Pet load for .223 in 16" barrel?

[KansasPaul]

Okay gang, I am looking for a load for my AR15....

I'm pulling my hair out.  I've tried 50 and 55 grain bullets, FMJ-BT, softpoint and V-MAX and I can't get this darn thing to group.  I'm using W748 which I have had good luck with in the past.  I've separated each bullet type with .5 grain increments from 25 up to 27.  I can't get 3 shot groups better than 1.5 inches.  I'm shooting off bags on a heavy table.  The rifle is Bushmaster with stainless barrel and 1:9 twist - it's got about 75 rounds down the tube.  I worked on the trigger today (lightened it) to see if that would make any difference - it didn't.  As for my shooting, my 45/70 handi will shoot 3 shot cloverleafs with bullets touching at the same range.   ARRRGGGGG!!!!

[chutesnreloads]

First get more rounds down the tube.Then try working up a load.May need to try a different powder.H-335,Varget,or one of the 4895's would be my next choice.Never be satisfied with what you're getting and you'll allways have an excuse to go to the range.

[dks7895]

My Stevens 200 has a 1:9 twist as well.  It shoots dime sized groups @ 100 yards with ease.  This is with 55gr VMAX over 27gr of H335.

[necchi]

What's your cleaning process? maybe it needs some fouling to preform proper, if you mixed some moly in with the jacketed it could through a hitch.
Are you crimping? if so maybe too much.?
just throwing out ideas.
Lot's of guy's shooting ar's are useing TAC

[Lloyd Smale]

I have a load of 24 grains of 748 and a 60 grain vmax that i use to test ars. Its been an exceptional accurate load in all of mine and if a gun wont shoot it well it usually wont shoot. Now that been said if your ar is a standard gun without a free floated forearm thats about par for the course. Sure ive got them that do better but 1.5 at a 100 is about average. If its a heavy free floated gun it should do better then that though. Another thing is are you using sorted brass or mixed. In a small case like the .223 even variations in lot numbers of the same brass can make a difference. Also small cases are more primer sensitive then large ones so you might want to try a couple differnt primers.

Okay gang, I am looking for a load for my AR15....

I'm pulling my hair out.  I've tried 50 and 55 grain bullets, FMJ-BT, softpoint and V-MAX and I can't get this darn thing to group.  I'm using W748 which I have had good luck with in the past.  I've separated each bullet type with .5 grain increments from 25 up to 27.  I can't get 3 shot groups better than 1.5 inches.  I'm shooting off bags on a heavy table.  The rifle is Bushmaster with stainless barrel and 1:9 twist - it's got about 75 rounds down the tube.  I worked on the trigger today (lightened it) to see if that would make any difference - it didn't.  As for my shooting, my 45/70 handi will shoot 3 shot cloverleafs with bullets touching at the same range.   ARRRGGGGG!!!!

[John R.]

60 gr. V-Max with a max charge of H335, Rem 7 1/2 BR primer, runs 2965 out of my 16" carbine. It will shoot 3/4" or better @ 100 yds. all day.

[Varmintnut260]

Ive tried 55gr sp with w748, bl-c(2), and h335 with good results. My rifles is a RRA with a chrome lined 16in barrel. All the loads aren't loaded very hot.

[KansasPaul]

thanks for all of the replies so far.... some details I didn't share are:

cases are sorted so that I am using one manufacturer - all were PMC, once fired, FL sized and trimmed.  No crimp.  I used Winchester and Remington 6 1/2 primers - CCI aren't available locally.

Regarding cleaning, I swabbed the barrel after every 5 shot group for the first 50 rounds.  All of the early rounds were Lake City 5.56.  Since then I have run a bore snake down the barrel after every 10 shots to make sure that I'm keeping it clean.  As mentioned earlier, the barrel is a fluted stainless steel and I expect that it should shoot well.

I have been tepid to the idea of using heavier bullets for fear that the 60 grainers would not stabilize in a 1:9 barrel.  I was also under the impression that best accuracy would occur at about 3200 fps.   I'll try the heavier bullets and less powder to see where this goes.

[chutesnreloads]

Try putting more than 10 rounds down the tube before cleaning....like 50 or 100.If there's nothing wrong with your rifle,at least one of the three bullets you have should give a decent group.Before buying more bullets I think you should try a different powder.Don't worry about what velocity someone tells you your gun should group at...that's going to be different for every individual gun and load combo.

[necchi]

Yup, I think it's the cleaning that's screwing ya up. Clean is a good thing, but those barrels can take a few days/weeks without cleaning, or at least just fire 10 "fouling shot's" into the bank or another target before you begin a test group.

I used to be very concerned with bore cleanliness too, then I got so much advise ta leave'r dirty, an low an behold, the groups came together

[KansasPaul]

I will try the fouling shot route and I'll be shopping for a different powder.  I knnow that H335 is a ball powder like W748 - I've never tried BL-C(2), is that ball or stick powder?  Based on the previous posts, H335 seems pretty popular - is there any truth to stick powder working better in the small .223 case than a ball powder or is this just one more myth? 

[dieselman]

Win 748 and bl-c2 are almost the same, with 60 gr v-max 26gr of 748 or bl-c2 will give me almost touching groups. Now it will make a big diff if the chamber is cut deep long jump to the lands I have found the Lee fac crimp die will help hold the bullet before it makes the jump to the lands. This has helped me out on a few guns and it works. Have you gotten better groups with factory ammo? I am also getting good groups with RL-15 it is a stick powder.

[KansasPaul]

The factory ammo that I shot was the Lake City military 5.56 and a handfull of Federal 5.56 - no commercial .223.  The factory ammo groups  were worse than my handload groups.  I hope to shoot  a few more rounds today if the weather holds out.  I have reloaded a few more rounds with the bullets seated a little less deep in the case.  These rounds will be right at the max COL for .223 specs. 

Feedback so far has leaned toward H335 and a 60grn V-Max.  Interestingly, when I went back over my notes, the 55 grn V-Max that I was shooting had the best of all combos that I tried. Perhaps going to the heavier V-Max is the ticket.  I called the only local gunshop that sells reloading supplies yesterday to ask about their inventory of 60 grn bullets -they had none.  Lots of 50 and 55 grn lead and ballistic tip, but no 60.  I leave for a trip tomorrow (going off the grid) and will be gone for a week - Arizona, hopefully I'll catch some fish - and I'll look for a gunshop or two along the way.

 

[deerandduck]

In my Bushmaster, I've found a load it likes.....  It also shoots good in my RRA 16"
Nosler 50 gr BT on top of 25 gr of Benchmark  in a LC case with WSR primer.  It shoots about 1/2" or so.  I have a A4 flattop with scope mounted.
I do agree with rest....  Get it good and clean and then  you have to fire some before it gets real good.
Deerandduck

[KansasPaul]

Went back out for a brief while again today - still having issues.  Best group was with 26 grns of W748, rem primer and 55 grn FMJ boat tail. I noticed that the gun shoots 55 gran bullets better than 50 grain bullets across the board.  I'm going to hold off until I can find some 60 grn bullets for comparison.

Keep the input coming!!!

Thanks to all - I really appreciate all the help.

Paul

[Land_Owner]

Try two things, less powder, and a different primer.  I too use Win 748.  Dirty stuff.  24.5 grains under Hornady V-Max 55 gr. bullets in a mixed bag of cases.  748 fouls the action in 200-300 rounds.  Fun as ice cream to shoot the M-16 though.  I didn't start shooting for groups until I got past the "Let-er-Rip" stage of five or six 30-round magazines.  Most fun I have had blowing $50.00 in a   L O N G   time.  After all, it's only money, right?  Naw, its much more visceral than that...now I am getting quarter size at 200 yards for a 10 shot bench rest group and I AM STOKED.  I did one string of rapid fire and the 2" group at 100 yards was a thing of PLEASURE.  Good Luck!