Welfare For Farmers

[south_river_redneck]

In honor of DEE, I pronounce tomorrow "National Punch A Farmer Day"

[hunt-m-up]

Where does it all end? Subsidies, Medi-care, Medic-aid, Food Stamps, Pensions, Earned Income Credit...no one squeals unless it's coming out of their back pocket, then look out. I have a couple neighbors who recently bought new vehicles off of the Earned Income credit, pays to have more kids and not make an attempt to better yourself. Have a sister who works for the PO, says they're not gov't subsidized, really? Then I want UPS and Fedex to drop in the same mailbox as USPS, what's the penalty for knocking over a Fedex drop box?...it goes on and on.
Grew up on a farm and have 2 BIL's and FIL still in farming and countless friends farming. Most are trying to make a dollar legitimately, ave. probably $10-20K in subsidies on a couple thousand acres a piece, but I know of one family who averages $500K a year with land in 5 different names. Ineffective government is afraid to enforce anything, too many campaign funds riding on it.

[blind ear]

60% of the grain we raise is fed to livestock. about 10% is wasted to spoil and vermin. If we gust ate the grain rather than feed it to animals we would have mountains of it left. I do eat lots of chicken and fish. eddie

[Drilling Man]

  When i drive east of my place, i have to travel through one of those "round-about" intersections that cost 14 million  bucks...  Folks around here can't even figure out why it was put in, as it had good traffic flow, and not many accidents there.  It was built with FREE obama money...  There's another one just south of here...

  I don't have any kids in school, but i subsidize every one of YOU that do!  How about all the subsidies that are given to cities to fix their water and sewer?  I don't get anything from that...  And the list goes on and on...  Ever check a tax deduction on your tax forum???  How about the obama subsidy on a new car, a few months ago??

  I'd say every man woman and child in the US is getting a subsidy from some where...

  DM

[slim rem 7]

well on the subject that i thought the post was about,,i don t know much..
 i just remember farmers getting paid to leave good farming land unused..
 didn t make sense then,, an i don t think it ever will for me..
 if  something can be messed up ..leave it to man.. he can getter done..jmo slim

[billy_56081]

ALL industries are dependent upon either the agriculture or mining/mineral industries. Without these we would have to import all of our raw materials or we would have absolutly no industrie what so ever.

[Dee]

In honor of DEE, I pronounce tomorrow "National Punch A Farmer Day"

In honor of south_river_ redneck, I pronounce EVERY DAY, as "Turn a Light Bulb On" so south_river_redneck won't remain in the dark, ever how hard he tries.

[Sourdough]

While visiting with my folks in January, went up to see my Aunt and her daughter.  My cousion is one of the people screaming loudist for Health care.  She and her Husband squandered all the money he made under the table with cash only jobs.  They inhearted a good size farm from her Grandparents when they died right after she was married.  So for all those years they recieved substadies for not farming that land.  And still do.

Today after a heart attack her husband says he is unable to work anymore.  Yet he is able to go climb the hills and hunt Deer and  Turkey.  He's just too lazy to get up off his rear and go do something.

During our visit my Cousion said she did not know what they would do if it was not for the farm substasdy they get.  Then she looked at me and said, "We don't get a check from the government every month like other people do".  Refering to my monthly Air Force retirement check.  I was so mad I wanted to go over and smack her right in the mouth, but I did not.  I went outside and took my Dad by the arm and we went for a long walk.  I was so mad I could not think straight, and I avoided going back into the house because it would have only led to a fight.  I'll never go back there again to visit.


Here she is living off government money for not farming a farm they are too lazy to farm anyway.  Yet she resents me getting a check from the Air Force.   A check I spent 20 years of my life, in some not so nice places, earning.

[slim rem 7]

we thank you for your service ,,anyway sourdough. slim

[Dixie Dude]

The Amish do not get farm subsities, nor social security.  They do just fine.  The families and communities take care of each other.  This is what happened years ago, before mass industrialization.  I think, instead of subsidies, the government can buy up excess production and store it for bad years, droughts, floods, hurricanes, etc.  Kind of like our strategic resurve of oil they buy and store.  In bad years, they wouldn't have to buy any excess produce, just release what was stored to keep prices stable.  If we switched our fuel to home produced fuel, this would hurt some of our enemies the most.  Then let them try to buy food. 

[powderman]

HEH. Nothing quite like seeing folks whining on a full stomach. Hmmmmmm, wonder where all that food comes from?? Oughta be real hard to figure that out. Hmmmmmm.  POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

HEH. Nothing quite like seeing folks whining on a full stomach. Hmmmmmm, wonder where all that food comes from?? Oughta be real hard to figure that out. Hmmmmmm.  POWDERMAN. 

Well, half my food comes from overseas ($65 Billion a year in food is imported), so let's just focus on the other half. None of the half that comes from the US is produced by farmers who are paid not to farm, right? Cause they're not producing any food ... that's what that original 1.3 Billion dollar figure is all about.

Did you drink coffee today? It didn't come from America.

[rex6666]

I grew up on the farm, we worked from sun-sun as my Dad said.
that land would only produce so much no matter how much fertilizer and
water it got. Same land to day is being farmed buy people that have equipment
that can do in 1/2 day what we did in 1 1/2 days (we had good equip.)
I have watched them and the old farmers that still live there laugh about it
fact that the "new" farmer gets up in the mourning and goes to the coffee
shop, about 9:30 he goes and works for 3 hrs. then goes to cafe and has lunch
and shoots the bull for about 2-3 hrs. the works another 3-4 hrs and goes home. Same county i grew up in planted corn several years ago, never been
corn there before. The corn crop failed, ins. co. could not pay so fed. gov.
and guess who paid. I as one of my old buds about it, he said they were
afraid they were going to make a crop for a while and would not get the ins.
check. On the list is a farmer i grew up with he has collected 1.6 mil since
2005, he is one of the worst farmers there. I sell com. trailers for a living
if they don't sell i have no one to bail me out. I sell some to farmers
driving F-350 4x4, deisel, 4 door XLT fords =$40,000.00 and up, but they want
you to cut your price in half.

[south_river_redneck]

DEE, I understand why this subject infuriates you. I would like to thank you for posting the link, and just before my last post last night i thoroughly read the website.  My dad had shown it to me a few years ago, but looking again last night reaffirms what i had suspected.  It's the big dogs exploiting the system, generally not the mom-and-pop operation.  Douche of a neighbor up the road has gotten $4,100 in wheat subsidies. This is in south central Iowa! I'm not gonna sit here and say the system is perfect, far from it. But some years subsidies are the only way i can afford lightbulbs.  Since i'm new to farming, i guess i need to dip harder into subsidies so i can buy more lights! 

[Dee]

south_river_redneck, it doesn't infuriate me as much as you might think. It's the attitude that some of them have, as SELF MADE MEN. When I started my trucking business, I had nothing but my good name, and good credit. Several years were tuff, and when the money wasn't there, to the bank I would go. There were no bailouts involving the cost for repairs, or payments, on $125,000.00 trucks on 5 year notes with 10% interest rates. It was SINK OR SWIM.
I learned to SWIM, and paid for a home, cars, and toys IN FULL, in the period of 10 years. No bailouts, no subsidies, no interest free loans, no tax free fuel. NOTHING! Just fuel taxes, road taxes, heavy road use taxes for EVERY STATE WE ENTERED, and unemployment insurance, and workman's comp insurance,vehicle insurance, load insurance ($2,000,000.00 dollars worth there) and health insurance, and accounting fees. We got NO HELP, but we damn sure got taxed, and the farmer, along with a hundred other lobbies with their hands out got the money.
No I'm not infuriated, but I will admit to be somewhat indignant at the gimme attitude of many farmers (not all), and the I'm the salt of the earth attitude. Without the guys like me, they would be feedin the mule, and farmin 40 acres. I guarantee none have put in more hours than I did. I kept trucks running 24 hours a day, (that's just one) with a team in it, that shut down long enough to either load, or unload, seven days a week, and shut down long enough for repairs, and or service. You didn't get a little help from the government. You got a gift from the tax payer, and we got the bill.
The truth is: When trucks stop! America stops! And starves!

[alsaqr]

I do not have a problem with small farmers getting a subsidy from the US government.  I have a big problem when 80 percent of the money goes to huge farms and agri-businesses.  Much of my hog hunting is done on some property that belongs to a good friend:  It is all leased out to the same guy:  That so called "farmer" rakes in $200,000 per year in farm welfare. 

The cattle were dying on one of those places because the "farmer" refused to feed them.  Called the county sheriff who did nothing.  So I called the Humane Society who caused so much stink that the guy was charged and went to court.  The guy got a big fine and 3 days in jail.

[Dee]

I do not have a problem with small farmers getting a subsidy from the US government.  I have a big problem when 80 percent of the money goes to huge farms and agri-businesses.  Much of my hog hunting is done on some property that belongs to a good friend:  It is all leased out to the same guy:  That so called "farmer" rakes in $200,000 per year in farm welfare.  

These are the guys I'm talkin about, and every farmer I personally know gets them in that range.

[Buckskin]

Yes I know the system is abused as is all governement programs unfortunately.  But there is a simple reason why ag subsidies exist.  It's to protect the world food supply.  

The Country or World for that matter needs a certain amount of surplus every year in the event of a catastrophic weather event.  In order for that different types of subsidies are in place to keep enough farmers solvent to produce those crops.  If the government didn't do that, yes supply and demand would eventually work IF the weather was a constant.  Say there are no subsidies, and there was several average years which forced prices down to below break even point and eventually 1/2 of the farmers couldn't make it anymore and sold or lost their land.  Then a couple years of drought... There wouldn't be time for farmers to start up again to produce enough food for the market and we would be in major trouble.  Think potato blight and dust bowl, but with world popluation of 10x.

Farmers are paid not to grow crops on certain types of ground like wetlands and prairie ground for wildlife areas (CRP).  Almost all land that was able to be farmed was just a few decades ago and we were loosing a lot of wildlife habitat.  The govenment decided to pay the farmers not to plant there to allow for more habitat.  I suppose you wanted the farmers to give up their land for nothing so you could hunt on it...Now this land is still available for farming if needed or if they drop from the program.  

My I grew up on a farm and my Dad still farms.  My brother farmed for about 10 years and couldn't make it and now has a full-time job and crop farms a couple hundred acres just for the love of it.  My Dad today is combining his corn, crap wet corn with mold that he is going to get docked on.  Late wet spring, early killing frost and early snow left 250 acres of poor corn out there.  You  city boys or small town boys who consider yourself country because you walk through someone elses field to hunt and then bitch about farm subsidies have no clue what it takes to be a farmer and no appreciation for them. And those that think their family was above that should ask to look at the finanicals, you may be suprised.

And for those of you who want to complain, call your congressman and tell him to go after the corruption in the programs, not the guys trying to keep their farms.  OR grow your own damn food so your off the grid.  And buy your own land to hunt on, your not welcome on mine anymore....

[Dee]

If you don't like the complaining, stop taking our money. Buy crop insurance, and don't take the "disaster subsidies" AND the crop insurance. Anyone taking farm subsidies should be MANDATED to allow hunting and fishing for any tax payer FREE OF CHARGE and with out restrictions as long as the hunter is doing so within the game laws.

[beerbelly]

I am sure a lot of you are going to run out buy some land, equipment and start farming! Hell why not? They are all getting rich sitting in the coffee shop and waiting on that government check! I wish all you new farmers well ! 
                             Beerbelly

[Buckskin]

Ahhhh I see, it's because Dee didn't get a piece of the pie.   Probably a Teamster too....I bet if there were a per mile hand out, Dee would have been the first in line, but I'm sure you will deny...

When trucks stop America stops. Hah, ever hear of something called rail???  Which is a where this country made a major mistake, not investing in more rail.  It is a much more efficient means of transport, but that is another issue. Fact is, like it or not that trucking isn't a do or die commodity.  Supply and demand works just fine in trucking, lose a 5th of the fleet, no big deal it will get there one way or another.  If not today, tomorrow...Oh wait, that's the way it is now.

[billy_56081]

And the truck would have nothing to haul if there were no ag and mineral industries. But again we are arguing with a guy who failed in the trucking and housing buisiness. Put the blame on others, that's the liberal way.

[Dee]

Ahhhh I see, it's because Dee didn't get a piece of the pie.   Probably a Teamster too....I bet if there were a per mile hand out, Dee would have been the first in line, but I'm sure you will deny...

When trucks stop America stops. Hah, ever hear of something called rail???  Which is a where this country made a major mistake, not investing in more rail.  It is a much more efficient means of transport, but that is another issue. Fact is, like it or not that trucking isn't a do or die commodity.  Supply and demand works just fine in trucking, lose a 5th of the fleet, no big deal it will get there one way or another.  If not today, tomorrow...Oh wait, that's the way it is now.

Sorry partner. No union. Wouldn't even go to a union dock to load or unload. Their attitude is just like yours. Gimme-Gimme! Get that train to pull up at your field and pick that wheat up, or cattle, or chickens. I sold my truckin business and paid the taxes on the profit, so you guys could get you GIFT. You guys like to talk about government give aways, as long as no one mentiones YOUR GOVERNMENT GIFT OF FREE MONEY. Then you go on the defense. Your another welfare recipient, and you don't like being called on it. Yours, and everyone elses cash cow needs to be done away with. You take the subsidy gifts cause you can't make it on your own.

[Dixie Dude]

That is why I said they need to reverse their thinking.  Buy excess in good years to keep minimum prices up.  Release some in bad years to keep prices down.  I don't think it would cost as much.  Too many people getting government money and if the national debt reaches $20 trillion, we will be bankrupt as a nation, then everything will dry up including the military. 

[rex6666]

Ahhhh I see, it's because Dee didn't get a piece of the pie.   Probably a Teamster too....I bet if there were a per mile hand out, Dee would have been the first in line, but I'm sure you will deny...

When trucks stop America stops. Hah, ever hear of something called rail???  Which is a where this country made a major mistake, not investing in more rail.  It is a much more efficient means of transport, but that is another issue. Fact is, like it or not that trucking isn't a do or die commodity.  Supply and demand works just fine in trucking, lose a 5th of the fleet, no big deal it will get there one way or another.  If not today, tomorrow...Oh wait, that's the way it is now.

How do you suppose corn or umbarellas get from the rail to all those nice Wally-world
stores. You can not even begin to move Americas freight by rail.

[Drilling Man]

  Kinda reminds me of when i had a gunshop...  The same trucker would deliver my powder and be amused that i had to pay a surcharge on the gun powder...  Many years later, he retired and bought a hobby shop...  One day i was in there and a truck delivered the model airplane fuel, and there was a surcharge, man did he ever get lit up over that!  SO, i reminded him of all the times HE delivered gunpowder to my store and was so amused at MY surcharge.  He got so pizzed at me, he told me to get out!

  As for the grain being trucked to the mill, around here, most farmers buy there own trucks to move their grain, and i also think we should have put money into the rail system, instead of letting the trucking lobby keep us screwed by them.

  DM

[Buckskin]

Sorry partner. No union. Wouldn't even go to a union dock to load or unload. Their attitude is just like yours. Gimme-Gimme! Get that train to pull up at your field and pick that wheat up, or cattle, or chickens. I sold my truckin business and paid the taxes on the profit, so you guys could get you GIFT. You guys like to talk about government give aways, as long as no one mentiones YOUR GOVERNMENT GIFT OF FREE MONEY. Then you go on the defense. Your another welfare recipient, and you don't like being called on it. Yours, and everyone elses cash cow needs to be done away with. You take the subsidy gifts cause you can't make it on your own.

You may not have been union, but most of your brotheren are...So your industry is just as polluted, worse in my opinion.  

Why do you keep refering it as my gift of money.  I'm not a farmer, I'm a business owner who pays more than his share of taxes but is smart enough to know that government needs to assure a food supply.  You are the proof that ignorance is bliss...Why don't you do a little research on the subject in your spare time as a retiree, instead of counting your mountain of money from selling your struggling "poor unappreciated me" trucking company.

And by the way most farmers around here use their own trucks to take grain to the COOP, where it's loaded on rail...

Yes, local trucking would be needed, but cross country trucking is insane.  One 300 pound man driving one trailer of goods getting 3 miles per gallon, not very efficient.   We should have put way more infastructure in rail, one of the great failings of this nation.  But then again the teamsters lobbiests would never have allowed that.

[billy_56081]

Most farmers around here also own there own trucks. We need to encouraged the development of raw goods to its utmost. They are what EVERYTHING else is derived from. I myself am not a farmer but if it were not for farming and mining I would have no job. I do not need advice from someone whose only buisinesses outside their pubic service. Were complete and utter failures. Most farmers I know are hard working and have tens of millions invested in land and equipment.

[Dee]

Sorry partner. No union. Wouldn't even go to a union dock to load or unload. Their attitude is just like yours. Gimme-Gimme! Get that train to pull up at your field and pick that wheat up, or cattle, or chickens. I sold my truckin business and paid the taxes on the profit, so you guys could get you GIFT. You guys like to talk about government give aways, as long as no one mentiones YOUR GOVERNMENT GIFT OF FREE MONEY. Then you go on the defense. Your another welfare recipient, and you don't like being called on it. Yours, and everyone elses cash cow needs to be done away with. You take the subsidy gifts cause you can't make it on your own.

You may not have been union, but most of your brotheren are...So your industry is just as polluted, worse in my opinion.  

Why do you keep refering it as my gift of money.  I'm not a farmer, I'm a business owner who pays more than his share of taxes but is smart enough to know that government needs to assure a food supply.  You are the proof that ignorance is bliss...Why don't you do a little research on the subject in your spare time as a retiree, instead of counting your mountain of money from selling your struggling "poor unappreciated me" trucking company.

And by the way most farmers around here use their own trucks to take grain to the COOP, where it's loaded on rail...

Yes, local trucking would be needed, but cross country trucking is insane.  One 300 pound man driving one trailer of goods getting 3 miles per gallon, not very efficient.   We should have put way more infastructure in rail, one of the great failings of this nation.  But then again the teamsters lobbiests would never have allowed that.

I don't think anyone here is ignorant, I just think you think, it's ok for folks to "mooch" off the taxpayer and pretend it's necessary for the food supply. I used the trucking industry as an example but this thread is about the many farmers that sponge off the tax payer, and get indignant when called out on it. Apparently the farmer is incapable of makin it on his own, so needs government mandated welfare to sustain his chosen , but failing lifestyle. With that said, it is obvious you are a confirmed socialist, so there is no reason to have dialogue with you anymore on the subject. You are defending welfare recipients and that says a lot. Never fear,the Democrats are with you and most Republicans.

[powderman]

BUCKSKIN, BILLY. Good posts. POWDERMAN.