.405 hornady brass

[Chaz]

Quick question, if I use .405 hornady brass cut down .080 for a 40-70SS can I use the hornady dies for a .405 to reload this brass?Chaz

[John Traveler]

Without my reference books, an offhand guess is "NO" it would not be a good idea.

The .40-70 case is based on the .45-70 case with a body diameter of .508" inches above the rim.

The .405 Winchester case is much smaller in diameter than .509 and would not be safe to fire in a .40-70 chamber.

HTH
John

[Chaz]

John,

Maybe my question was misleading, but from my understanding the Hornady 405 brass is 2.580" long and the 40-70 SS is 2.5" long. the rest of the dimensions with the exception of the rim are the same. This was posted on the other site. Chaz

[Don in PA]

Chaz

According to Ken Howell ("Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges") you can use 405 brass to make 40-70 SS brass
Head dia. 405 = 0.5430
Head dia. 40-70 S S = 0.5570

Don

[Chaz]

Thanks Don,

Is it possible to use the 405 dies then? Are you doing any shooting at the 1000 yd range? I never got the chance to shoot there yet. Took a drive to the range looks like a nice set up. Have to try and join next year to get some long range practice. Chaz

[Clarence]

John,

The .40-70 SS is not based on the .45-70.  It has the same basic dimensions at the .405.

Chaz,

I agree with Don, et al.  As much as full-length dies size down brass, the .405 dies should size plenty to get proper tension for a .408-.410" bullet.  Since the bullet is slightly smaller, the bullet seating die should also work well.  The expander plug may need to be ordered to the right dimension, but then most of us discard the expanders supplied with dies since they are too small to prevent damage to soft lead bullets.  I'd check it-I'd be looking for .407-.408 diameter for .409-.410" bullets.

Clarence

[John Traveler]

Clarence and Chaz, I stand corrected!

John

[Don in PA]

Chaz
Good luck with the 40-70 SS. I purchased a 100 rounds of 405 just in case ... Come on down and join the club it'll be nice to have another BPCR shooter it's geting lonley being the only one at the club.

Don

[Chaz]

Don,

Well picked up the 40-70 SS today. Very nice rifle. New 1875 C Sharps, and the man said when I talked with him that he would chamber it for the Hornady .405 brass. I cut .080 off of the casings last night, and tried one in the chamber today. the casing went in with no trouble and the base of the casing which is .072 was flush with the end of the breech. The breech block closed with no problem and left no marks on the brass. I have no dies yet so I hav'nt been able to load. I picked up a mold so I will cast some 400 grain bullets this week, the dies will be in monday or tuesday so I'll be able to load and start testing. Pretty pleased with everything so far. Perhaps if the weather is good we could get together and do some shooting down your way. I'd like to get together and get what ever I need to join up down your way. Thanks Chaz

[Gunny]

Chaz,

Don't mean to butt in here but I am curious about something you said. You mentioned that this was a C.Sharps 75 in 40 caliber and that you had purchased a 400 grn bullet mould. C.Sharps and john S. are noted for using a slow twist barrel on all of there 40 caliber's. Now I realize that he does use Badger Barrels but unless you spec a 1 in 16" twist I am sure that what you got was a 1 in 18" twist. This slower twist in a 40 caliber may not stabilize that 400 grn bullet you bought. Trust me here I have a C.Sharps 40 caliber and I had a hell of a time figuring out why this rifle would not shoot. When I finally discovered that what I had was a slow twist 40 ( 1 in 18" ) i was able to go to a lighter and shorter bullet and today this rifle is one of my best, and i have shot many, many master class scores in Silhouette with this rifle and it's lighter bullet.

As I said i don't mean to butt in or be a hard a$& but I thought you might like to know.

Gunny

[Don in PA]

Chaz
E-mail me when you can get to the range and I'll meet you there.

Gunny
I agree with you in fact I think a 1-15 or even a 1-14 would be better in 40 cal. What mold are you using?

Don

[Gunny]

Don,

I bought this C. Sharps at the California Reginal Silhouette shoot last year. It was a very nice exmple of the mdl 74 and I always wanted a 40 anyway. One of the guys I was there with had a bunch of practice ammo loaded up with a very strange looking bullet. This was the Grabee Trans-sonic bullet. It was a funny looking thing and had been named after the designer, Paul Jones is the only guy that ever cut a mould for this bullet, and he made damn few maybe as few as 10 or so. I took som of these and went to the Ram line just to shoot the rifle. It took me 4 sighter shoots to find the center of the Ram and I then proceded to take 14 Rams in a row off just as pretty as you please, I believe i could have taken more but I ran out of bullets.

I had Paul Jones make me two moulds for this rifle. One was his creedmore and it weighed 405 cast from 30-1, the other was Pauls 40 caliber spitzer and it weighed 402 cast from 30-1. With either of these bullets I could not get this rifle to group at all, it shot patterns and not even good patterns. I since have bought a couple of highwalls in 40 caliber and both of these rifles will shoot great groups with both of these bullets. I slugged the barrel on the C. Sharps and found out the twist was 1 in 18. I then went on a search for one of the very few Grabee moulds, it took awhile but I did come up with one. It weighs 373 cast from 30-1 and has three GG. With this smaller and lighter bullet this rifle once again started shooting, and shooting very well indeed. I don't have a problem with the 1 in 18 twist in a 40 caliber, even though I think it is a tad slow they can be made to shoot with the right bullet.

Gunny

[Don in PA]

Gunny

Thanks for the reply.
I'm thinking for trying a shorter bullet in my 40-65 all my molds so far have been off the shelf from Lyman or Redding. All cast a 420 gr. ... 1.3" bullet, I've tried  both a spitzer and flat nose. They all show a oval hole no matter what range or volocity. Accuracy is not bad but nothing to write home about

I want to try a shorter bullet about 1.2" which should weigh about 375 gr. I think this would take the rams if I could hit them. And hopefully tighten the groups.

At the same time I getting a pair of shooting glasses just to see if being able to look through the center of the glasses without all the strain will help.

The quest never ends.

Don

[Gunny]

Don,

I can promise you that a 375 grn bullet will in fact take the rams. I'm not saying that you won't ring one with a magrinal hit, but hell I've done that with a 550 grn creedmoor in a 45-70 under SOME conditions.

While the Grabee trans sonic bullet may not be an option for you, as the moulds are very scarce and not many where made. if you would like to try a few I would be happy to send you 50 to try. If you want to do this give me a holler and I will ship them to you.

Gunny

[Chaz]

Gunny,

Just got back from a Buffalo shoot and saw your post. Interesting you should mention the twist rate, I kinda recall them saying it was a 1in 18 twist but somebody told me badger didn't make them in 40 anymore so I didn't think anything else about it. i guess I'll have to seek out one of the molds, unless you might be willing to part with one so I could have one made. Again thanks for the heads up on the twist it'll sure save me a lot of aggravation knowing that. Chaz

[Chaz]

Don,

Soon as I get some rounds together I'll send you an e-mail, got try and find some lighter bullets and see what happens. Sure am glad Gunny gave me a heads-up on that. Being pretty new at this game I'd gone on for a long time figuring it was me doing something wrong. was down in Hamburg today at the Buffalo shoot pretty good time it was the first one  I was ever at.Chaz

[Don in PA]

Gunny
Thanks for the offer.  I ordered a Redding mold today(#640 370 gr. which should be a shorter bullet) and will give that a try. I'll let you know how it works. I tried the new shooting glasses today(Knoblock's) I think they are going to make a vast improvement in my shooting.  

Chaz
Anytime I,m retired so the only thing that keeps me from the range is rain.
Don