Author Topic: accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads  (Read 1916 times)

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Offline sabbatus

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accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads
« on: March 09, 2010, 04:00:22 PM »
i'm just wondering what kind of accuracy you guys are getting from your b.p. loads in the 45/70.  just started messing with black on a regular basis.  worked up a load using 70 gr (weight, not volume) goex cartridge grade, dropped through a 4 ft glass tube then compressed about 1/16th in., topped with a wonder wad, a sheet of news print and a 490 gr lyman 457677,cast of wheel weights, lubed in all grooves with a homemade lube that is based on a copy of emmerts lube with lanolin, loaded to seat in the rifling.  at 100 yds a four shot group measured 2.6 in wide and 1.9 in high out of my n.e.f. handi rifle and a 22 in. barrel.  i also tried 65 and 75 grains of the same powder a bullet but the 70 gave the best results.  the 65 gr. load had two wonder wads instead of just one

Offline Nobade

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Re: accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 02:23:18 PM »
Good start. Bet it'll shoot better if you use lead/tin for the bullets, leave out the antimony. Keep at it!
"Give me a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and I'll break the lever."

Offline John Boy

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Re: accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 05:58:43 PM »
sabbatus, you'll like the Paul Matthews designed Lyman 457677 groups even better with these suggestions:
*  Add 1 1/2% tin to your WW melt.  The bullets will obturate better in the bore
*  Use a Federal 150 Match or CCI Br2 primer.  The lighter primer flash doesn't disturb the powder ignition as does other primers
*  Add a construction paper or newspaper wad over the flash hole on the inside of the case.  It reduces the brisance of the powder ignition
Brisance definition... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisance
*  No need to resize your fireformed cases
*  Case neck tension on the bullet should be 0.001 to 0.002
Expander Plugs ... http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=18&subId=128&styleId=422&partNum=NECK-EXPANDER-PLUG
*  Do not crimp the case.  Just remove the bell of the case
Regards
John Boy

Offline longcaribiner

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Re: accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2010, 08:48:22 AM »
I shoot an old trapdoor and trapdoors were notorious for the wide variety of bore diameters.  I have a more peculiar reload method than most folks.  I have a plunger actuated spout that screws directly to the top of the powder can.  The straight sided spout is just the righ diameter to fit the case mouth of a 45-70 case.  I put the primed case on the spout tip the can up side down, push the plunger open and shake 4 times.  Take the case off the spout and the powder is about 3/8 inch below the case mouth.  I push the case mouth through an eighth inch grease cookie and then add a 457125 pure lead buller, lubed with cheese wax and sized in my 45-90 Ideal tong tool.  The bullet and case are then loaded using the 45-90 tong tool to 45-90 OAL.   I have never measured out the grains of powder, I never used a drop tube, I always use the same method to maintain consistency and always load up maybe a day before shooting, or even at the range.    I believe shaking the powder can as the powder swettles into the case, is fairly equivalent to using a drop tube.  Seating that long bullet over a grease cookie, also compresses the powder to the same amount everytime.   The bullet is still out enough that the last grease groove is exposed, however, when loading in the trapdoor, closing the breech cams the long bullet nose into the rifling ahead of the chamber.  So the bullet has no freebore to jump on ignition.  My results have been excellent considering that my gun has some minor pitting annd a who knows how oversize the bore may be.     

When last I attempted some BPCR silywets, I got 9 out of 10 rams at 500 meters.  (Couldn't hit the chickens or turkeys to save my life. ) 

Offline StrawHat

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Re: accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 02:06:13 AM »
I shoot an old trapdoor and trapdoors were notorious for the wide variety of bore diameters.  I have a more peculiar reload method than most folks.  I have a plunger actuated spout that screws directly to the top of the powder can.  The straight sided spout is just the righ diameter to fit the case mouth of a 45-70 case. 

longcaribiner,

Do you recall where you got that spout?  I remember reading about them in the 70s but never got to see or use one.    Sounds like it makes your style of loading a lot easier.
"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result"  Winston Churchill

"A law without a punishment is merely advice."  anonymous

Offline John Boy

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Regards
John Boy

Offline longcaribiner

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Re: accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 07:17:19 PM »
I won my can flask top/powder measure combo at a blanket shoot.  I am 95% certain that this is it:

http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/shop/item.asp?item=16713 

Where the measure fits over the valve spout is almost exactly .45 diameter.  Just right for slipping a 45-70 case mouth over. 

I'd call them to make sure.  I see in the on-line catelogue that they also sell just the can lid valve without the measure.

Offline RMulhern

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Re: accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 05:49:15 PM »
In my opinion the .45/70 cartridge using BLACKPOWDER is probably the most 'under-rated' of all the BPCR cartridges! I have over the past few years, when not shooting my .45/110 and .50/90 rifles...have fired some really nice groups all the way to 1000 yards. Several years ago I had Steve Brooks make me a slightly modified mould for the Postell bullet which has the upper two drive bands reduced to bore diameter so I can load the bullet outward such that I am able to load the case with a full charge of FFF powder and it works quite well! You asked about accuracy and I at one time had a photo of several 10 shot groups I have fired from 800 to 1000 yards but after two computer 'crashes' I lost them! Suffice it to say that I have shot several groups that scored very good; a 97 from 800 yards and two groups that were 95 from 1000 yds. This is on the LR NRA Creedmoor target where the 10 ring is 20" diameter! I don't recall the X count but I do remember the as posted scores! The .45/70 continues to post good scores in LR gong matches and I'm not certain about this but I'd think that it also holds it's own in the LR Creedmoor events as well!!

Offline Nobade

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Re: accuracy and b.p. 45/70 loads
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2010, 04:04:18 AM »
Yesterday I was shooting my C. Sharps 45-70 with the NEI Postell bullet cast from stick on wheelweights, over swiss 1.5 off the bench. Target was a 6 inch swinging disc at 300M Previously this load hadn't been all that great on paper at 100 yards, so I wanted to burn these up. I had my wife calling wind, and every shot went exactly where I predicted with the wind call. Most hit the swinger. Wow, this shoots better than I thought! Then I tried some Trapdoor loads in it, the Lee 405HB bullet over the same Swiss powder. Wow, these shoot good too! I had that swinger dancing around most every shot. I wanted to shoot some at longer range, but our gongs had been painted white and I couldn't see them without a scope. But the main thing is we all had a good time making smoke and entertaining the modern scoped rifle boys. All in all a good day at the range!   
"Give me a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and I'll break the lever."