Author Topic: I have a basic question.  (Read 1033 times)

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Offline jlwilliams

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I have a basic question.
« on: March 10, 2010, 11:42:04 AM »
  I've always been a rifle and pistol guy, never been drawn much to shotgunning.  Last year I played a little with some friends of mine and I may be getting the scattergun bug.  Anyway, not having doodly squat for shotgunning experience, I have a question that I imagine would be pretty basic for those of you who have been shotgunning for years.

  Is a .410 harder to hit flying targets with than with a 20 or a 12?  It would seem that the smaller load coming out of a smaller barrel would make a smaller pattern, there for harder to hit targets.  On the other hand, the lighter recoil may make it an easy snap shot.  Again, I just haven't played with enough different shotguns to know so I'm just guessing.  What's the reality?

 

Offline Graybeard

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Re: I have a basic question.
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 12:27:47 PM »
Oh yeah the .410 is not called "the expert's gun" for no reason.

BUT not so much for the reasons you expressed. The bore diameter really has little bearing on pattern size as that is mostly determine by the degree of choke. BUT that little .410 in the 2-1/2" standard shell contains only a half ounce of shot.

Which so little shot the pattern thins fast as distances increase. A standard 20 gauge load is 7/8 oz and for a 12 the standard load is generally considered to be 1-1/8 oz. You can get 3" .410 shells with 11/16 oz but that long skinny shot column is hard on the shot and it really doesn't pattern that much better than the 2-1/2" shells do.

First you need to decide what you are going to do with the gun. Will it be primarily for game use or for clay targets? If clay targets which clays game will you be shooting most?

If trap then don't go less than a 20 gauge. It really is adequate for 16 yard line clays and even an IC will work if you're a fast shooter otherwise you'll need at least a modified choke.

If sporting clays then it really depends on the course of fire at the range you go to. Some seem to try to make the game difficult thru distance rather than intelligent target presentation. On such ranges you might need a 12 ga. but generally if the range is laid out properly a 20 ga. is fine.

Now if skeet then there is logic to a .410 and it is what I mostly use on skeet. For that game to me the 28 is likely the idea gun but ammo is as expensive as is .410 and harder to locate. It has a 3/4 oz charge and the light recoil plus excellent patterns makes it the perfect skeet gun. Still the .410 is for us old farts who've done it for many years and have tender shoulders and no longer want the recoil.

My skeet scores are about the same regardless of how much shot I'm tossing out there but my shoulder loves the reduced recoil of the .410.

A 20 is an excellent starter gun regardless of what use you'll put it to. Get screw in choke tubes on it and you can tailor it to whatever you'll be doing. Tell us more about what you plan to do with it and perhaps we can help more.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline sk330lc

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Re: I have a basic question.
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 01:28:24 PM »
Bill,
 I have Shot shotguns all My Life for hunting and targets.     Your post explained alot to me also..   I have never shot clay targets at a Range  Just in the old pasture field.   Is there a Site that explains the differance between all the diff games?
 ( Sporting Clays , Trap and Skeet) ?
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: I have a basic question.
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2010, 06:10:00 PM »
Wal I don't rightly know about that. I suppose Shotgun World is as good as any for a shotgun only type site.

Skeet is a game shot on a field that is basically a half circle. Originally it was shot on a full circle field but the land on one side was sold and the new owners didn't like shot falling on their land so it was cut in half and that's how the game became what it is today.

There are two houses high on the left and low on the right. Targets come out about 10' from the high and 3' from the low houses. They cross at a point 21 yards from stations one thru seven. Station eight is just inside the center line so the targets crossing point is just a few yards from it. A round is 25 shots, four at stations one, two, six and seven and two at stations 3, 4, and 5. At station eight you shoot one high and one low and if still straight repeat the low house. If you miss prior to then you repeat that shot.

In theory all shots other than station 8 can be taken at precisely 21 yards thus the wide open skeet choke used.


Trap is shot on a field of five stations. The trap house is placed out front and all shots are out going and rising. The five stations are in a straight line and you shoot from 16 yards to 27 yards behind the trap house. Since targets are all flying away from you and fast a more tightly choked barrel is most of the time used. Most folks shoot from the 16 yard line but in competition you are handicapped yardage based on your ability and can go back to as much as 27 yards from where the target sits before you call PULL. A round is 25 targets fired five from each of the five stations.

Sporting clays is supposed to simulate field shooting. It generally consists of 100 shots on up to ten or twelve stations. There really is no such thing as a standard lay out. It is up to each field owner to set the stations and targets to make the shots challenging. Some do it via distance and some by target presentation. You'll see targets going straight up called springing teal, mulitples of different sizes called a covey rise, incomers and out goers and everthing in between. The only constant is that no two set ups will be the same.

Shots might come in your face or so far out they will stretch your full choke 12 gauge gun. You are allowed to change choke tubes from station to station and many of the better shooters do just that. I am not one of the better shooters at the game but dang sure change chokes to suit the distances the next station present. What's tough is when one is in your face and the next at 50 yards. Over and unders are most common guns used.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: I have a basic question.
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 11:21:18 AM »
  Thanks for all the information.

  For now I have a 12, and I have a friend who has a sporting clay course on his property.  I went last summer and played a little, and it was about as much fun as I've had with a gun in a long time.  Ithink that I want to do more shotgunning.  I'm looking at shotguns in a whole different light now.  The real point of my question is to try to get a grip on what the small bore shotty is all about as it relates to the shotgun sports and games.  The only thing I've used a 410 for was a short range vermin gun.  I sold off that gun a while back and now I'm wondering if I've left an empty spot in my shooting iron selection.


Offline sk330lc

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Re: I have a basic question.
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 11:45:02 AM »
Thank You as well.    After Looking at some pics of ranges on the net. Your Post makes perfect Sense. 
 Thank you for explaining that.
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