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Offline D Humbarger

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How hard is your lug?
« on: March 04, 2010, 11:30:28 AM »
Just rockwell tested the lug on the 12 gauge slug barrel that I am turning into a stub for my 375 JDJ.  It tested out to 30 on the "C" scale which is hard enough.  Interested to know what others have tested out at.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 02:15:21 PM »
I have no way of testing anything. Can you also test the hardness of the hammer?  I am willing to bet it's not as hard as some may think....

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 02:23:13 PM »
Underlugs are soft compared to the hammer, the underlug can easily be drilled, hammers must be annealed before they can be drilled, not that there's any correlation between the two. I seriously doubt many here have the option of testing metal, so don't expect many replies, if any, that answer your question.  ;)

Tim
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Offline Dinny

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 02:26:29 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on March 04, 2010, 02:23:13 PM
Underlugs are soft compared to the hammer, the underlug can easily be drilled, hammers must be annealed before they can be drilled, not that there's any correlation between the two. I seriously doubt many here have the option of testing metal, so don't expect many replies, if any, that answer your question.  ;)
Tim

I recently had a hammer shortened and drilled, machinist said he didn't even need to anneal it.  ???

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

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Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 02:27:45 PM »
Sounds like kind of a personal question.. ::)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 02:34:09 PM »
Quote from: Dinny on March 04, 2010, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: quickdtoo on March 04, 2010, 02:23:13 PM
Underlugs are soft compared to the hammer, the underlug can easily be drilled, hammers must be annealed before they can be drilled, not that there's any correlation between the two. I seriously doubt many here have the option of testing metal, so don't expect many replies, if any, that answer your question.  ;)
Tim

I recently had a hammer shortened and drilled, machinist said he didn't even need to anneal it.  ???

Thanks, Dinny

Then it was an exception, I've tried to drill several, they're were all too hard to drill except one old pre-transfer bar hammer that I did. I just did another this week, a cobalt drill would only make a shiny spot on it.

Tim
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 02:39:37 PM »
I tried a hammer with one of my high speed dental drills (turbine going about 450k rpms) with a diamond drill bit......I made it through but it was REAL slow going.    That hammer was one of the hardest things I have come up against in 30 yrs of drilling.   
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 03:06:47 PM »
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Offline Dinny

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 06:02:06 PM »
Wow!  I'm most surprised.  That same hammer I had shortened was the one I did my first trigger job on.  I took a little too much off of it and determined it was still good for a hammer shortening experiment.  I have several hammers so I identified that one by marking it with a spring-loaded center punch. I punched 4 spots onto the hammer, two on each side.  Machinist said that told him enough that he didn't need to worry about annealing it.  Shortened it on a bench grinder and drilled and tapped it for the Win extension. Now he has 4 more, but much less time for my low-paying jobs right now.  I'll ask him if he had the same luck when he finally gets these done. ;)

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 07:09:32 PM »
The hammers seem to be hardended like the ejectors are.  When I machine ejectors or extractors, they are very hard.  I have to anneal them just to just to cut them with a carbide end mill.  The hammers I can understan having real hard, but the ejectors don't need that kind of hardness.  Probably a one size fits all kind of thing.  They are all made by the same method I think, so they all probably go through the same hardning processes.  Larry
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 11:58:53 PM »
In my experience most parts on our handis are only "surface" hardedned. This IHMO is the biggest reason many smiths will not do trigger jobs on them. If ground too much, you go thru the harneded metal and the trigger is "ever changing".
  I have had some sucess re-hardening with heating and dropping it into dirty motor oil.

CW
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Offline D Humbarger

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2010, 02:49:27 AM »
If you need to reharden your parts use Kasenit.  No guess work & you know what the results will be.



Application instructions (from Kasenit) for Low Alloy or Low Carbon Steel:
There are two methods of application.
Method A: Heat the work uniformly to a bright red (1650 - 1700 degrees F), remove any scale with a wire brush, dip, roll or sprinkle the Kasenit powder on the component. The powder will melt and adhere to the surface, forming a shell around the work. Reheat to 1650 - 1700 degrees F, hold at this temperature for a few minutes and quench in to clean cold water. This will give the component a completely hard case of uniform character and depth.

Method B: If a deeper case is required, then a container for the compound can be used. A discarded can, lid or tray is suitable for this purpose, but care must be taken to burn off the tin coating before use. Completely cover the component with compound and heat to a bright red (1650 degrees F) for five to thirty minutes, depending upon the depth of case required. Quench only the component in clean, cold water unsing dry tongs for handling.

Rates of Penetration: After heating the component to 1650 F using method B,

Case depth .005, Time 15 minutes

Case depth .010, Time 30 minutes

Case depth .015, Time 40 minutes

Case depth .020, Time 50-55 minutes

Method for Cast or Tool Steel:
Heat the article to a light yellow. Deposit it in powder and leave it there until its right tempering heat is reached (see list below). Then plunge the metal into clean, cold water. This will bring out the hardness and also prevent cracking.

Heat Tempering List:

Small cutting or turning tools, cutting edges of knives, planing tools and reamers, small case hardened parts:
Light straw color, 440 F

Carbon steel milling cutters, large cutting or turning tools, slotting tools and small punches or dies:
Straw color, 460 F

Drills, small taps, profile cutters, screwing dies and hammers:
Dark straw, 480 F

Press dies, shears, wood cutting tools:
Orange, 500 F

Chisels, large punches, pressing dies and cutlery:
Light purple, 525 F

Saws, drifts, large dies and heavy chisels:
Purple, 540 F

Springs or portions of tools to be locally tempered to give maximum resilience:
Blue, 560 F


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Try to look unimportant.   Your enemy might be low on ammo.

Only Handi so far is a 375 JDJ.

Offline 26-t

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2010, 04:51:07 PM »
The Rockwell tester that I have at work will test a under lug, but if I take a barrel in to test I will not have a job when I am done. Nuke plant's Security don't allow such (Government work). 26-t
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: How hard is your lug?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2010, 06:35:42 PM »
From my experience the barrels are harder than the lugs are.  The H&R people electro stencil numbers on them so they are not anything special.  Larry
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