Author Topic: You all almost had me convinced.... (Read 1268 times)

Bullseye · « **on:** March 08, 2010, 01:53:00 PM »

The following is my opinion and for discussion only since we all know recoil is subjective per individual.

I have had a 10" 44 Mag barrel for a lot of years. I have not shot it for about 5 years. Was going to sell it at one time but then realized it was not going to bring much plus it is my only 10" barrel left that is legal for deer.

All I hear about is how horrible a 10" barrel in 44 mag kicks. Most people say it is one of the worst barrels for recoil. I think I was about convinced of this from reading this for so many years and not shooting my barrel. I had even thought about trading it for a 14" barrel.

Well, I got it out tonight just to see if the recoil was so much worse than I remembered like everyone else thinks. I was shooting mid range IMR 4227 and a 240 gr bullet and also shot some upper end H110 loads with 240 gr bullets. After shooting it, I just do not feel the same as most others. The recoil is just not that bad to me.

Other barrels I have had or have that kick worse in my opinion:
45-70
375 Win
357 Max (this round always pounded back into my hand and twisted my wrist to the point it hurt)
35 Rem
30-30

I would say that most of the rounds above should kick worse than a 44 since they are rifle calibers, but I have read where many others say the 44 is worse than anything other than maybe the 45-70.

Anyway, I am not trying to start a fight because recoil is different for each person. I just feel that in my opinion it is an unfair to label the 44 mag in a 10" barrel as the worst kicking of any Contender barrel since everyone views recoil differently.

yorketransport · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:25:44 PM »

For me the 10" 44mag got unpleasant as soon as I moved up to the 300gr bullets and a case full of H110. Everything leading up to that was noticable but not bad.

Andrew

flipajig · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:28:51 PM »

Ive never shot a 10'' 44mag but i have a super 14 44mag and a 3030 and a 7-30 waters and i dont think the recoil is all that bad

pab1 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2010, 05:26:12 PM »

I don't understand the bad reputation everyone gives the 10" .44 barrels either. I know, recoil is felt differently by everyone. IMO the 10" barrel is about in line with any other .44 mag revolver I shoot, whether with light or heavy loads, but much more accurate. You get a rig thats about the same size as a 7.5" revolver with 2.5" more barrel and no cylinder gap. I have two 14" .45-70 barrels, one is ported and one is not. I notice a little more recoil than a .44 with the ported barrel. The unported barrel is another story. Its very accurate, but its not one I want to shoot all day.

Hafast · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2010, 01:59:57 AM »

I think the 44's bad rep comes from when they were first introduced. They would split the web of your hand due to the design of the first grips. Mine bit me and I never fired it again. I had a line of macho guys wanting to buy it. The first three who test fired it cried. Not yelled, they literally cried. The one who bought it reworked his grip with athletic tape and finally got a relatively comfortable to shoot weapon.

DEACONLLB · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2010, 03:17:53 AM »

I have one and can not shoot factory loads as it tries to beat me up, I had one of the fellows load me up some 240 cast with 6 grns. of unique and now it is plesent to shoot. First time I shot it, it tried to get to my head, I was ready the next shot and it really jumped at me, that is when I switched to 44 special.
Mine is the 12 inch but after getting the reduced loads it I can handle it ok.

Deaconllb

Keith L · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2010, 12:10:05 PM »

I think the original octagon barrels may have had something to do with it as well, being so light.

Lon371 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2010, 01:23:19 PM »

I have a .357 maximum super 14. I know it dont compare, because it is a 14" heavier barrel. But I am shooting 170 and 200 gr over full load h110. I was scared when I got it. I am "recoil sencetive" but with the pachmyre grips it is very easy on your hands and wrist.

I have shot the neighbors Blackhawk .44 8" barrel. I do not like it at all. But it is lighter than my Contender and the grips are to small for my hands.

I wonder if the folks who dont like the 10" .44 have tried different grips?

Lonny

Bullseye · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2010, 02:32:14 PM »

Funny you mention grips. I shoot the standard factory competitor grips on all my Contenders, even with the Super 14 un-braked 45-70. Thought about changing over the years, but after 15 years of shooting them I am just used to the competitor factory grip.

Another interesting thing I was reminded of last night. I shoot IMR 4227 in my big bore pistols because I get so much less blast and flash than H110 even though I give up some velocity. I do have a 44 Winchester Trapper that will not shoot 4227 worth a toot but loves H110. That is why I had some H110 loads. Anyway it was about dark when I was shooting and the flash and blast from H110 is just as I remembered. You could roast some hot dogs with the flash from the H110.

Bullseye · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2010, 02:35:00 PM »

Hey Lonny, see you are from Indiana as am I. I was reading the deer harvest report for 2009 today and it said that only 1 percent of the recent record harvest was with a handgun. I would have thought it would have been a little higher. Maybe a lot of hunters are like me and leave the handgun at home more since we can use the PCR rifles.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2010, 03:28:37 PM »

Question for all you Thompson Center guys. Would a 10 " 44 mag have more recoil than a model 29 S&W in 44 mag with a 6 inch barrel? I shot one for years and although it had a good healthy recoil it never made me wince or cry. Are the grips on an old Thompson that bad?

shot1 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2010, 03:46:18 PM »

The KICK of the old light octagon barrel and the early, what I call plow handle grips, would paralyze your hand and arm with one shot. It would push straight back into the web of your hand and hurt you. The later hand forming to grips that let the pistol role up in recoil and the heavier 10" barrels became a pussy cat compared to them.

Steve P · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2010, 04:23:19 PM »

Recoil is both subjective and objective. Objective means you and others can see it. Subjective means only you can perceive it or feel it. Very few contender barrels lack objective recoil. Even the .22LR kicks to a degree that can be seen by others. None of us have the ability to perceive or feel the subjectivity felt by the shooter.

Newton's law of motion comes into play here. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The ammo fires, the gun recoils. The gun recoils, the shooter attempts to tame recoil. The shooter attempts to tame recoil, the recoil reacts to shooters actions......da da da....

Grip strength, wrist strength, bicep strength, shoulder strength etc are all attempting to tame that recoil. Each of us will perceive that recoil differently depending on the strengths we have and actions we use to tame that recoil. There are also differences in gun grips, gloved hands vs ungloved, etc. Bullet acceleration, time of powder burn, time and position of pressure build within the action etc all play a role.

My 10" 357 Max when shot in my normal position will, upon recoil, bring my shooting arm up to almost a 45 degree position above firing position. My 30 Alaskan, when fired in my normal position, will drive that grip straight back into my wrist, forearm, shoulder, and whole body. It is painful and intense. From a distance someone would think the arm moving up from level to 45 degrees was a lot of recoil so the 357 Max had the most recoil. Someone up close would see the entire body soaking up the recoil from the 30 Alaskan and see the amount of recoil it generates. Each recoil is tamed in the manner necessary based upon the subjectivity and perceptions of the shooter. That same subjectivity and perception the shooter experiences is what triggers their conscious and unconscious reaction the next time the gun fires. They may not like the way they feel. We cannot see or feel how they feel. Well, if it is painful, we may be able to see them exhibiting signs of pain, but we cannot actually see the pain.

My dad can shoot full house loads in his 357 and in my .44. His 9mm semi-auto hurts him and he doesn't like to shoot it. Go figure.

Can't always categorize recoil by caliber........but most of the time......you can be pretty darn close. It only depends on you, the shooter.

Steve

securitysix · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2010, 05:41:51 PM »

First time I ever fired a .44 Magnum Contender, it was a 10" barrel with Pachmayr Grippers and a Pachmayr fore end. Had my reflexes been a fraction of a second lower, I'd have taken the full brunt of the recoil squarely in the face. Fortunately, I dodged enough to not get hit, and even more fortunately, I managed to hang on to Dad's T/C. The next few shots went much better since I knew what was coming and was hanging on better. I was 14 at the time.

To this day, I maintain that it's the hardest kicking handgun I've ever shot (even compared to my Ruger Blackhawk with plow handle grips and "Ruger Only" loads). I will say, though, that my 4" 657 Smith is pretty abrupt with full power loads and the wooden Hogue finger groove grips that came with it. I swapped out the grips between it and the Hogue Monogrips from my 6.5" 624 (only other square butt Smith I have) and will probably still mostly relegate that 4" gun to lighter plinking loads. I can always run hot loads through the 6" 657.

I've also shot a 10" .30-30 Winchester barrel and it's somewhat louder than the .44 Magnum, but I don't think recoil is nearly as bad. I've never tried a .45-70 or .35 Remington barrel, but I've been told by a few people that the .35 Remington is almost unbearable to shoot, and these are the people that introduced me to .357 and .44 Magnum handguns.

Bullseye · « **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2010, 03:42:01 PM »

Maybe that is why I do not think the 44 Mag is that bad if people think the 35 Rem is that bad. A Contender in 35 Rem was my very first handgun. Shot a friends one day and decided I needed one of them. Skipped the small bore handguns and went straight to the 35 Rem. It took about 100 shots with it before I ever got a group good enough to start adjusting the scope. But I conquered the beast and have been shooting Contenders ever since. Was up to 13 barrels at one time but started thinning them out and am down to 7 now.

Has anyone else noticed that bottlenecked cartridges seem to have more muzzle rise than backward recoil and the straight walls seem to have more backward kick and less upward rise. It may not be this way, but it seems that way to me.

yorketransport · « **Reply #15 on:** March 11, 2010, 05:45:01 PM »

Quote from: Bullseye on March 11, 2010, 03:42:01 PM

Has anyone else noticed that bottlenecked cartridges seem to have more muzzle rise than backward recoil and the straight walls seem to have more backward kick and less upward rise. It may not be this way, but it seems that way to me.

As a matter of fact, I have. I thought it was just me.

And my first handgun was a 14" 30-30 Contender. Man that was a lot of fun.

Andrew

doc-and · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2010, 10:24:07 PM »

Quote from: Lon371 on March 09, 2010, 01:23:19 PM

I wonder if the folks who dont like the 10" .44 have tried different grips?

Lonny

Never could get comfortable with the factory grips, now all my T/C's wear custom grips makes shooting the heavy hitters much better.

My 10inch 44mag

My 308Winchester Encore

docand

Slowpoke Slim · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2010, 04:20:18 AM »

Recoil is definitely a subjective thing. There are certain parameters that will influence the recoil, such as load, bullet weight, bullet velocity and rate of acceleration in the barrel, barrel length and weight.

I was once called everything short of a DEMOCRAT on here for telling a guy that a 10" octagon 45 Colt bbl won't recoil hard with standard Colt loads. I was told (by the same guy) that a 14" 45-70 bbl would kick less...

My buddy now has a 10" octagon 45 Colt bbl, and it's great fun to shoot! Very easy to manage with standard Colt loads. We have also loaded up some rather STOUT 300 to 335 gr loads with H110 and AA#9 for that bbl. They are a true handful to shoot, and my buddy doesn't like to shoot those AT ALL. I think they are a blast to shoot, maybe not 100 rds at a time, but still really fun. The biggest problem with that bbl and the stout loads, is the forend doesn't stay on! Every time you fire it, you have to find the forend. I told my buddy to duct tape it on there, but he won't go for it. Kind of funny, really...

I'm sure that same load in a 14" heavy bbl would be a whole lot of fun to shoot. The barrel weight, and length have a good deal to do with it.

Lon371 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2010, 07:39:47 PM »

Quote from: Bullseye on March 09, 2010, 02:35:00 PM

Hey Lonny, see you are from Indiana as am I. I was reading the deer harvest report for 2009 today and it said that only 1 percent of the recent record harvest was with a handgun. I would have thought it would have been a little higher. Maybe a lot of hunters are like me and leave the handgun at home more since we can use the PCR rifles.

I am outside of Salem, 20 miles north of Louisville as the crow flies. There are only a few guys around here using handguns. But the reason the handgun count was probably down is because in our area the deer taken was the worst ever. We have an over population of coyotes, and the deer are just not here. Verified by spotlighting compared to recent years. Also like you said several are using the rifles.

Lonny

Quote from: doc-and on March 12, 2010, 10:24:07 PM

Quote from: Lon371 on March 09, 2010, 01:23:19 PM

I wonder if the folks who dont like the 10" .44 have tried different grips?

Lonny

Never could get comfortable with the factory grips, now all my T/C's wear custom grips makes shooting the heavy hitters much better.

My 10inch 44mag

My 308Winchester Encore

docand

Sweet set ups

Lonny

P.A. Myers · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2010, 03:38:37 AM »

The early Contender grips were torture. Two hand hold was impossible. Big bullets=recoil, any caliber, any gun. I find factory 30-30 150g comfortable in my 10 octagon. 223 with 55g is some of your funest Contender shooting, big blast little recoil, small groups. Everyone should have one.

The T/C competitor grip is hard to improve on.

Those are some beauty Contenders pictured above.