K and L frame

[P.A. Myers]

What is the real differnce between the K and L frame? I think it is more than just the full lug barrel.

[Graybeard]

Size and weight.

The K-frame is the old traditional .38 Special and .357 Mag frame going back to the old M&P guns that later became the Model 10. When the .357 came out originally it was a MUCH hotter round than it is today and fired 158 grain bullets at 1550 fps. It's tough on light guns and was tough on hands in those days with roughly checked wood grips.

The L-frame was introduced to over come a supposed weakness in the K-frame to take a continuous diet of such loads. It is physically larger and heavier bulked up in the areas where the K was weakest.

About that same time tho the SAAMI specs on the .357 Mag were lowered and kinda in my opinion negated the reason for the L frame as now factory loads don't even push 125s as fast as 158s were originally.

I came into shooting the round just before the change over and well remember the hotter factory ammo available back then and the load data in all the manuals back in those days. The old .357 Mag really was a magnum back then and had some punch to it. I fired many thousands of such loads thru my first S&W 19 with no problems and have fired many tens of thousands of those older hotter loads thru many other K and L framed guns since.

I tend to prefer the K frame for my use but do admit the L frame is stronger and at least in theory should hold up to the shooting of those older hotter spec loads longer than a K frame will. After all the round was designed to work in the much stronger N frame Models 27 and 28 when it was introduced. Now it's being chambered in the tiny J frame and I'd not bet much on how long the little J frames would hold up to the loads we fired back in the early days.

[PawPaw]

Greybeard is right.  When the .357 Magnum came out, guys were loading it hotter, trying to find the upper limit of performance.  Back during the '60s and '70s guys like Lee Jurras showed us that the .357 Magnum could shine as a hunting firearm and some of their loads were pretty hot. 

Some of us still push the cartridge, using all the due diligence that a prudent handloader uses, but realizing that not all handguns are equal in strength.  I've got loads for my N-Frame revolvers that I won't use in my K-Frames.   

[P.A. Myers]

I recall a lot of Model 19s loosening up.

[Graybeard]

I recall a lot of Model 19s loosening up.

Do you PERSONALLY remember it with your guns or do you remember hearing folks repeat that mantra? I too have heard it a thousand times but my personal guns never have and back when I was shooting M19s was in the day when factory ammo pushed 158s to 1550 fps. I fired many thousands of such loads thru mine with no problems.

[P.A. Myers]

Yes, In fact two model 19s and one model 66. ALL repeat ALL 3 ended up with cylinder gaps over .018. I rebushed them and sold them. I wish I had kept the 3 1/2, tho.  My standard 357 load was 10 grains of unique and a 110 grain bullet. I prefer 2400 these days. It is much easier on the hardware. Never doubt me.   

[Mike in Virginia]

'Twas a sad day indeed when they dropped the Model 19.  Yes, they were weaker, but they could be replaced with a new one.  No more.  They are gone, gone, gone.  Now, you buy either a 5-shot J frame, a 6-shot L frame, or a weird 7-shot whatever.   

[Dee]

I fired thousands of rounds thru two Model 19s in particular, eventually shooting them out of time. I replaced the cylinder hands and kept shooting. When the cylinder stop notches got worn on the cylinders THEN I traded them. There is not a lot in a Model 19 to get loose. I have seen friends at Instructor only schools all but rebuild Smiths on a bench at the range.
The very worst I have seen in a Model 19 was a double dose of Bullseye powder, which would turn them into 3 shooters, instead of 6 shooters, and I have seen several of those. The Model 19 was, and is a GREAT 357 mag, and like GB, all this shooting I did with them was in the 70s, and early 80s. I have at schools, put 1,000 rounds thru one in a single day, without a cleaning, and never a misfire. I'm retired from that now, and wonder if I could hold up to that kinda training now at 60.

[skarke]

I have a new 627 V Comp in the dual tone.  The heft makes it a dream to shoot over the lighter SW frames, and I sure like the extra round in the cylinder.  Of course, it gets mostly pop gun loads for what I do (plates), but, it is obvious that it can take a pounding with the hottest currently available 357s without flinching.

[Dee]

I have a 686 Smith 2 1/2" that is like wise sharke. I carried a couple of 686 4"ers over the years, but wearing a gun belt 8 to 20 hours a day, nothing beat the K-frame Model 19. I even tried a couple of Colt Pythons, but the longer trigger pull and the weight made them not so desirable after a few weeks of wearing your gun belt and trousers belt in a tighter notch.
I also found that I was a second or two faster reloading with speed loaders with the K-frame than the L-frames. Something else to consider. But that was me, and not necessarily someone else.

[Rutin2tin]

Regarding loosening of a model 19 or 66 S&W K frame: I have yet to see one of those pieces loosen from shooting heavy .357 loads. I've actually experienced a loosened gun, ie, a Ruger Security Six, which is "theoretically" stronger than a K frame.   BTW: I traded that Ruger on a new Colt Trooper MkIII, back around 1980, and that's another solid .357.

[Lloyd Smale]

theres no doubt they can be shot loose but i sure liked them. All it took was to back the loads off to no more then 1200 fps with a 158 grain bullet and they would probably last forever. I was no happy when smith replaced them with the L frames and fought it for years refusing to buy one. Finally got one in trade and ran a bunch or rounds thorugh it and found it to be a hell of a gun. Only problem with both is there 357s and that round just doesnt cut it with me. Nothing but a loud 38 special in my opinion so none of them stay in the safe long. Now the 5 shot 44special L frames are sweethearts!