Author Topic: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?  (Read 3076 times)

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Offline trotterlg

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How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« on: March 03, 2010, 05:11:19 PM »
Just wondering what kind of safety you think is required of a CC gun.  I have two that I use, nothing fancy,  I have a 38 Cobra Derringer with a half cock and hammer block safety that I fee very confident will never have an accidental discharge, and a Raven 25 Auto that I would never carry with a round in the chamber because of the method it uses as a safety.  For some reason I think of this a lot when I have a gun tucked in the front of my belt and am sitting in the car, don't really know why...............Do you guys carry the hammerless single action auto's with a round chambered?  How about revolvers?  Not long ago here a guy dropped a 9mm down his pants leg and shot himself in the leg.  He lived, but it caused quite a stir in the food court at the mall.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline GH1

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 12:16:47 AM »
I carry my pistol in a paddle holster, one in the pipe and the safety off.  my wife carries her Kel-Tec, which has no safety, with one in the pipe in a pocket holster. 
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 12:46:43 AM »
Lesson 101: If you depend on a safety to keep you from shooting a gun then you will shoot it accidentially.
Safety is in not pulling a trigger.
Now; I carry my 1911's cocked and locked.
        I carry my sigs safety on---I flip the safety off and first shot is DA.
Have I ever had an AD----YES! Because I trusted too a safety-----NEVER AGAIN!
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Offline Brett

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 01:24:18 AM »
I carry a Kel-Tecp P-11 which has no external safeties in my waste band using their belt clip with one in the pipe.  I just keep my booger hook of it's long DA trigger and haven't had any problems.   
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Offline John R.

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 02:14:44 AM »
1911's are cocked and locked, Xd45's, one in the pipe ready to rock. If I can't carry a gun ready to go, then I wouldn't carry that gun!

Offline amdak

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 03:14:08 AM »
I carry a glock 26 in a paddle  holster one in the pipe always.i will sometimes carry my 1911 cocked and locked

Offline Graybeard

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 03:55:44 AM »
If it ain't ready to shoot when you pull it with no more than the pull of the trigger then it's not ready to defend your life when needed to do so. The ONLY safety that matters is the one between your ears. I have no self defense guns that require manipulation of any safety mechanism and you better betcha there's a round chambered at all times.

IF the SHTF and I need it I don't wanna hafta be thinking about what I need to do to make it ready. Mine are ready at all times.


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Offline gstewart44

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 08:07:06 AM »
I am a revolver type.   Either the ruger sp101 2 1/4" or my bobbed s&w 1917 2" inside pants holster with my baggy shirt over it.  DA revolver is ready to go with the pull of the trigger.  no worries for the family jewels.   
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 08:19:38 AM »
I like the revolver also but have carried autos . I agree with you have to be safe . I agree you can't trust a mechanical device . I can shoot a 1911 as fast as a Glock the safety on the 1911 is no problem really . Same for the revolver . But if you tote a gun with a safety you have to clear before shooting pratice .Some flip up to fire some down , learn one and stick with it . So far all have talked about carry and shooting . How about dropping it ? Carry long enough it will happen . How about bumping it ? scraping it ? What is safe if you have small kids in the home or auto ? A mag disconnect might be nice then . What type fireing pin ?
How safe ? I want it to go bang only when i say go bang . Then there is the thing about how you tote and can someone take it ..........
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Offline Old Fart

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 08:26:36 AM »
I generally pack a revolver so safeties aren't a concern.
Got a little 380 mouse gun I carry when I don't feel a need to carry anything.
I keep it stoked and ready. Finger is my safety on it just like the revolver.
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Offline Dee

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 08:29:34 AM »
trotterlg, I sold Raven 25s for a few months. The number one replacement part for that little gem was the firing pin. Why? Because it is also the EJECTOR, and a bunch of'em break. Yours may not! But it may, and you will get no second chance. A scary thought in a life and death fight. I would recommend another ccw for your safety in the event of a possible fight.

Oh! And I have carried most all the pistols and revolvers at one time or the other. After 40 years of carrying. I carry a Smith wheel gun.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 09:19:19 AM »
I carry a Glock 21, Its way more safer than I am!  ;)

Seriously, I have owned it and carried it for a long time, I have never had a problem with it. and it has one in the pipe at all times. Now it has never been jammed in the front of my pants! or the back for that matter!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

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Offline trotterlg

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 04:50:25 PM »
Kind of surprised that so many carry "off safe", guess it should not surprise me then that the guy in the mall got shot by a dropped 9mm.  Guess it must work though or there would be a lot more "difficulties".  I was reading about the Basket Ball? player who had his glock shoot him in a Chicago bar when he dropped it, are they prone to discharge if dropped?  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 04:59:09 PM »
I wasn't aware that he dropped it(I assumed he had a finger on the trigger when he pulled it from his baggy pants). Mine has hit the dirt a couple of times, not by design. It rides in my truck and on occasion has fallen. It never has fired unless I have my finger on the trigger, and then only when it was supposed to. Interested to see what others may have encountered.
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline trotterlg

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 05:57:42 PM »
It is an intersting thougt, would you be 100% sure your CC gun would not fire if you just pulled it out of it's carry position and dropped on a concrete floor?  Most likely it will happen some day if you carry long enough.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 09:13:38 PM »
How does that happen?
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2010, 02:52:47 AM »
It is an intersting thougt, would you be 100% sure your CC gun would not fire if you just pulled it out of it's carry position and dropped on a concrete floor?  Most likely it will happen some day if you carry long enough.  Larry

I'll be 65 later this month, been carrying since the weekend I turned 21, hasn't happened yet. Sounds like rather careless gun handling to me. Ultimately the only real safety is the fellow or gal carrying the gun and what's between their ears. If ya can't hold on to your firearm then perhaps ya shouldn't be carrying one.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline diggdug

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2010, 05:26:18 AM »
How can a Glock go off without something or someone pulling the trigger?  Please explain! Also, I would never carry a Raven for a CCW, too unreliable.
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2010, 05:37:28 AM »
I don't know how a glock could fire if it were dropped, seems it did happen however, it shot the guy in the lower leg.  I do know rifles can fire if dropped, that is one test you do when adjusting the trigger, bump the butt on the floor and see if the hammer falls, some times they do.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline John R.

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2010, 05:52:56 AM »
I think the incident you are referring to is where New Giants wide receiver Plaxico Burriss shot himself in the leg in a bar in New York City. He was carrying a Glock illegally, and shot himself in the leg because the gun worked just like it is supposed to (if you pull the trigger, it WILL go bang, and that's what happened.) There have been numerous drop tests done on a lot of high quality weapons. They don't go bang unless you pull the trigger. I'm with Graybeard, if you have a problem carrying your gun without dropping it, maybe you don't need to carry one. Also Dee had a great recomendation, get rid of that Raven before it lets you down at the wrong time. (No telling how many firing pins/ejectors  we have replaced at the gunshop)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2010, 09:55:31 AM »
Mine fell out when I fell off a ladder that broke . That's how it happened to me .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline canon6

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2010, 04:04:34 PM »
I have been carrrying since I was 17years old(50 years) Carried revolvers, 1911A1's cocked and locked. semi auto"s , chambered safety off  ets etc      I now carry a KelTec P11  13 rounds one in the chamber.No safety's , like Brett finger off the trigger untill    well you know the drill.   Doug
a armed man is his own master

Offline trotterlg

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2010, 05:35:14 PM »
All sounds reasonable to me, I wouldn't be in the least bit afraid to sit next to any of you.  Just my thoughts seeing where my gun points some times.  My thought on having a carry gun is that, in my experience, most bad things that happen don't do so instantly, there are usually a lot of things that add to together that make things  go wrong.  My gun is carried at half cock, safety on, in a holster and the holster is snapped shut.  There are times I un-snap it, some times I un-snap it and take the safety off, some times I pull it and put it in my pocket with the safety off with my hand on it.  Some times I just put it in the glove compartment of the car on a trip.  I would say that I probably have a gun avaliable more than one instantly ready to use.  I am comfortable with it, so I guess life is good.  Very interesting thoughts here.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2010, 08:05:41 PM »
Hey Shootall
Are you a second story burglar? ;) ;D
Blessings
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Offline Brett

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2010, 04:11:35 AM »
I have been shooting for some 35 years. I have yet to drop a gun while handling it and when I put a gun down I place it where it is unlikely to get knocked on the floor or ground.  I know to never say never but with due diligence the odds of it happening are slim in my book.


Why do so many of you folks fret about dropping your guns anyway?  Are you all that clumsy?  How many of you have actually dropped a gun?  If you have maybe you had better asses your gun handling practices. No more gunslinger gun twirling.   Like someone else said most modern firearms are very unlikely to go off if dropped from hip height anyway.   Keep your brain engaged and your finger off the trigger until the time is right and there likely wont be any problem.     
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Offline Dee

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2010, 05:17:05 AM »
I have been shooting for some 35 years. I have yet to drop a gun while handling it and when I put a gun down I place it where it is unlikely to get knocked on the floor or ground.  I know to never say never but with due diligence the odds of it happening are slim in my book.


Why do so many of you folks fret about dropping your guns anyway?  Are you all that clumsy?  How many of you have actually dropped a gun?  If you have maybe you had better asses your gun handling practices. No more gunslinger gun twirling.   Like someone else said most modern firearms are very unlikely to go off if dropped from hip height anyway.   Keep your brain engaged and your finger off the trigger until the time is right and there likely wont be any problem.     

Well, I tell ya Brett, and this is not to pick at ya. I've been a L.E. weapons instructor, and ex-SWAT Team leader, for about as long as you say you've been shootin, and I have dropped guns in fights, foot pursuits, arrests where someone didn't want to be arrested, and when I needed both hands because of a DIRE SITUATION developing suddenly and with out warning, where I needed both hands. So it can, and does happen. Now my circumstances were considerably different than just about everyone here, but it can happen, and has happened, and will happen.
I've seen weapons fall more than a story during a repell when the officer had a choice of falling himself, or losing the weapon. Was it ideal? No, but it was better than losing the officer. I can also tell you about a certain epuipment company dropping off some tactical holsters to a dept. and a good friend running across the parking lot, and getting shot in his leg by his holstered 1911. Seems this new state of the art holster they were trying to sell to a SWAT team had a propensity to not only knock the thumb safety off, but pull the trigger also. It was supponse to be a very safe holster for tacical and had a large retaining strap ACROSS THE GRIP SAFETY. :o
Sometimes it has absolutely nothing to do with gun handling practices. It just has to be done, when things get physical. You can't in my past profession shoot everyone that won't cooperate, nor in every private sector confrontation. I will match my skills, ability, training, and experience against just about anybody, but it can happen, and it doesn't necessarily mean incompetence.
The athletic moron in the bar, as I understand it stuck a charged Glock in his pants UNHOLSTERED. Being a Glock armor for about 20 years, I can tell you that was real stupid. If it had been a dropped glock you would have never heard anything about it. He could have thrown it out the car window going down the expressway and it would not have discharged. It has a "striker" not a hammer. The Glock is a very safe gun unless you pull the trigger. I won't condem someone whom has dropped a gun, but I don't recomend it if there is an alternative.
The real key to this topic is one, be careful, two, buy a quality firearm that will withstand a drop or even a throw, and not some Saturday night special just because it's little, and last but, certainly not least. NEVER SAY NEVER.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2010, 06:59:19 AM »
I carry SIG handguns, there are multiple internal passive safety's. Each and every safety is turned off as the trigger is pulled. Without multiple internal failures the gun will not fire if dropped. As long as I keep my finger off the bang switch I'm satisfied it won't fire. I like the visual reference of the hammer on SIG's. It sorta says to me are you positive about all this? They are revolverish in that way and I like that.

I don't trust external safeties to stay engaged and would be uncomfortable carrying cocked and locked. If the 1911 were to have a 10# trigger pull it would be a different story, but that would defeat the purpose of the pistol. I don't understand all the internal workings of the 1911 nor do I care to. Those who carry one and understand them and are happy and I'm fine with that.  
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline Robert357

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2010, 10:46:28 AM »
Lesson 101: If you depend on a safety to keep you from shooting a gun then you will shoot it accidentially.
Safety is in not pulling a trigger.
Now; I carry my 1911's cocked and locked.
        I carry my sigs safety on---I flip the safety off and first shot is DA.
Have I ever had an AD----YES! Because I trusted too a safety-----NEVER AGAIN!
Blessings

I like your response the best!

I would also like to add a little more to the lesson you are trying to teach. 

There are many basic types of actions, but in semi-auto's the two that you will see most often are variations of either a hammer-based action or a striker-based action.

What you want to look for in the "inherent safety" of a firearm is what keeps the firing pin from striking the primer.  Some actions have things that block the firing pin, except when the trigger is pulled.  Some have disconnects in the grip that keep the firing pin from being struck.  Sometimes the firing pin is under spring tension (and kept away from the primer by a safety device that could fail) in a striker-based action.  Sometime the hammer is under spring tension (and a safety devise either blocks the hammers release or blocks the firing pin from being hit or blocks the firing pin from being able to hit the primer  -some of which could fail) in a handgun.

Each action with the right approach can be made "safe enough" but ultimately, the owner of the handgun must know and understand how the safeties work and know their limitations so they can practice safe ownership.

An old-style M1911-AI hammer-action semi-auto with a floating firing pin, if dropped muzzle down, could AD due to the weight/momentum of the firing pin hitting the primer.

Many striker-based action semi-autos have only a small safety sear keeping the spring tensioned firing pin from detonating the primer.  (Others have firing pin blocks, pins that raise the firing pin into the firing pin channel only when the trigger is pulled, etc.)

It is up to the firearm's owner to know their weapon and what its safety limitations are and then use their mind to stay safe.

There are a whole bunch of firearms I would not carry with a round in the chamber and there are a lot that I have no concerns about carrying with a round in the chamber.  It is all specific firearm dependent and that includes the condition of the safety system.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2010, 11:33:14 AM »
Quote
Why do so many of you folks fret about dropping your guns anyway?  Are you all that clumsy?  How many of you have actually dropped a gun?


Just wanna clear up my earlier statement. I have never "dropped" a gun while handling it! I have had one knocked off my tailgate by a petulant Labrador retriever.

My 45 has fallen out of the door of my truck, it use to ride on the floor at my feet. And at least once it got knocked out on the ground. I cringed and made mental notes about the future.  I am man enough to admit it. wondering about others.

In order to become a wise old man one must first survive being a young stupid one! 

Any handgun technique i had was self taught, My Father only carried a Browning shotgun. My Son has been taught correctly by me from my experiences.


“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: How "Safe" do you require your CC Pistol to be?
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2010, 01:17:17 AM »
William nope , But I have worked in some really bad areas over the years . Keep in mind the city here at one time was in the top 5 in murder rates . For several years it was #2 . There were shootings evey day and over 200 murders a year for a time.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !