the 308 Battle Rifle

[jamaldog87]

well i work at publix supermarket and i have lots of time to read. Well i was reading Swat magizne and they were talking about how the m14 in the sand box was not getting the job done and how the wood stock guns are hard to make into a sniper rifle.  Anyways which of these 4 rifles the CETME .308 Battle Rifle, G3, FNL, and the m14 is the best one?  The m14 aways makes me think of the rem 740/7400 and the the rest i have never seen less shot one. But i think the G3 is the best becuase it still used and the Pakistan Army and many middle east governments seem to keep useing them so they seem to do the job.

[mcwoodduck]

If you were issued any of the above you would be well armed.
The G3 and the Cetme are the same H&K gun the Spanish just license the G3 and have a few modifications to it.
So of the three (actually 4 as the Fn- Fal has two different models the Inch and the Metric models, but they function the same)
My personal choice would be the M14.  I shoot one very well.  And companies have been making plastic stocks for it for years, now you can have composit, composit with AL bedding, and even an all AL stock. The M14 / M1A Beretta M59 are just box magizine versions of the M1 Garand.  The original M14 was select fire but it is hard to hold onto and most were issued with out that feature.  The G3 and the Fn FAL too have been select fire and are a handful to shoot.
All three designs have holes in them to let in goop, sand or water, all three have plus features unique to each.  Being a salesman I would focus on the unique features that the others do not have if I wanted to sell you on a particular rifle.  Look at the article and see if this is one of the fans of either rifle and wants the Military to adopt A or B. 
No mater, whitch of the three you have it is a good rifle.   Heck a Mauser 98 in 308 is a good battle rifle.  Low volume of fire but still a good battle rifle that too has some short comings like the three autos.
My friend really liked the G-3 and had one of the Springfield models for a while and he liked the claw scope mount that allowed him to shoot a big scope 6-18X40 with a target dot, a low power 1.5-5 X20 and open sights by simply removing the claw.
I would still out shoot him with my Garand when we would shoot open sights and I shoot my other buddies M/1A a lot better than I do my Garand. 
I am not a fan or follower of the FN- FAL I have shot one of the Metric models and it was a fine rifle but it did not make my "teeth sweat"
as my friend Caren used to say.
And like the G3 the M14 is a service rifle.  there are sniper/ match versions of each and the machining is a lot tighter and therefore more likely to get gummed up by sand and dust.  But you would need to compare the PSSG H&K sniper rifle to the M-14 sniper guns to get a comparison.  Comparing a standard G3 to a sniper M-14 is not really fair.  Like comparing a race car to a pick up.  Yes the race car goes faster but look at all the maintenance and staff needed and the pick up will just drive and drive with only minor maintenance.

[jamaldog87]

one of the things they talked about was it not a front line gun like m16,M4, or 240 saw and so it would be hard to get the stuff for it and it cost a lot to make it into a better shooter. Also it stands out over a m16. there were going by the wood stock one from Vietnam.  One thing they said was the only ammo for it that could be had was the
M240 machine gun belt ammo.  Me i would have a  United States Army Squad Designated Marksman Rifle m16 and be happy with it. Most of the ranges are not that far.

[mcwoodduck]

OH I see what you are going for.
Yes if everyone is toting an M4 and you have a M14, G3, Fn Fal then everyone knows you have a 308 and you are the one that is the long shooter and that, the Saw, Brass, and the bolt action make anyone carrying it a target.
There have been some talks about using the AR-10 as the marksman rifle.  Same AR profile but in 308 instead.
Ammo is ammo.  And the M249 shoots ball, tracer and AP (armor Peircing) and all could be a benefit for a marksman.
AP to get through bunker wall or building wall, FMJ is your standard stuff, and the Tracer could be used to illuminate a target for the rest of the squad to shoot at. (Army officers carry a Full 30 round mag of tracers for this same reason)
I was never a fan of the tracer, but in ROTC they taught us to load three rounds then a tracer and load the rest of the mag.  That way when a tracer poped out you knew you had three rounds left in the gun.
As far as parts, any thing that is issued should have parts in field.  M1A is still made and parts are available.

[AtlLaw]

Thing about tracers you got to remember is, if a tracer shows you where it's going, it shows them where it's coming from!  Very seldom used the stuff myself... Suggested my Troopers not use it either... 

[mcwoodduck]

I said they issued and told us.
I always thought it was the reminder to roll out of the way and reload.
There was a Captain talking about Afganistan on the History Channell not to long ago whenre he said he was shooting at the Taliban and was suprised that they were shooting back with some accuracy then he realized he had loaded his marker mag and said I thought " what a bad F.... Bleeping Idea that was.  Never carried one again in his ammo pouch.

[Mnswede]

Centme was designed from the Sturm Gewehr 45 and gotten from HK at the end of WWII.  Centme has so so sights and is it's weak point.  It is a typical 2 inch MOA battle rifle.

HK G3 was designed from the Centme and bought back from Spain.  Sights are way better than Centme and the two down things of this rifle are barrel spline marks on brass, and the bolt closes on chamber vice locking back open on the magazine after it's empty.  The Germans did build a sniper rifle based on the G3 system but it was a very expensive system to build and it's weight was about 17 lbs.

FNFAL is the most produced battle rifle  after the AK 47.  The sights are standard battle types and the rifle is easy to maintain and shoot.  The FAL is just like the G3/Centme, in that they are standard 2 inch MOA battle rifles.

M-14 is more accurate and can be made more accurrate than the above rifles.  The rifles used in Iraq and Afganistan aren't sniper built rifles, but Disignated Marksman Rifles.  I don't believe there are any sniper built M-14's in service since I believe the military is using AR-10 type rifles for sniping.  I believe the M-14 system is more accurate and has alot of parts that can upgrade this rifle to a better weapon.

[jamaldog87]

in what i was reading there were few parts and the ammo was from belts of M249 at least that what they said.  I think we need to spent the taxs dollars on a new DMR. They just got a new m4 upgrade kit. The m14 is old(at least the ones that are being used over there) the FNH SCAR  in 308 would be a good one.  the US 75th Ranger Regiment is useing the them. the  Mk 16 Mod 0 will be replacing the M4A1, the Mk 18 CQBR and the Mk 12 SPR currently in SOCOM service. The Mk 17 Mod 0 will replace the M14 and Mk 11 sniper rifles.
 

[Swampman]

The M-14/M-21 is a great rifle.  I don't see why G.I.s would have trouble getting ammo.  They are using 7.62 boltguns too.

[mcwoodduck]

You are back to the whole NEW gun for the army arguement.
Gun Writters love this topic as the can speculate this way or that about what they want to see.  The gun rag guys get invited to shoot this or that from the different people to hope and pray they may sway one group or the other into taking what they sell.  The bigger the field for a new contract the more magizines they will sell and the more lead they can run down range.
You are going to have arguments of Caliber, Design, materials, accessories and how much crap needs to be hung off the gun, from nothing to the kitchen sink.  
With the caliber you have amount vs. power the larger the round the heavier and the less ammo you can carry with out giving up something else.  Basic trooper can only carry so much gear, food, water and ammo and any add in one will subtract in another area.  In WWII the standard ammo load was supose to be 88 rounds of 30-06, 210 rounds of 223 in 30 round mags weight the same as the 88 rounds of 30-06.

In reality the M16 / M4 does 95% of what the Army need in a battle rifle and in the few places or situations that it does not other weapons could be issued either out of moth ball or purchased new.  If the M14 was not a good fit or had a huge failure rate the troops would be calling for something else and the Army would be issuing different rifles through the Special Forces to field test what they wanted to replace the M14 as a long range battle rifle.