Welfare For Farmers

[alsaqr]

My VA disability rating has been at 70 percent for many years.  Could have set on my rear and done nothing but whine to the VA and my congress criminals.  Could have gotten 100 percent disability 15 years ago but I do not believe in that.  Could have been sitting on my butt getting a tax free $5,000 per month from the VA.  In OK a veteran rated at 100 percent pays no property taxes and no sales taxes on anything.     

For many years I ran my own business and worked my rear off.  I had to pay double social security on every cent I earned.  Had to pay for one million dollars worth of liability insurance year around.  For certain explosive operations I had to have 10-20 million dollars worth of liability insurance at a rate of $2,500-$4,000 per day.  Had to pay workers comp at a high rate.  Paid for life insurance for my employees.  Yep, I made money.  Also made money when the business was sold. 

I'm very proud that no one ever gave me anything that I did not earn.   

[Buckskin]

Again ignorance is bliss, you calling me a socialist is plenty proof of that.  It's a wonder why you have four people ignoring your posts.  Actually it's a wonder that it's only four.  

You have no knowledge of the issue except that farmers get money.  You act like they all get rich by YOUR tax dollars, even though your retired... Collecting government benefits...
Yet you have an "in your face" attutide when defending the trucking industry as being the glue that holds the country together.  Even though that industry is riddled with corruption, pay-offs, etc through the union.  Which even though you "might" not have been a member of greatly influenced your rates and wealth when you sold your business.  

Your food costs you less because of these payments and your food supply is stable because of these payment.  And believe me no farmer I know is rich because of gov subsidies.

[Dee]

Same here alsaqr. When I sold my trucking business, I was in the black, sold it for a profit, and paid the taxes on that profit. No help for me in the beginning, the middle, or the end. Never asked for help, and never got any.
On my second business, when the housing market crashed here, I figured out how to sell the last remaining house for an eventual profit, kept my good credit, and paid for land AGAIN, that I had already paid for once, and had used for collateral to buy houses. NO help that time either, and I eventually came back out in the black.

Oh, and by the way Buckskin. I'm not retired and not receiving any type of government benefits. Also on the ignore list. Your welcome to make it five, and you'll fit right in with the list. Now we're done.

[Buckskin]

My VA disability rating has been at 70 percent for many years.  Could have set on my rear and done nothing but whine to the VA and my congress criminals.  Could have gotten 100 percent disability 15 years ago but I do not believe in that.  Could have been sitting on my butt getting a tax free $5,000 per month from the VA.  In OK a veteran rated at 100 percent pays no property taxes and no sales taxes on anything.     

For many years I ran my own business and worked my rear off.  I had to pay double social security on every cent I earned.  Had to pay for one million dollars worth of liability insurance year around.  For certain explosive operations I had to have 10-20 million dollars worth of liability insurance at a rate of $2,500-$4,000 per day.  Had to pay workers comp at a high rate.  Paid for life insurance for my employees.  Yep, I made money.  Also made money when the business was sold. 

I'm very proud that no one ever gave me anything that I did not earn.   

Before I start I want to say thanks for your service to our great country!

Thats great, you've done what most business owners do that make it.
But the difference here is that we give farmers incentive to keep in business to protect the country from starving.  Not because they feel sorry for them.  Get over the I didn't get any help bs..  If a dust bowl scenerio hit again, without these payment to keep farms going we would be screwed.

[billy_56081]

I'm kinda wondering how someone knows they have a 70% VA disability rating if they don't receive VA disability paymnets? I think you have to apply to the VA go through medical screening and then the VA rates you and gives you a payment. And BTW 100 % disabled vets do not receive 5000$ a month it is in the 2600 a month range. Tax free.

[Graybeard]

Locked for the moment until I have more time to read and decide if folks have gone too far and broke the rules here. Some seem to think so and I've not got time now to read and decide.

[Graybeard]

Unlocking again as I've now read every post here and just didn't see what I was made to understand was here. Still I think about everything worth saying has been said.

If you restart it remember to stay within the rules on name calling and personal attacks or I will have to take further actions.

[Buckskin]

Same here alsaqr. When I sold my trucking business, I was in the black, sold it for a profit, and paid the taxes on that profit. No help for me in the beginning, the middle, or the end. Never asked for help, and never got any.
On my second business, when the housing market crashed here, I figured out how to sell the last remaining house for an eventual profit, kept my good credit, and paid for land AGAIN, that I had already paid for once, and had used for collateral to buy houses. NO help that time either, and I eventually came back out in the black.

Oh, and by the way Buckskin. I'm not retired and not receiving any type of government benefits. Also on the ignore list. Your welcome to make it five, and you'll fit right in with the list. Now we're done.

I will comment one more time on this issue...

So not only Did Dee benefit from the Teamster's underhanded methods, he was in the housing market and benefited from the massive bank bailout for his housing business and still has the "poor me, I did it all by myself" attitude.  Unbelievable!!! Yet he has such such a distaste for farmers "and the salt of the earth attitude".  Again, why don't you do a little research on the subject for the reasoning behind the subsidies.  Not all taxes are worthless and wasted, but all areas where taxes are used there is abuse and massive waste.  The abuse is where the rath should be directed.  Schools, roads, fire and police, etc are example of other needed taxes.  But again waste abounds in these areas also.

Not recieving any goverment benefits??? Maybe not directly, but secondarily they abound in your life!

I won't give you the satisfaction of racking up another on your ignore list, it seems you wear them as a badge of honor.  And I can certainly handle your intellect, or lack there of.

[Graybeard]

Maybe YOU should do a little research before making false accusations. Perhaps I shouldn't have reopened the thread.

Dee left the housing business LONG before the bail outs. No one bailed him out he lost everything he had when the housing market crashed.

[Dee]

I'M GONNA SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME, AND LET IT LAY. I PUPOSELY IGNORE BILLY BECAUSE HE NEVER GETS HIS FACTS STRAIGHT, AND I SUSPECT HE AND THE BUCKSKIN ARE TRYING TO DO THIS TOGETHER. AND THE BUCKSIN HAS MADE A POOR ALLIANCE.
 I SOLD A SUCCESSFUL "INDEPENDENT" TRUCKING BUSINESS FOR A PROFIT, AND PAID THE TAXES ON THAT PROFIT.
UNIONS? ANYONE CAPABLE OF READING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, CAN DO A LITTLE RESEARCH "ON THIS FORUM" AND GET MY OPINION OF "MOST ALL" UNIONS. NEVER BEEN A MEMEBER, AND NEVER PLAN TO BE, "OF ANY UNION".

AS FAR AS THE HOUSING MARKET? MONEY WISE? I LOST MY ASS, AS MANY INVESTORS DID.

AS FAR AS CREDIT AND PROPERTY? I LOST "NOTHING". NO BAILOUTS, NO STIMULUS PACKAGES, AND CERTAINLY NO GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES SUCH AS BEING DISCUSSED CONCERNING FARMERS ON THIS THREAD. JUST HARD WORK, AND SLOW RECOVERY. BUT I DID RECOVER. I OWN MY HOUSE AND CARS, AND LAND "FREE AND CLEAR" AND HAVE FOR SEVERAL YEARS. I ACCOMPLISHED THIS THRU THE HARD WORK, OF MYSELF AND MY WIFE, AND THE BLESSINGS GOD GAVE US. WHICH BY THE WAY WERE NOT IN THE FORM OF "FARM SUBSIDIES". JUST A LITTLE POKE THERE.

NOW AS FAR AS THE THREAD TOPIC, AND THE STATEMENTS I MADE? THEY ARE THE TRUTH, AND I ONLY REPEATED WHAT THE GOVERNMENT REPORTS, AND GAVE THE LOCATION OF THAT SOURCE "BY NAME" FOR ANY TO LOOK AT. THE FARMERS ARE, IN EVERY STATE, COUNTY, ZIP CODE, AND TOWN, LISTED BY NAME AND AMOUNT RECEIVED SINCE 1995.

AS FAR AS MY "IGNORE LIST" BUCKSKIN? THERE ARE FOUR TODAY. YOU AND YOUR BUDDY BILLY CAN GROW IT TO 6. IT WOULD BE AN "HONOR" FOR ME, AND YOU BOTH WOULD BE IN GOOD COMPANY. YOUR BOTH LIGHTWEIGHTS THAT GO FOR THE PERSONAL ATTACK, RATHER THAN THE TOPIC FACTS. WANT TO DISPUTE GOVERNMENT "PUBLIC" RECORDS?
 I HAVE NOT ATTACKED YOU, NOR WILL I. YOU EXPLAIN YOURSELF, WITH YOUR OWN CONDUCT. YOUR FREE TO TEAR INTO ME, AS I CAN DO NOTHING TO PREVENT IT. IT'S GB'S SITE, AND HIS CALL.

BUT CONCERNING MY PERSONAL BUSINESS, WHICH IS REALLY NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS? YOU ARE SADLY IGNORANT OF THE FACTS, UNTIL THIS POST. YOU CAN CHOOSE TO REMAIN IGNORANT, AND LISTEN TO OTHER IGNORANT PEOPLE , OR ACCEPT TRUTH. THIS IS ALL YOUR GONNA GET ON MY PERSONAL BUSINESS, BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF FRIENDS OF MINE THAT SEEM MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK OF ME, THAN I DO. BUT THEY ARE MY FRIENDS, AND I THANK THEM JUST THE SAME.
YOU HOWEVER, HAVE ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING CONCERNING THE TOPIC TO DATE.
BILL I WON'T BE CONVERSING WITH THIS GUY ANYMORE, SORRY FOR THE UPROAR.

DEE

[Buckskin]

Well it seems that I had some incorrect assumtions and I appologize for that.

But for you  to accuse me of personal attacks when you flat out called me a "confirmed socialist" and that I was recieving these payments is just as out of line as me assuming that your property was sold post bank bail out.

We obviously are never going to come to agreement of this topic and everyone else wisely dropped out, so I am done with it also.

By the way, I am so strongly anti-union that I routinely do my contractor business in areas across the country like chicago, st. louis, etc., and intentially don't hire union tradesmen just to make a stir.  And have paid dearly for it. Property vandalism, threats and more...

[ed k]

i am a farmer and i do receive subsidies from the gov. i would be stupid not to take this money.
i farm about 4000 acres in n. dak.. this is all dry land farming. my payments are about 9.00 per acre. heres where you can do a little math. 40 bushels to the acre at 60 pounds to the bushel of spring wheat. this is 2400 pounds of grain for your  and my 9.00 dollars per acre. so for one third of a penny you eat grain and all products cheaper than anywhere in the world.
i am selling wheat at about 5.00 per bushel and if it had gone up with inflation as everything else did i would be getting about 30.00 per bushel.


if you dont think this program works for cheap food look in the mirror. 80 percent of u.s. citizens are over weight.
I bought my first new vehicle  in 2007 and it cost me one half of one perrcent of my expenses on the farm for one year. what percent is your vehicle of your income?
just a little information i wanted to throw out.  ed k

[teamnelson]

$36K ($9x4000) doesn't seem like a whole lot if a brand new vehicle in 2007 is only one half of one percent of your annual expenses. If that vehicle was a working man's truck, I'm guessing the subsidy probably just covered it. I'm not asking you to post your personal numbers up here, so let's ballpark with what you did say. Let's say that new vehicle was $30K, so using your equation (vehicle cost = .5%), your annual expenses are $6 million ($30kx200). Wow! Maybe it was just a $15K car, so your expenses are $3 million annually. I don't know how much it costs to run 4,000 acres, but I'm guessing its not cheap.

If you're producing 160,000 bushels (40 per acre x 4000) and selling for $5 each, that's $800,000 gross. Add that $36k supplement and you're still coming in way short.

Sorry, but it does beg the question of the subsidy in the first place if your costs are so high and the subsidy is so small. It would be better just to stop the subsidy and let you sell your wheat at an unprotected price to allow you the opportunity to recoup your losses, which by these numbers are significant.

Of course, we might not want to pay 6 times more for a loaf of white bread, so demand might drop, which would mean we're all not so obese and HC costs might go down.

[billy_56081]

My whole point is I would rather see government subsidies go to the ag and mineral industries as these two industries are what EVERY and ALL other indutries are founded on. If America wants to get out of this depression it is in we need to have more production in the mineral and ag industries. Yep Dan truck are important, they are made from and haul and run on products from these two industries.

[Dee]

I guess you could also equate the cost of operating a car to and from work, if you had a job, the cost of work cloths, and of course food either carried to the work place, or eating out while at work, plus baby sitting or day care, along with health insurance, and with all these costs it would be cheaper to stay on the other welfare and government housing, than it would to go get a job.
Anyone drawing a government subsidized welfare check of any kind is getting free untaxed, tax payer money, and they can always justify it, and they will.
With all due respect to ed k, if you cannot make it without tax payer money, why don't you find a job that you can. Your farming operation doesn't seem to be working if you have to have tax payer money to make ends meet. Surely you can understand why many taxpayer resent these subsidies. One government hand out is as bad as the other. You can talk to anyone on welfare in government housing and they will tell you all their reason of why it's better for them to live off the taxpayer.
This is not said in any way sarcastically, but in truth. These subsidies are an albatross around the neck of the tax payer in this country. Not just the farming subsidies, but all subsidies. Capitalism is about free markets, and this is nothing more than the government bribing for control of the markets involved in farming with the farmer accepting the bribe.
If my business isn't working to the point I can't make it without outside help in the way of funding I would go out of business, and in fact in one business when the market fell, I did go out of business. It is part of the risk of self employment.

[billy_56081]

Are police and PERA paid with tax dollars? Some things need to be subsidised.

[Dee]

Someone needs the differences between public utilities, and services and PRIVATE ENTERPRISE, explained to them. Police, Firemen, and City, County, or State ran Paramedic units are ran as services, and not for profit. Farming is supposed to be for PROFIT, and as private or corporate enterprise.

[Dee]

Whatever. I think all worth while has been said by everyone. Everything is pretty much become circular. It is now evolved into trying to put out each others small fires. The meat of the matter has already been eaten. I'm done with this one.

[billy_56081]

A police officer works for a wage (personal profit) this wage they receive is paid by taxes. A farmer grows a crop for a profit. From police our subsidy brings us security. From agriculture our subsidy brings us food, shelter, fuel, medicine and many other things needed in everyday life. I have no problem subsidising both.

[Dee]

  Like I said, I'm done.