Civil war cannon ball for sale

[ron8578]

Can someone please tell me, isn't it illegal to sell a live civil war cannon ball, described as unexploded, in a online auction?  I can't believe it. its pictured online.  Details coming, expecting the company to return my call.  Its my belief that if you don't know whats inside, then its live.  Please advise.
Ron

[GGaskill]

There were both exploding and non-exploding shot used in the Civil War. 

[Artilleryman]

I would hope that if it is a shell that it has been de-activated.

[Cat Whisperer]

Can someone please tell me, isn't it illegal to sell a live civil war cannon ball, described as unexploded, in a online auction?  I can't believe it. its pictured online.  Details coming, expecting the company to return my call.  Its my belief that if you don't know whats inside, then its live.  Please advise.
Ron

Good question!  (WELCOME to the board!)

If it were a projectile that explodes, it would likely be a 'destructive device'; but there may be some exceptions for pre-1898 stuff.  I'm not the scholar on such things, but DD will likely render an opinion and quote the section and lines wherein it's covered.

In any case, obviously not something to be take lightly.

[KABAR2]

A civil war shell exploded would be fragments an unexploded shell is whole it

does not mean that it is filled with powder and fused, it means poor grammar most likely.....

[ron8578]

This is a 6" round cannon ball, from an estate in NorthCarolina.  No fuse is visible, several photos posted but none show the backside, evident corrision.  I beginning to think that nobody would post a live piece of ordnance.  Could a 6" round shell be a shell?
Ron 

[GGaskill]

24 pounder is not quite 6", more like 5.6" or 5.5".  It's possible that the lister didn't measure with calipers.  24 pounders I would think would more likely be shell than shot.  Not so many 24 pounder guns used as 24 pounder mortars or howitzers.  But it depends on the battefield.

[Double D]

A legal opinion  cannot be given on this site...we are not attorneys.  You need to contact ATF&E for an opinion regarding whether this is considered a destructive device.  You also need to contact youre State Attorney General for a determination as to it's status under your state law.

[Artilleryman]

My guess is that if it was fused they would have shown the fuse in the photo, since none is showing it is probably a shot not a shell.  Remember though that this is a guess.

[KABAR2]

"Cast Iron Cannon Ball, unexploded, Civil War era, from Sherwood Mansion, Flat Rock, North Carolina, 6".





Auction houses are notorious for poor descriptions yes by the looks of it is is "unexploded"
and most likely a solid shot........ we have seen photo's of cannons and mortars described as original
one of these "original bronze mortars"  had a steel liner.... for the most part these places rely on some
experience and  and auction listings to figure out what they have, most of these places unless they specialize
in firearms & ordnance items for a living don't do a very good job on descriptions.

[RocklockI]

would weighing it determine if it is hollow or not ?

[GGaskill]

It certainly should give them some idea.  There is a substantial weight difference between a 24 pounder shot and a 24 pounder shell.

[ron8578]

Thanks everybody for your responses and information.  I probably reacted too quickly without thinking it through.  It was a surprise to see a auction item described as"unexploded".  In the past, I have been contacted by others with their questions about artillery and ammunition and have always suggested caution to anybody when the question was concerning CW ammunition.  Its my policy that when you don't know what it is, expect the worst. 
Thanks again
Ron

[Terry C.]

Since a fuse (or a hole where the fuse should be) would be a distinguishing characteristic, I would assume that it would have been featured in the photos.

But then it pays never to assume anything where human beans are concerned.

[p51]

Its my policy that when you don't know what it is, expect the worst.

And that’s some good thinking! I primarily collect US WW2 stuff and one day on active duty, one of my soldiers handed me a rusted WW2 bazooka round they’d found on the back 40 of one of the training areas. I have several spent rockets and always look for more, but this one was rusted through the paint and I had no idea if the rocket motor was spent or not. No way could I (nor would I have) unscrew the nose to see if it had a warhead. Instead, I cleared out my orderly room, called EOD and had them come over with their bomb trailer. Turned out to be spent and I lost a nice item because they blew it up anyway to be sure, but better safe than sorry ANY day of the week. Treat all ordnance like you would a firearm. You’d never dream of pointing a weapon at someone while thinking it was “unloaded,” because we all know those are famous last words, right? Thinking something like this is inert because you don’t know any better or aren’t trained for it is equally just as stupid. And be wary of the self-described “experts,” because one of the EOD case studies I read at Aberdeen proving Ground mentioned a collector of civil war ordnance in the 1960s who was messing around with large shell he’d ‘confirmed’ was inert. They didn’t find too much of him afterward.

[KABAR2]

p51,

We had a well known collector & dealer in Civil War ordnance killed about two years ago by a naval shell his trained eye said was disarmed,
sadly the last casualty of the Civil war has probably not been written about for years to come,  I remember a story in one of the collector books
of some people that found a couple of Civil war shells that they set in their cabin as andirons they took a walk in the nearby woods after dinner......
they thought they heard thunder........ it was the end of their cabin destroyed by their newly acquired andirons.....thankfully they took a walk......

[p51]

p51,

We had a well known collector & dealer in Civil War ordnance killed about two years ago by a naval shell his trained eye said was disarmed,
sadly the last casualty of the Civil war has probably not been written about for years to come,  I remember a story in one of the collector books
of some people that found a couple of Civil war shells that they set in their cabin as andirons they took a walk in the nearby woods after dinner......
they thought they heard thunder........ it was the end of their cabin destroyed by their newly acquired andirons.....thankfully they took a walk......

Yeah, I knew about that. Quite a back and forth on a US military collector’s site about that, split between people like me who were trained to not blow myself up and the people who thought me and others like me were being over dramatic. Trust me, when you find yourself already in the middle of an impact zone that wasn’t on your map, you take on a totally different view of unexploded ordnance with a quickness! I’ll never forget the feeling, my driver looking over and saying, “Uh, sir, what are those?” And me looking up and seeing projectiles everywhere, even behind us. Thankfully most of the projectiles I could see were training solid shot tank 105 rounds and still retained their color coding. But there were other rounds that looked like they might have been HE shells with fuses still attached but I of course never got too close to those to look. I tip-toed my way behind the vehicle and we VERY slowly rolled back over our prior tire tracks. I swear I felt like I’d aged a decade in those few minutes. My driver wouldn’t talk to anyone for the rest of the day. At the edge of the impact zone I found one of those 105s sitting out in the open, solid canister-shaped shot and painted light blue. I kept it as a door stop in my orderly room afterward. I still have it at home as a reminder of how easy it is to do something really stupid:


Another case study I read about was some campers who found (I guess a large) Naval shell in Virginia. They rolled it to their camp site and one guy was sitting on it right next to the fire! The only reason they know this was one guy went off to find firewood and heard the explosion. Again, not much left of his pals. I think that was in the mid 70s, if memory serves.
I’ve been to the Belgian town of Ypres, which was one of the most intensely shelled places on Earth, for all of WW1. It’s illegal to dig with mechanical means in the town without a special permit and the farmers constantly dig up unexploded rounds and just dump them in the ditches alongside the roads. Signs on each road into town tell people to leave it all alone. It’s creepy to walk and drive past stacks of unexploded Krupp and other heavy caliber rounds sitting just feet away.
And all this on the heels of “The Hurt Locker” wiping out the competition at the Oscars. Any similarities between that film and any real life EOD people (or soldiers in general, for that matter) is purely coincidental, but that’s beside the point…

[Cat Whisperer]

I remember stopping on one of the range roads on the far South side of Fort Gordon - I'd passed no warning signs - got out to look around.  I'd thought it was the wrong time of year to see dry brown leaves all over.  They weren't.  They were rusted iron fragments from air-bursts.  Got back in and slowly backed out over my own tracks.  Kept a few for keepsakes.