Author Topic: Conical Loads for Elk (Read 4111 times)

Buckskin · « **on:** March 09, 2010, 03:58:35 AM »

I planning an Elk/muley muzzleloader hunt to Colorado in the Gunnison area this fall and was wondering about conicals. I read a good post about them from Busta posted a while back, but was wondering about velocities and powder charges. I've run Powerbelts before and have gotten mixed results, but I've always pushed the charges to the 130+grain loads. I see that most people run more near the 100gr charges for the conicals. Can you run them at higher velocities/loads? Are there any decent conicals that can run at higher velocities? Just want to be able to get the most velocity/energy/yardage out of them as possible with still keeping accuracy and bullet integrity.

Thanks!

ms · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2010, 04:03:45 AM »

http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/index.htm

Buckskin · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2010, 04:29:12 AM »

Forgot to mention that I'm shooting an Encore 50 w/ the 25acp conversion.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2010, 05:10:20 PM »

I don't have an Encore but my Omega does not like any full bore conical bullets other than the Powerbelts and then only at reduced loads. You might be lucky enough to have a T/C barrel that will shoot conicals but there are lots of them that will not. Some have cut the QLA off and managed to get decent results with conicals out of Encore barrels. I hope for your sake that you have the one out of many that will handle the conicals. I know there are a few that will but not many. I think you might be able to get decent results with the new Thor bullets. They are the most ballistically shaped bullets and made from pure copper so retention when expanding is great. They can be ordered in sizes from .500 to about .504.

hatchet10 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:57:42 PM »

Click on the link ms provided. No Excuses 460 grain 50 cal. is all you'll need.....

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:50:40 PM »

why do you need so much powder?? i killed an elk at 140 yards with a .54cal round ball pushed by 80gr pyrodex RS. she didnt go no more than 60 yards.

338gr Powerbelt
250-300gr Thor conical www.thorbullets.com these In my opinion are the ultimate conical as they are solid copper and will not fragment.

kctibs · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2010, 02:22:00 AM »

I just started using conicals in my Encore. I started out trying to use Maxi balls like I used in my side lock ML. My Encore would not shoot them at all, it does shoot powerbelt great though which is what I have been using and not tried anything else. I may try these Thor Bullets does anyone else have experience with them? I will have to measure my bore at the muzzle and I assume order bullets that are a thousandths under the bore dia. Is this correct?

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2010, 07:10:15 AM »

Interested in trying out the Thor bullet? Simply email or call Thor bullets and Request a Free Sizing sample.

This Sample comes with the following bullet sizes - .500" - .501" - .502" & .503" Diameter bullet. It is important that you start with the smallest Diameter Thor bullet & work your way up in Diameter size until you find the proper fitting Thor Bullet. This sample is free of charge.

All it takes is a Phone call or an Email.

Phone: (660) 244-5251
Email: toertwig@grm.net

Heres some info on the Thor II but this is a preproduction bullet i was able to look over and it wont be available until either summer/fall.
http://gandersmuzzleloadingblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/thor-ii-conicals.html

Masterblaster1 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2010, 10:24:56 AM »

I know its not a conical, but something else to look at would be a T/C Big Shot sabot, which is made with either a 325 or 400 grain .475" Hornady XTP. These would most likely be more accurate and would have plenty of wallop.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2010, 10:31:05 AM »

no sabots allowed in colorado

kctibs · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2010, 03:08:45 PM »

bigblock455
Thanks for the info on the free sizing bullet info I will shoot them an email and give them a try.

And yes you are correct on no sabots in Colorado which is where I live.

Buckskin · « **Reply #11 on:** March 27, 2010, 04:24:41 AM »

Quote from: bigblock455 on March 26, 2010, 10:31:05 AM

no sabots allowed in colorado

That is the whole issue. The good thing is that they removed that insane law restricting the length to 2x diameter of the bullet.

sabotloader · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2010, 08:17:50 AM »

Buckskin

One thing you will have to verify is that your Encore will shoot conicals. I shoot an Omega and a Triumph they both shoot these just fine. Only your gun can tell you for sure.

One option, and I think a great option for elk, is either the 460 grain Bull Shop or No Excuses lead conical. Both of these conicals will handle even a big bull.

I prefer the Bull Shop because Dan will size it to your bore and it then becomes a 'slip fit' bullet, no short starter needed. Loads just like a sabot.

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/contact.html

http://muzzleloading-bullets.com/

I shoot them with 90 grains T7

Forestclimber · « **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2010, 12:50:13 PM »

I think T/C sells a saboted 400 grain XTP bullet.

kctibs · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2010, 01:35:21 AM »

Quote from: Forestclimber on March 28, 2010, 12:50:13 PM

I think T/C sells a saboted 400 grain XTP bullet.

We have to remember that the Buckskin is planning a hunt in Colorado and no sabots are allowed.

Masterblaster1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2010, 05:29:15 AM »

Was not aware of that law in Colorado. Here in Michigan we can use just about anything for our big game, depending on what part of the state you live in, anyways.

SmithAC · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2010, 07:51:30 PM »

You might want to consider the powerbelt 444grain. It is legal in Colorado and shot well in my encore w/ BH209 powder.
Craig

moto357 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2010, 12:31:22 PM »

if yer not concerned with trajectory, which is probably the case being you are looking for a conical. i cast a 590gr gas checked bullet.. penetration is guaranteed

if you would like to try some let me know

Bigeasy · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2010, 12:50:49 PM »

I shoot flint / cap lock guns, no experience with modern inlines/break opens. But I'll take a few educated guesses. Modern in-lines are rifled pretty fast for sabot use. 1-66 twist is about right for a round ball. 1-48 or so works well with heavy lead conicals. I think it is a combination of overly fast twist, and the fact that a lot of in-lines are rifled shallow. Heavy, bevel base conicals may be skipping the rifling, with a little gas cutting to boot. You could try a conical sized right to your bore, and cast harder then pure lead, but that would be hard to load. I would look at a conical like the Hornady Great Plains Bullet, with a hollow base that will expand for a good gas / rifling seal. Load it with about 80/90 grains BP. It might work for you. Its the only conical I hunt with in my 50's and 54's.

Larry

whitetailmaniac · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2010, 03:09:45 PM »

460 gr NoExcuse shot extremely well out of a H&R sidekick I had. It was a 1-28. The charge was 80 gr of 777

Chris

AlbanyCO · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2010, 09:03:28 PM »

Try a hornady great plains bullet....big heavy all lead conical. Never used one on an elk, but I have killed several deer with them, and not a single one so much as took a step. 385 grains.

Casull · « **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2010, 07:52:52 AM »

Quote

Try a hornady great plains bullet....big heavy all lead conical. Never used one on an elk, but I have killed several deer with them, and not a single one so much as took a step. 385 grains.

That's surprising. I've shot probably a dozen deer in the past with .50 TC maxiball 370 grain bullets (all double lungers) and every one of them ran from 30 to 70 yards before dropping.

AlbanyCO · « **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2010, 08:39:39 PM »

How much powder? I was using 85 grains of pyrodex and I had no exit wounds. I was going for a heart/lung hit both times though rather than just a behind the leg lung hit.

AlbanyCO · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2010, 08:40:34 PM »

Also, is the maxiball a hollow point? The great plains has a huge hollow point.

Casull · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2010, 08:45:56 PM »

Load was 90 grains Pyrodex P. The maxi's are flat nose, no hollow point. But, after going to an inline, I used the same charge with a sabot and 240 grain hollow point .44, with the same results (probably another 7 or 8 deer with that load).

moto357 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:26:59 AM »

one more reason i love big pure lead conicals, dont need no stinkin hollow point to make em expand! big and slow

tacklebury · « **Reply #26 on:** July 30, 2010, 07:26:34 PM »

Quote from: AlbanyCO on July 12, 2010, 09:03:28 PM

Try a hornady great plains bullet....big heavy all lead conical. Never used one on an elk, but I have killed several deer with them, and not a single one so much as took a step. 385 grains.

+1 here. My Buckstalker is quite accurate using these and I don't think there's much they won't put down. They can be a bugger to get started, but once rammed home, they seal really good. Grouping about 3" at 100 yards with Iron sights. I am going out to try some with 777 for the first time hopefully this next week.

Buckskin · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2010, 04:29:53 AM »

Quote from: tacklebury on July 30, 2010, 07:26:34 PM

Quote from: AlbanyCO on July 12, 2010, 09:03:28 PM
Try a hornady great plains bullet....big heavy all lead conical. Never used one on an elk, but I have killed several deer with them, and not a single one so much as took a step. 385 grains.
+1 here. My Buckstalker is quite accurate using these and I don't think there's much they won't put down. They can be a bugger to get started, but once rammed home, they seal really good. Grouping about 3" at 100 yards with Iron sights. I am going out to try some with 777 for the first time hopefully this next week.

Do yourself a favor and skip the 777 and try BH 209 instead, you won't have to deal with that damn crud ring and will be able to shoot as long as you want w/out swabbing between shots.

I will use the rest of my 777 (about 2 1/2lbs) for fertilzer or firestarter...

tacklebury · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2010, 03:21:07 PM »

Quote

Do yourself a favor and skip the 777 and try BH 209 instead, you won't have to deal with that damn crud ring and will be able to shoot as long as you want w/out swabbing between shots. I will use the rest of my 777 (about 2 1/2lbs) for fertilzer or firestarter...

I had heard of this also. Just around here, it's rarely available, and a LOT more expensive. I made a bore Pig with some copper scrapers at the back and will try them next week. If they work, the crud ring shouldn't be a big issue. Glad to hear you like the bh 209 though. I may have to pick some up if I can find some to test with. Have you ever used it in BP Cartridges? I also use the 777 for some .45-70 and .45 colt loads. Thx

Buckskin · « **Reply #29 on:** August 03, 2010, 12:16:33 PM »

I was kind of hesitant about trying the BH209 because I really did like the performance of T7. But man is that 209 great to work with and I won't be going back to T7. I don't have any experience with BP cartridges, and I don't even want to think about them. I have enough hobbies and toy's. I have enough hobbies and toy's. I have enough hobbies and toy's. I have enough hobbies and toy's. Some day I will listen to myself.