Day at the Range - C&B

[AtlLaw]

I finally got to the range yesterday... and finally got to shoot my Navy and Army!     First I loaded the Navy with the cylinder in a loading stand I bought; 20 gr. of FFFG HB.  I was very pleased with the accuracy and the group printed a couple of inches high at 20 yards.  I fired 3 more cylinders full playing around.  Recoil was darn near nonexistant!     This Uberti is without a doubt my favorite of the two!   

I also shot 2 clinders full out of the Army.  With 25 gr. of powder and the .45 cal. ball there was more recoil then the .36 had, but I would still term it as very mild.  This load hit almost to point of aim, but 3 or so inches left.     While not as accurate as the Navy, it was acceptable... barely.     I'm going to up the charge to 28 gr. and see what happens.  When I've got all the accuracy I think she can muster I'll worry about windage... if it's worth my time!

The little bench cylinder loader made me see how someone could bend the rammer mounted on the pistol.  I bought one for each revolver and it was good for me to use it the first time out.  I plan on using them the majority of the time.

Measuring out powder charges is a pain!  Even after having found an old Lee measure that scoups up 10 gr. at a time.  And my in-line capper was useless!  It was faster and easier to cap by hand.  What kind of cappers do y'all use?

After the first cylinder out of each revolver I used my home made combustible cartridges to reload with.  It was a LOT faster and easier then the aforementioned scoop method!  I could not tell any difference in ignition time or accuracy between the powder loaded  into the cylinder from a measure or a combustible cartridge.  Hi-ebber, and day always be a hi-ebber,    after about 2 loadings the fouling made it somewhat difficult to get the paper into the cylinder.   I'm going to increase the taper on my tube forming dowels and that should take care of that problem! 

My Beeswax/crisco lube seemed to be melting by the time 3 or 4 rounds had been fired.  I'm gonna mix some up with B'wax and tallow (deer and mutton - I have both now!) like we talked about.

All in all I had a great time!  And I learned a LOT about shooting C&B revolvers.  Of course there was that "cleaning up the revolvers" thing after I got home.  But even that wasn't real bad.   

I'm right glad I decided to try it!   

[El Gringo]

You've got me itchin to go to the range.
I use an straight capper for my Remington copy...holds 15 caps I think.
For my Colt Army copy I use a Ted Nash capper that holds bout a hundred,  I pour in a bunch and gently shake it about till they all stand upright then close the lid.

I think you'll appreciate a flask rather then having to measure out each load.  You can get different spouts for various charges.
Make sure to clean out your flask when its new.  Mine had a lot of polishing media in it when I got it.

Happy shooting!

[coyotejoe]

I second the suggestion for a flask and the Ted Cash capper, the teardrop or snail shape one works very well on rifles, shotguns and revolvers. It does take a little practice to get the hang of using it. I've never used a cylinder loader. I think they may be a good idea for a Remington type with easily removable cylinder but I think constantly breaking down and reassembling a Colt would soon wear it loose and I've never had any problem with using the loading lever on any C&B revolver except the very short barreled type where I  have had to slip a piece of pipe over the lever to make it easier on the hand. I shoot .457" balls in my .44's and have no problem seating them with the under-barrel lever. That is a weak point on the Rogers & Spencer and even on the Ruger. The loading levers on those are attached to the front of the cylinder base pin and putting force on the lever tends to bend the pin away from the barrel.

[P.A. Myers]

I never found a capper that worked any better than hand bombing. I found it more important was the container for the caps, some are awkward. My favorite is a cylinder flask with a long narrow measuring tube [I made that]. Good Luck

[Fingers McGee]

My loading procedure involves using a pistol stand to hold the pistol upright, charging the chambers with a flask & appropriately sized spout, inserting a lubed wad, placing the ball on the open chamber & seating with the atttached loading lever.  Capping is done with a Ted Cash revolver (snail) capper.  Don't have to cart around extraneous gear (cylinder loading contraption), disassemble the pistol to use the loading contraption, reassemble the pistol, then fumble finger around with caps to cap the nipples.  I shoot C&Bs for CAS competition and can recharge two pistols in 3-4 minutes this way.  TDC capper installs & seats the caps on the nipple all in one motion.   No muss, no fuss.

[FourBee]

Way to go AtlLaw:   Glad to see your report.  Looks like you had a real blast !    It is fun aint it.
 I'm like some of the other guys here, as the straight capper was too slow.  Hand capping a lot of caps hurts my thumbs, but the little Snail type Capper holds lots of caps and makes pretty quick work of capping a cylinder full of caps.  
  And like you say about the cleaning ~ ~

But even that wasn't real bad.

 

4B

[doc623]

Have you ever tried one of these?

Thompson Center Arms Capper, Star Shaped Polymer
 

[AtlLaw]

Second try... 

Thanks for the insight.  Looks like a Ted Cash snail capper is the way to go!   

I've decided I'll use my pre-packaged combustable paper loads for when I'm out in the woods and want to carry an extra 6 - 18 reloads just in case.

For range trips I'll try the flask method or maybe just wrap individual powder charges in combustable paper before hand.  That way I can just drop a packet of powder in each chamber, seat a wad on top of it and follow that by a ball and VOILA!!   

I'm sure with all y'all's help I'll come up a method that works for me!   

[coyotejoe]

I doubt you'll find it worth making up pre-packaged powder charges, it only takes seconds to drop a charge from the flask and would take as long at home as on the range, plus the time making up the paper container. It should be mentioned that there is some small danger of a bit of smoldering paper remaining in a chamber, unlikely but why tempt fate?

[P.A. Myers]

I have some 30 grain pyrodex pellets. Are they any good? I got these in a package deal. I never liked pyrodex powder. It has been a long time so it may have improved.  I wonder if these pellets ignite quickly. I suppose I'll have to go to the woods tomorrow and find out for myself.

[AtlLaw]

I dunno PA,    I'm new in this 'hood my own self!   

[lrrice]

If your gonna go to the trouble of making individual powder loads, you may as well make paper cartridges.  A flask and spout is the quickest way, next to paper cartridges.  I never used a capper cause every nipple I ever owned had to have the caps pinched a bit to keep them on.  Just use soft lead and you should never bend a loading lever and you wont have to bother with the reloading stand.  Above all just have fun with it.

[FourBee]

Posted by: lrrice  ~    I never used a capper cause every nipple I ever owned had to have the caps pinched a bit to keep them on.

For many years that was my delima too.  All the local shops only carried the #11 Percussion Caps which is what the revolver instructions call for.   With the help of the internet I got some #10 Remington Caps and they seat very snug on the Colt type revolvers.   If you can find them give 'em a try.

[AtlLaw]

If your gonna go to the trouble of making individual powder loads, you may as well make paper cartridges.

Well, at first blush I'd agree with you.     Hi-ebber, and day always be a hi-ebber, I figger I gots to use either a lubed felt wad or lube over the seated bullet.  It's easier for me to stick a wad in a chamber then lube over the bullet.. so, I drop in a wrapped up powder charge, drop in a wad and seat the bullet!  VOILA!!   

Now, if I could figure out how to load a combustable paper cartridge containing a lubed wad over the powder and a bullet over the lubed wad...     Maybe if I use 2 pieces of nitrate paper... one in a cone shape with the top big enough to take the wad... glue another piece the diameter of the wad to that... haveta glue a lube proof base to that piece first... maybe waxed cardboard... keep the lube off the powder dontcha know... then with everything glued up all I gots to do is drop one in a chamber and VOILA!!   

 

wait... 

[coyotejoe]

Loose caps present a danger of chain fire and pinching them to stay on is no solution, if the caps don't fit they are the wrong caps. I used to have both #10 and #11 caps because some revolvers took one and some the other. After a couple of range trips where I ended up with the wrong caps for the gun I had that day, I finally decided "this is silly". I had four revolvers and I replaced all my nipples with Ampco nipples. Now #11 caps fit them all perfectly and the Ampco nipples are much better than the Italian variety. They are all of the right length and they have a much smaller flash hole which reduces blow back and cap splatter and jams. I can't understand why I limped along with the Italian nipples for so long, just cheap I guess.

[AtlLaw]

Noe CJ, that's exactly what I thought!  Matter of fact I gonna start another thread about mt Ampco nipple 'sperience!   

[ZVP]

 Sounded like a good day!
 I too tried different cappers and only the straight line worked BUT it was so cumbersome to fill, I just pinch em and put them on by hand
 My loade for my Uberti .36 London is 22 gr of Pyrodex (by volume) and for my .44 Remington Army's is 30 gr of Pyrodex (by volume). Both loade give me the best preformance and accuracy. I tried 777 once but it's really HOT stuff and I would only recommend it for rifles.
 I place the revolver in a loading stand which makes loading so easy!
 I pour powder from a Flask into an adjustable powder measure and right into the cylinder. I either use s greased patch and ram the ball with the rammer or load the ball and use crisco over the cylinder's mouth. I prefer the wads because they tend to clean the bore each shot.
 I have the Italian nipples on my guns and I know what you all mean about needing both #10 and #11 sizes of caps. I just bought some RWS caps to try as I understand they fit  the best(?).
 I haven't ever tried paper loads but they sound like they are a little light loaded for my tastes. I also want to try conical bullets some day since they're heavier than round lead balls, though I have never had a problem with the round lead ball.
 ZVP
 

[coyotejoe]

The Civil War was the only war in which handguns actually played a serious role. Many CW vets claimed that the .36 with round balls as Confederate troops used was a better man stopper than the .44's with pointed conical bullets as issued in paper cartridges to Federal troops. Some have attributed this to the nose shape alone, and certainly a pointed bullet is the worst shape for stopping power, but I suspect the higher velocity of a .36 ball over a cylinder full of powder probably played a part in improved stopping powder as well. I would imagine that few people of that era understood much about muzzle velocity but everyone knew you can load more powder behind a ball than behind a conical bullet. Except for a very short wadcutter bullet I have never gotten accuracy from conicals to equal the round ball in C&B revolvers.

[AtlLaw]

My loade for my Uberti .36 London is 22 gr of Pyrodex (by volume) and for my .44 Remington Army's is 30 gr of Pyrodex (by volume).

I'ma gonna go up a tad on the 44 charge, but I like the 20 gr. in the 36.  I read somewhere that the recommended loads were 20 and 28 gr. so I figured that was a good starting point.

I went through the BP substitute phase when Pyrodex first came out.  Still got 2 or 3 cans of different stuff laying around but I'm back to holy black now...   

After listening to folk here about how they charge their revolvers I'm gonna do some more experimenting.  Fast, easy, accurate and fun are my main criteria!   

I just bought some RWS caps to try as I understand they fit  the best(?).

Funny you should mention that!  I had a tin full of those I decided to use up before I switched over to the CCI #11's I bought.  They fit the Italian nipples much better then the CCI's did.  I used them for the whole session.  They weren't quite tight enough by a half a hair, but like I say, better then the CCI's.

Except for a very short wadcutter bullet I have never gotten accuracy from conicals to equal the round ball in C&B revolvers.

I've heard that before and for my purposes the RB is all I need.     I mean, if they was good enough for WBH, who am I to dispute they use!   

I have heard that Veral designed a conical/RB hybred bullet and makes the mould.  Just because he did it I would have high expectations from that bullet and would dearly love to try some bullets dropped from his mould!     However, I don't know anybody who has one and I'm not really wantin to spend the money for one untried.   

I'm hopein to shoot again this weekend!   

[Graybeard]

Fast, easy, accurate and fun are my main criteria!

Yup mine too, that's why I use those new fangled centerfire rounds in my guns. 

Do any of you seriously think the folks who were stuck with flintlocks and cap and ball revolvers would have stuck with them if they had a choice of that or centerfire?

Yew boys jist ain't thinking wid yer heds.

[FourBee]

With my BP revolvers there's nothin fast about them.    2 or 3 hours can fly by and I still have plenty of ammo left.    Accuracy never entered my mind.    I was just glad the things would shoot.   When I'm done, my back hurts.  I smell like, like, the burnt powder.  I'm tired, and my guns are all black and suety, and they'll need a thorough cleaning when I get home, and I don't mean just a wipe down with an oil rag either.   I take every screw, spring, and whatever else will come off 'em, and wash'em like a new born baby, put 'em back together before my wife gets in the kitchen and begins re-arranging everything.   My main criteria ~ being able to experience the way it was with the tools of yesteryear.  

Whew!  Now that is fun   

[AtlLaw]

With  * there's nothin fast about them. ... 2 or 3 hours can fly by and I still have plenty of * left. ... * never entered my mind. ... I was just glad the things would *. ... When I'm done, my * hurts. ...  I smell like * . ... I'm tired, ... my * are all *, and they'll need a thorough cleaning when I get home, ...
 
Whew!  Now that is fun   

Now 4B...    I been sittin here reading your post for an hour ...    I started to respond a dozen times, but had to delete every one...   

Fess up!   You planned every line of this post with my reaction and possible responses in mind didn't you!       I mean, NO ONE could feed me that scenerio all those streight lines by accident!   

Well, you'll be pleased to know your insidious little plan worked...    I'm sweating, my hands are trembling and I've got a raging headache!  I tell ya, I picked a heck of a time to quit smoking... 

But this is a family forum... I will not fall into your dispicable trap!  I like this place!  You ain't getting me banned!     U better watch u back boy...    Immagonnagetcha...

 

[Cuts Crooked]

 And my in-line capper was useless!  It was faster and easier to cap by hand.  What kind of cappers do y'all use?

I use a cheap straight line capper fer my Remmingtons. Hope you find one that works for you, cause that finger capping has it's drawbacks! http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1620.0;attach=855;image  

[oldandslow]

Fast, easy, accurate and fun are my main criteria!

Yup mine too, that's why I use those new fangled centerfire rounds in my guns. 

Do any of you seriously think the folks who were stuck with flintlocks and cap and ball revolvers would have stuck with them if they had a choice of that or centerfire?

Yew boys jist ain't thinking wid yer heds.

As usual I'm several days late to this thread. I have to agree with you but I also have another way of looking at the subject.

A lot of us so called "adults" are just kids in a man's body no matter how gray our hair is if we even have any. Kids have to PLAY. Blackpowder shooting is a cheap way to play and is a way to kill time. It's so damn slow that you can't really burn up a lot of money in a day's shooting. It is interesting to me to experiment with it and see just how handicapped our ancestors were. I see can certainly understand why smokeless powder and self contained cartridges were invented but it amazes me how accurate the blackpowder guns are. I also shoot a lot of centerfire pistols in various calibers and really enjoy .22 LR in pistols and rifles.

[doc623]

ATLAW,
FYI and to make your day more fruitful and enjoyable; I did a little digging and have some information for you.
This is concerning a capper for a C&B revolver.
"Rapid Capper and Tin"(these are of plastic construction) made by or was for CVA and serial number or item number being AC1554A were marketed by the aforementioned as "Works for In-Line Guns; Works for all Rifles and Pistols; Holds six caps Ready for Use; and Holds Twenty Caps in Storage"
Don't know if they are still being made but have found these to be and work just fine for C&B revolvers.
If you have any questions feel free to ask.