sin of Islam has been judged. This is not something true Christian should ignore. Folks have become too politically correct to point and say: Hey! That is wrong, and it is dangerous. I have not. If Abraham had not CONFRONTED EVIL, AND TOOK IT ON, AND DESTROYED IT, his cousin Job would not have been much of a story in the Bible. We will not agree on this issue.

teamnelson · « **Reply #71 on:** March 07, 2010, 07:40:28 AM »

Dee, we in fact do agree. I've given hundreds of classes in churches all over the US on Islam, its teachings, its appeal, and how to counter it from scripture. But what ive found is most christians don't know what they believe enough to even do that, so you have to go back to the basics. And by the way, Abraham never destroyed evil ... Christ did.

But you said it yourself, its a trap laid by the devil. Is it the only trap? Or is it just a new version of the same old trap? And is the trap the real threat, or the one who laid it down?

The loaded gun in my drawer is considered a threat by many who preach against it on tv, in campaigns, and even from pulpits. Its a threat to children, and society at large, they say. And that has subsequently distracted society away from real issues, like crime.

Overemphasizing the significance of Islam is a distraction to the purpose of the church Christ gave us, and perhaps that's where we disagree.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #72 on:** March 07, 2010, 07:48:41 AM »

Quote from: Dee on March 07, 2010, 07:31:42 AM

Islam is a spiritual trap laid by the Devil, and is a false teaching that has conveniently included Christ, as a lessor of than Allah, to draw folks into the cult. It needs to be preached about SPECIFICALLY, not PASSIVELY. God did tell us not to judge the sinner, but to judge the sin, and the sin of Islam has been judged. This is not something true Christian should ignore. Folks have become too politically correct to point and say: Hey! That is wrong, and it is dangerous. I have not. If Abraham had not CONFRONTED EVIL, AND TOOK IT ON, AND DESTROYED IT, his cousin Job would not have been much of a story in the Bible. We will not agree on this issue.

Well said Dan, islam is a cult of satan and you are correct islam has been judged by God himself.

Squib · « **Reply #73 on:** March 07, 2010, 08:13:14 AM »

from what I remember reading and hearing preached, most everyone is going straight to hell on judgement day, jews, christians and muslims, and gentiles, and pagans......

and a superpious, minimalist-sinner muslim is better than a fake christian, which the US is full of. while muslim "warriors" are prone to suicide bombing and mutilation of people in public settings, how wonderful is predator drone bombings of little desert shacks or a platoon of angry men bursting into a family's home one after another block by block? I don't see one as more valorious or ethical than the other, it's more of a red vs blue thing. hate muslims all you want but until you go off all the sinners in your own family, don't preach about how decadent a bunch of foreigners are. if you're not gonna go shoot a child molester in your neighborhood (they're listed online, yet you haven't done it!) then don't root for uncle sam to send some young men off to across the world to go kill the "bad guys" that are NOT in the US streets RIGHT NOW! that's tn's point, or what I got from it anyways. if you are worried about afghan poppy fields funding terrorism, don't worry about army rangers killing ragheads, go set a dope den on fire

or stop being a hypocrite and worry about your own, police your own people. because if you aren't (doing something about it)- they are your own people.

Squib · « **Reply #74 on:** March 07, 2010, 08:16:47 AM »

tm7 there is a book titled "the roots of everlasting jihad" that gets into all that... some of it sounds good and some of it is a fear filled hate rant, then again it's all fear motivated so take it for what it's worth. muslim boogeymen might get me

but it's alright that a few crackheads are living down the street and probably think about home invasion when they need drug funding. anyways, if that name doesn't get you a few links on amazon or something I will go get the book and pm you the info for publisher, citation and such.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #75 on:** March 07, 2010, 08:45:50 AM »

TM, being the profit mohammed , satans deciple, came after the scriptures were written it would not be written in the scriptures by name. DUHH! You are so silly keep preaching the neoNazi pro muslim babble you are famous for. I can't understand why they call it common sence when it is so uncommon. How is your "4000 watt death ray" that runs on AA batteries did you buy that silly kit and put ittogether yet?

Dude we are going to laugh ourselves sick watching your "the Jews did it" routine at the BBQ.

But how about this.

"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God…

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

Silly TM have you forgotten the Ten Commandments?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #76 on:** March 07, 2010, 10:11:09 AM »

Take another bong hit TM. Boy you are coming up with some doozies for your "the Jews did it tour".

powderman · « **Reply #77 on:** March 07, 2010, 12:34:32 PM »

TEAMNELSON. I see no difference between islam and sin. The goal os islam has always been to draw people away from Jesus Christ, it does that very well. If that isn't sin I don't know what is.
BILLY. You are wasting your breath my friend.
squib. Sometimes you make sense, other times I'm left wondering whose army you served with. I see nothing wrong with drones taking out BGs. I too dislike crackheads in America but taking them out isn't legal. Killing scum with drones is. POWDERMAN.

beerbelly · « **Reply #78 on:** March 07, 2010, 12:55:30 PM »

I think Squib some times gets off his meds! One day he is a former Marine grunt. The next he is a multi-language Intel type, that speaks Arabic.

Beerbelly

teamnelson · « **Reply #79 on:** March 07, 2010, 02:28:17 PM »

Pman, all false religions are the same, guilty of the same sins. But the judgment will be on people, not ideas, governments or religions. So fight sin in all places, not just one.

powderman · « **Reply #80 on:** March 07, 2010, 03:14:39 PM »

TN. True, but islam is the only false religion trying to kill us. POWDERMAN.

Squib · « **Reply #81 on:** March 07, 2010, 06:16:46 PM »

beerbelly, aren't you always saying **** the jews and muslims too? so why the personal attack, just trying to troll as usual now?

powderman, i'm saying as I usually try to (but apparently fail): I am more concerned with homegrown leeches and socialists, criminal elements and legitimate yet still predatory statesmen. I don't worry much about muslim extremists. they scare me but they're not the main threat and they aren't pulling this nation down RIGHT NOW. I know you don't agree, but that is my opinion on them.

teamnelson · « **Reply #82 on:** March 07, 2010, 06:36:37 PM »

Quote from: powderman on March 07, 2010, 03:14:39 PM

TN. True, but islam is the only false religion trying to kill us. POWDERMAN.

Selfism, the religion of me before all else, is killing more Americans per day than any other false religion ever has or ever will. It has also enslaved more people, destroyed more people, and lulled more people into a false sense of security than Islam could hope to accomplish. Tell you what, I'll fight the one in the middle, and you can take the one on the side. Deal?

It is written: "do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Squib · « **Reply #83 on:** March 07, 2010, 06:58:54 PM »

tn- can you explain the incompatibility of christianity and the glorification of the self? the statement is irrefutable but making it work is difficult in the real world. people think they are right, their interpretation of THEIR religion is right, etcetera...

also as a right, conservative, veteran and christian, ... you don't hate or even disparage muslims on here. can you explain how they are NOT necessarily the vile creatures many profess? I believe that the spiritual precepts are similiar but the applications are twisted and oppressive (between protestantism and "radical" islam). I don't dislike the maintenance of society and family through religion and force of arms (the reverse of the secular nanny state) but I hate the methods and limits that they go to. I look at it as opposite ends of a bell curve, their ideologues and our own. can you put that out in a more deliberate message, or correct mine.

thanks, ben

nomosendero · « **Reply #84 on:** March 07, 2010, 07:02:25 PM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on March 07, 2010, 06:36:37 PM

Quote from: powderman on March 07, 2010, 03:14:39 PM
TN. True, but islam is the only false religion trying to kill us. POWDERMAN.

Selfism, the religion of me before all else, is killing more Americans per day than any other false religion ever has or ever will. It has also enslaved more people, destroyed more people, and lulled more people into a false sense of security than Islam could hope to accomplish. Tell you what, I'll fight the one in the middle, and you can take the one on the side. Deal?

It is written: "do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

You might want to explain that one to the Christians in the Sudan, they are convinced the Muslims are killing them, just for being Christian, a little different than merely dealing with sinners.

teamnelson · « **Reply #85 on:** March 07, 2010, 07:12:46 PM »

nomo, I was referring to pmans comment that Islam is killing us, as in Americans. If you want to bring up a different issue, i.e. the persecution of christians around the world, then great.

Have you ever been to Sudan, or any Muslim country that kills Christians? I have, as a missionary. That's how concerned I am about the plight of Christians around the world. I've trained indigenous church leadership, prayed with them and heard their concerns. Do you know what the leadership of every persecuted church I've visited, or met in conference ... to a person, do you know what their prayer for the church in America is? That we would experience the joy of suffering for our faith like they do, because they know it builds faith, and they perceive ours is lacking. In fact, the church in China is sending missionaries to the United States ... did you catch that? Here! To prepare the underground church for the future they believe is coming to us.

Don't for a moment imagine that my emphasis on the sin of americans and their own self-destruction is some form of denial of persecution around the world. Everywhere, Christians are being killed for their faith, not just by Muslims, but by all kinds of people. Just here in the US its more sophisticated and complex. By all means, be concerned for the Sudan ... if you want to be a part of the solution there, let me know I can personally connect you with some folks who are working over there.

Matter of fact, here's a good link: http://sudansouth.org/ I have some close friends that still live in the region.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #86 on:** March 08, 2010, 01:39:34 AM »

I guess I se it as two different but related problem here. The muslims do want to either subjegate us under the yoke of islam, the liberal scum want to disarm us and subjegate us under the yoke of socialism. Of the 2 I see the muslims as the more agressive and much larger in number threat. Both ned to be dealt with but first we need to dal with the muslims. At this point in Amrierica the socialists are fairly kept in check by numbers of the conservatives here in America. With the muslims we have no such balance.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #87 on:** March 08, 2010, 01:54:21 AM »

The biggest thing most westerners will not admit is the Muslims want us to become like them or be gone from the earth . They have spent the last 20+ years sending decsiples around the world to spread their religion . Guys they are working hard and its taking hold .

powderman · « **Reply #88 on:** March 08, 2010, 03:14:41 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 08, 2010, 01:54:21 AM

The biggest thing most westerners will not admit is the Muslims want us to become like them or be gone from the earth . They have spent the last 20+ years sending decsiples around the world to spread their religion . Guys they are working hard and its taking hold .

YEP. Join us or die. POWDERMAN.

teamnelson · « **Reply #89 on:** March 08, 2010, 07:48:28 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 08, 2010, 01:39:34 AM

I guess I se it as two different but related problem here. The muslims do want to either subjegate us under the yoke of islam, the liberal scum want to disarm us and subjegate us under the yoke of socialism. Of the 2 I see the muslims as the more agressive and much larger in number threat. Both ned to be dealt with but first we need to dal with the muslims. At this point in Amrierica the socialists are fairly kept in check by numbers of the conservatives here in America. With the muslims we have no such balance.

billy, I agree with your assessment to the point of making the Muslim the larger threat. I don't think they are, and here's why - they lack the capacity to affect their will. Culturally, Americans, even conservatives, are more willing to embrace the liberal agenda than they are Islam. Liberalism is way more attractive to the rank and file ... because it makes the self the object of government. If and when our country fails, it will not be because we are overwhelmed by an Islamic awakening, it will be because our selfishness killed us off. You know that, I've read your posts.

Does Islam have the capability to cause serious physical harm? Sure. But we're doing a lot more to mitigate their threat than we are the threat of liberalism. In fact, I think liberalism wants us preoccupied with Islam, distracted, so we let abortion get funded in HC, and gun rights erode, and make it hate speech for a pastor to read out of Romans.