Author Topic: Contender basics - need schooling  (Read 2433 times)

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Offline Blazin

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Contender basics - need schooling
« on: March 04, 2010, 09:13:14 AM »
Due to my small hands (short trigger reach) I've settled on a Contender over a G2.  I really have no interest in an Encore because I am not seeking the large testosterone calibers. 

As with any gun that's been produced for a long time there's favorable variants, and there's those to avoid like Hillary.  My hope is to get one with a rust preventative finish, and with a good trigger.  I've read about the Easy-Open, the Armour Alloy II, and the stainless models, but I must say I am a bit confused.  Can someone lay out the chronological basics of the various Contenders for me? 

I am not against getting a gun hard chromed (I already have a few hard-chromed and I love 'em), but I'm perplexed about the Armour Alloy company, and T/C's Armour Alloy II, specifically how do I tell which is which when I'm buying the gun? 

And I want one that fits as many barrel variants as possible.  I'd like to buy the right type of Contender first and be satisfied with my purchase.  In this respect it sounds as though I should avoid the Armour Alloy II models. 

Also, is there anything I should watch out for?

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 09:26:17 AM »
From what you've described I'd recommend stainless over armor alloy - that gives you the most barrel fit flexibility. Although you might find it easier to get a blue one and hardchrome it later. Alot of the used frames out there have had the easy open conversion done.

Some will tell you that "pre-fire" frames are superior to the newer ones; I've had both and no issues.
held fast

Offline Blazin

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 09:56:46 AM »
From what you've described I'd recommend stainless over armor alloy - that gives you the most barrel fit flexibility. Although you might find it easier to get a blue one and hardchrome it later. Alot of the used frames out there have had the easy open conversion done.

Some will tell you that "pre-fire" frames are superior to the newer ones; I've had both and no issues.

Thanks for the help.

How can I tell a T/C Armour Alloy frame from one that was sent somewhere to be hard-chromed?  Is there a mark, or a unique serial number?

And what's pre-fire?

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 10:08:14 AM »
I know AA barrels are usually marked, not certain about the frames. My understanding is that they only work with each other if they've not been modified. But good question ... perhaps someone else will chime in on that.

There was a fire at the plant is my understanding some time in the 90's, and after that there was some suspicion that quality control dropped when they retooled.
held fast

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 10:10:17 AM »
In the 90's the factory caught fire.  so frames and guns made before the plant burnt down are Pre Fire.
Similar to the Pre 64 Winchester stuff-  Some will tell you the Pre - this date are better or soem will tell you the post are better due to new machines with sharp cutting tool and lazer precision.
Either way I don't think it matters for the standard shooter.
The only difference i can tell is the G2 is able to set the hammer, let it down and not have to break open the gun to reset the hammer.
For example you are in a tree stand and see a big buck.  you line up your shot and set the hammer, a doe steps in front of you and the buck, and both tramp off into the woods.  Now you let the hammer down.  With the G2 if the buck circles around all you have to do is reset the hammer and shoot.  With the earlier models you would need to reset the hammer ny squeezing the open lever.
Others of you that hunt in States like NC that give you 2 Bucks, 2 Does and an option or two would have looked at your 30-30 barrel and shot through the doe.

Offline DEACONLLB

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 10:32:09 AM »
I ask this same question on how to tell a stainless frame from the armor alloy and was told the aa frames had an aa before the serial number and the stainless had an s before serial number was also told that all the aa frames had to have the barrel fitted, I think it has to do with the barrel pin diameter.

Deaconllb

Go over to page two of this forum about half way down under Deaconllb and there is a lot more info. on this subjest
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Offline Blazin

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 11:46:11 AM »
I ask this same question on how to tell a stainless frame from the armor alloy and was told the aa frames had an aa before the serial number and the stainless had an s before serial number was also told that all the aa frames had to have the barrel fitted, I think it has to do with the barrel pin diameter.

Deaconllb

Go over to page two of this forum about half way down under Deaconllb and there is a lot more info. on this subjest

Thanks, that was a helpful thread.

Offline Blazin

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 11:46:49 AM »
So what's the serial number dividing point between pre-fire and post-fire?

Offline Keith L

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 01:20:25 PM »
I have never had anyone tell me that there is a real difference between pre and post fire.  They are all covered with an amazing warranty, so there is little to worry about.

I just pulled a couple of my original Contenders and a couple of my G2s out of the safe, and the "trigger reach" is so close to the same I can't imagine a problem.  In fact the longest reach is on one of my originals with Pachy grips and the shortest is a G2 with factory rubber.  And a good stock maker can move that reach in and out for you to just what you want.

Find what you like and make it yours.  They are all good.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline Blazin

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 01:41:32 PM »
I just pulled a couple of my original Contenders and a couple of my G2s out of the safe, and the "trigger reach" is so close to the same I can't imagine a problem.  In fact the longest reach is on one of my originals with Pachy grips and the shortest is a G2 with factory rubber.  And a good stock maker can move that reach in and out for you to just what you want.

Find what you like and make it yours.  They are all good.

Thanks!!!

Offline David D.

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 02:24:21 PM »
I have never had anyone tell me that there is a real difference between pre and post fire.  They are all covered with an amazing warranty, so there is little to worry about.

Find what you like and make it yours.  They are all good.

Couldn't have said it any better!!!!!!!
Dave D.

Offline Blazin

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 02:29:32 PM »
My primary concern was trigger reach, so if the G2 has the same trigger reach I'll just go with that. 

How are the trigger pulls on the G2's?  Not adjustable, correct?

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 02:43:33 PM »
Triggers are adjustable; my g2 is set to 2.5 by EABCO. Google G2 contender trigger and you'll find instructions.
held fast

Offline sbhg

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 03:11:24 PM »
It doesn't matter what frame you buy, you just buy a grip that fits you.

 http://www.bullberry.com/tcstocks.html
      
Will make a grip that fits your hand, look lower down on this page for grip instructions.
"Pistol grips are also available. Mail or fax a tracing of your outstretched hand for a proper fit."
They use some great looking wood.  
"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 03:17:58 PM »
I'd also recommend Ol' Georgia Jim for grips and forends. Here's what he did for me:



My G2 is wearing a lil' schnabbie forend and right handed herret style grip in gray laminate. Couldn't be happier!

* I'm certain when more tenderholics wake up, you'll be inundated with good advice. :)
held fast

Offline Dezynco

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 04:42:34 PM »
I've shot both the old style Contender and the G2.  The only thing that irritates me about the old Contenders is having to "reset"the trigger by breaking the barrel open (which makes a WHOLE LOTTA noise in the woods).  The only thing that irritates me about the G2 is that the trigger is just not as crisp as the old Contenders (which drags a bit before it breaks, and has no overtravel adjustment).

So maybe the G2 wins by a head by being just a little stronger frame, which only worth a hoot if you're shooting the big snortin' calibers.

Offline Ladobe

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 06:45:29 PM »
Comes down to personal opinions, but some is etched in stone...  ;)

Quote
As with any gun that's been produced for a long time there's favorable variants, and there's those to avoid like Hillary.

And in the Contenders that would generally be the Easy Open as the most favorable vintage out of all of them (circa 1981-1997).   The least favorable the last version easy open frames that started post fire (approx 1997-2000) unless they have been checked/fixed.   I doubt anyone except TC knows exactly where the cut-off is between these easy open frames and the last version of easy open frames that followed them (the ones with the replaceable lower breech face block).   See the next question for more on this.

Quote
Some will tell you that "pre-fire" frames are superior to the newer ones; I've had both and no issues.

Probably where this comes from (along with the answer to the above question), is that the TC plant fire (March 27, 1997), besides wiping out most of their muzzle loading and stock making departments, tooling and company records was followed by them making a major design change in the easy open Contender frames.   I doubt this was done because of the fire, but rather just a business decision already in the works AND production when the fire hit.  Either way soon after the fire is when the last version frames with the renewable lower breech blocks came out.   As with all of TC products after the fire they would have had reserve stock of some Contender frames to use up before the new change showed up in the retail market, further confusing the “when”.   Even so, I have one of the last version blue EO frames that I bought new, and it is from just after mid year 1997 (#4479XX).  But I have a stainless frame from the spring of 1998 that does not have the new conversion in it (#S396XX), so I don't know when the "S" frames got the conversion.    TC’s new idea looked good on paper maybe, but very poor quality control (at least soon after the fire) is what is wrong with these last version frames.   On this version the lower block was spot welded in, but some frames left the factory not welded at all (like mine) or so poorly welded that the blocks came loose either soon after being shot up to years later.   So these frames do have issues until they have been checked and if needed fixed by TC.   BTW, I hand carried mine to Tim P. (TC) at a SHOT Show, they rebuilt it under warranty and it has been a great frame ever since.

Quote
And I want one that fits as many barrel variants as possible.  

As has been said, you'll get the most interchangeability of barrels (without modifications), with the standard frames, blue or stainless (not Armor Alloy frames or barrels).   On the oldest barrels you might have to change the barrels locking bolts on them (from solid to split), but that's an easy fix with parts still free from TC.

Quote
The only difference I can tell is the G2 is able to set the hammer, let it down and not have to break open the gun to reset the hammer.
Quote
The only thing that irritates me about the old Contenders is having to "reset"the trigger by breaking the barrel open

And so the confusion and misinformation continues on and on...  You DO NOT have to open an easy open Contender frame to reset it after you've let the hammer down for whatever reason!!!   Gently squeezing the trigger guard part way WITHOUT opening the frame will reset it so you can again cock the hammer.

Quote
My hope is to get one with a rust preventative finish, and with a good trigger.

Finish: There is nothing wrong with the stainless easy open frames, or a blued one that has been hard chromed.   I've never had a problem with rust, etc on any of the many blued ones I've owned either though.
Trigger:  The Easy Open has a better trigger in every way than a G2, both to start with and after being tuned.   So the descision is already made between them if the best trigger possible is important to you.

Have fun with your Contender.

L.
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline Dezynco

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2010, 12:53:40 AM »
Quote
Gently squeezing the trigger guard part way WITHOUT opening the frame will reset it so you can again cock the hammer.

True, but if you have really tight locking bolts, and they do not snap back into place, the Old Contender may not cock, or may fail to fire.  Admittedly, the "reset" on the trigger of the old Contender is not too much of a problem if you know that it's there.  But as one post above stated, it can happen that you must reset the trigger during a hunt, and that metallic clinking sound is unbelievably loud when you're really trying to be quiet.

But back to the original post.  Blazin is looking for opinions about which model or finish would suit him best.  I'd say that I wouldn't turn down a good deal on ANY Contender (old or new), and I'm not partial to any particular finish!  They are all top notch, and I wish I had a trunk full! ;D

Offline mbopp

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2010, 01:02:41 AM »
Look at my avatar. I had Tony's Forends and Grips make me that set. I have small hands and Tony had me take a couple of measurements for the grip. Nice walnut, too.
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Offline mlk3454

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2010, 01:35:22 AM »
I'd also recommend Ol' Georgia Jim for grips and forends. Here's what he did for me:



My G2 is wearing a lil' schnabbie forend and right handed herret style grip in gray laminate. Couldn't be happier!

* I'm certain when more tenderholics wake up, you'll be inundated with good advice. :)

Georgia Jim still doing grips? The link I had doesn't work anymore?
~Matt

Offline Blazin

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2010, 02:44:30 AM »
I appreciate all the info, it's very helpful. 

Will Contender barrels fit the G2 frame?

Offline Ladobe

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2010, 08:42:29 AM »
True, but if you have really tight locking bolts, and they do not snap back into place, the Old Contender may not cock, or may fail to fire.  Admittedly, the "reset" on the trigger of the old Contender is not too much of a problem if you know that it's there.  But as one post above stated, it can happen that you must reset the trigger during a hunt, and that metallic clinking sound is unbelievably loud when you're really trying to be quiet.

It is a learned technique... guess you've either got the touch, or you don't.    :D

Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline Bullseye

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2010, 09:38:23 AM »
Wiil the old barrels fit the G2?  In my case - no.  I have a new G2 frame and none of my old barrels with split lugs will allow the gun to cock.  My two new G2 barrels work fine.  I have to call TC to get new lugs for any barrels I want to use on the G2, so I say their claim of interchangability is hogwash.  Very, very disappointed by this.

Offline DEACONLLB

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2010, 10:07:56 AM »
I would think that you may have a problem some where as I have never had a problem on any barrel that I put on the g2 split or non split. I know that sometimes you can have a problem and never figure it out, I have one older contender frame and only the barrel that came with it will work none of my other barrels will unlock split or non split, I finally gave up and left it as it was, I have 10 others that work fine, as you can see I dont like to change barrels :) :)

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Offline Keith L

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2010, 02:02:58 PM »
Wiil the old barrels fit the G2?  In my case - no.  I have a new G2 frame and none of my old barrels with split lugs will allow the gun to cock.  My two new G2 barrels work fine.  I have to call TC to get new lugs for any barrels I want to use on the G2, so I say their claim of interchangability is hogwash.  Very, very disappointed by this.

It happens that sometimes Contender Barrels need to have the locking bolts fitted to work properly with different frames.  It is a matter of polishing the mating surfaces.  You don't have to take much off.  In fact sometimes a good cleaning is all it takes.
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Offline Dezynco

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2010, 03:02:49 AM »
That's right, on older barrels, you may have to polishing the locking bolt(s).  When I get an older barrel that does not lock up properly, I drive out the pin that holds the locking bolts in (be careful not to loose the roller and spring).  Shine the top of the bolts up a bit and knock the corners down a bit on a very hard stone with a little oil to keep things flowing.  Don't polish the surfaces where the two halves ride against each other, no need to do that anyway.

This can be done while the bolts are in the barrel, but it's just easier to take them out.

All you are doing is giving a little shine to them.  Sometimes in the manufacturing process, little burs can be left behind.  Also, the bolts have such a close fit that sometimes they just need a little "convincing" to get them to snap into a new frame.  When you polish the bolts, imagine that you are "taking off a coat of paint".  In fact I have heard of folks painting the mating surfaces with a Sharpie and polishing them until the marker is removed.

Once you done that, reassemble and test.  If that does not do the trick, then work them a little more, reassemble and test......just don't get too carried away!  I've never met a barrel that could not be made to operate correctly by doing this.



See if this diagram helps:

Offline flipajig

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Re: Contender basics - need schooling
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2010, 02:23:51 PM »
I have a G2 and couldnt be happer along with 4 different barrels
all lock up fine and all will shoot providing that i do my part..
AIM SMALL MISS SMALL....