Survival Seeds

[ZakAttack]

I saw an ad on Glen Beck last night for survival seeds.  These are nonhybred seeds that can regenerate.  There may be something to having a few bags to be able to grow "your own" when the enevitable happens.  My gun can protect me and bag a rabbit, but  a person needs some vegies to survive.

[sagegrouse715]

Sounds like a scam.

[SHOOTALL]

You can buy them on line in # 10 sealed cans

[skarke]

No scam, maybe a little overpriced.  Talk to your local independent garden store.

[Dee]

+1 sharke, they may be a little overpriced, and most likely you can pickup non hybrid from a garden center. It really is a good idea. Even in today corn field, most of the corn from a hybrid crop will not regenerate, and that, that does will not be like the last, and so on. I think it takes corn about 5 plantings and a lot of sterile seed before it gets back to what it was.

[bilmac]

Google Seed Savers. They carry all heirloom seeds and you can get anything you want, just not in sealed cans. Just remember that if you want to grow more than one variety of any one species they will have to be spaced far apart, otherwise they will cross. Say for instance you want to grow navy beans and pinto beans. If they are not separated by as far as a bee will fly, you will end up with hybrid seed the next year anyhow. Different varieties of corn could be grown closer together because they are wind pollinated.

[Dee]

When I was a kid, my grandpa would plant a tomato every other plant in a row, and the other plant would be a pepper. He said the cross pollination was why his tomatoes were so good. Didn't know about the beans though.

[Oldshooter]

OK Beck is selling gold, seeds, and whatever, and screaming( and crying) that its all coming to an end and its gonna get bad. Why do i think he is profiting from saying the sky is falling.

It may be, but why dont he advertise dish soap, or Remington or sump'n?

[Couger]

Have you ever listened to Beck?  (really listened to him for more than 5min or even longer than one day!!??)


Or do you just criticize him?  Beck is talking about MUCH OF THE SAME stuff the John Bircher's used to warn the country about, that UNFORTUNATELY is true!  (I've been studying conspiracy "theory" and the patriot movement since the 1st gulf war ended and Bush41 started talking about some "new world order" bullscat ......).

Before listening to Beck I didn't know that American Nazi's "rallied" at Madison Square Garden, or ran summer camps for youth.  That's only one (very recent) example.

As for advertising things or products, too many vendors who are too politically correct have succombed to "public pressure" not to advertise on Beck. 

But Beck has the 3rd most listened to program in the country, and Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox, obviously thinks Beck's message and information needs to get out.   

As for advertising long-term storeable food and [hierloom - not hybrid] seeds, that goes hand in hand with Beck's Mormon beliefs as well as telling people how they can be independent and self sufficient*.

*  Nothing wrong with that in my book!

Today Beck was talking about a book written by another Mormon, W. Cleon Skousen - who was a Canadian by birth, but moved with his family to California so Skousen's dad could find work, when Skousen was a boy during the Depression. 

"The Five Thousand Year Leap" was written when Orrin Hatch was a junior senator,  30-some years ago?  Five Tousand Year Leap is a history about political thought and events that happened that allowed the united "States of America" to become the nation we became in 1789, and how we've been the same country ever since - good or bad, but mostly GOOD.

Do I love America?  Damn right I do!  And unlike the Chicago Thug in the white [People's] house, I also believe in American exceptionalism - even like Mr. Beck.   

[Couger]

When I was a kid, my grandpa would plant a tomato every other plant in a row, and the other plant would be a pepper. He said the cross pollination was why his tomatoes were so good. Didn't know about the beans though.

Hope you were able to glean or "inherit" your granddad's experiences and successes when gardening, Dee.

My biggest challenge is probably learning how to successfully build and enrich good soil!

[Dee]

Cougar we till in cow crap when ever thing is out of the garden and let it lay all winter, about every three years. Leaves same way, and that's about it. Try to use as few chemicals as possible. The fertilizers, herbicides ect, kill the natural bacteria in the soil that help the plants break down the nutrients.

[hillbill]

keep in mind that seeds only store so long before they are no longer viable. i saw a chart somewhere on how long they last. the smaller the seed the quicker they go bad.even the seeds that stored the best it seems if i remember correctly only lasted maybe 4 to 5 yrs with most a lot less.

[skarke]

hillbill,

It depends.  Properly stored and selected seeds for the purpose of survival can last decades.  In fact, certain seeds have been discovered in Egyptian tombs several thousand years old and have germinated just fine.

Survival seeds must be selected in large part for their storage tolerance.

[Oldshooter]

Have you ever listened to Beck?  (really listened to him for more than 5min or even longer than one day!!??)


Or do you just criticize him?  Beck is talking about MUCH OF THE SAME stuff the John Bircher's used to warn the country about, that UNFORTUNATELY is true!  (I've been studying conspiracy "theory" and the patriot movement since the 1st gulf war ended and Bush41 started talking about some "new world order" bullscat ......).

Before listening to Beck I didn't know that American Nazi's "rallied" at Madison Square Garden, or ran summer camps for youth.  That's only one (very recent) example.

As for advertising things or products, too many vendors who are too politically correct have succombed to "public pressure" not to advertise on Beck. 

But Beck has the 3rd most listened to program in the country, and Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox, obviously thinks Beck's message and information needs to get out.   

As for advertising long-term storeable food and [hierloom - not hybrid] seeds, that goes hand in hand with Beck's Mormon beliefs as well as telling people how they can be independent and self sufficient*.

*  Nothing wrong with that in my book!

Today Beck was talking about a book written by another Mormon, W. Cleon Skousen - who was a Canadian by birth, but moved with his family to California so Skousen's dad could find work, when Skousen was a boy during the Depression. 

"The Five Thousand Year Leap" was written when Orrin Hatch was a junior senator,  30-some years ago?  Five Tousand Year Leap is a history about political thought and events that happened that allowed the united "States of America" to become the nation we became in 1789, and how we've been the same country ever since - good or bad, but mostly GOOD.

Do I love America?  Damn right I do!  And unlike the Chicago Thug in the white [People's] house, I also believe in American exceptionalism - even like Mr. Beck.   

Well as a matter of fact I listen everyday and watch sometimes as well. I just think that his message and credability is weakened with some of these adds and some of the theatrics. He needs no defense pardner. He needs to just keep it real as they say now!

[Empty Quiver]

Unless you know how to harvest and store those seeds you are wasting money on less productive garden plants. You will be buying new seeds each year and paying more for the knowledge you could conceivably harvest the seeds.

Many vegetables are not hybrids anyway, they are cultivars. That is to say hand selected seed stock not truly cross bred hybrids. Through years and years of production they have been selected from their neighbors for next years crop. Corn is very easy to cross breed and in my opinion not that great a candidate for a survival garden anyway. The small seeded garden plants would be much more difficult and therefore much less likely to be hybridized. Another thought, if you aren't seeing giant racks of a veggy in your supermarket it probably isn't a hybridized plant, no profit incentive.

[BIG Dog454]

Many garden seeds are NOT hybred.  Blue Lake bush been, many water melon, pumpkin, squash are not hybred.  If you want to save seed, DO NOT, save you seeds in a plastic air tight container, seeds have to breath.

[Dee]

Mr. Beck was a comedian first, and his roots in the field are obvious. Although I Agree with most of what he says, there are times when the comedy isn't funny, but instead silly. The topics are for the most part serious, and he has the ability to present them, but he also has the unchecked urge to make the presentation in such a way as to "show case" his wit, which at times distracts to the point I turn the channel. He has much good information, and has developed quite a following to the show, but I think his credibility will eventually suffer if he doesn't turn the comedy knob down.

[Couger]

Many garden seeds are NOT hybred.  Blue Lake bush been, many water melon, pumpkin, squash are not hybred.  If you want to save seed, DO NOT, save you seeds in a plastic air tight container, seeds have to breath. 

I did not know that!  Thanks for sharing.   

[Couger]

Mr. Beck was a comedian first, and his roots in the field are obvious. Although I Agree with most of what he says, there are times when the comedy isn't funny, but instead silly. The topics are for the most part serious, and he has the ability to present them, but he also has the unchecked urge to make the presentation in such a way as to "show case" his wit, which at times distracts to the point I turn the channel. He has much good information, and has developed quite a following to the show, but I think his credibility will eventually suffer if he doesn't turn the comedy knob down. 

? ? ? ?       It will be interesting to see whether Beck tones down his humour.      

But glad to see that Beck indeed has a following and folks are paying attention to his message.  With a media that seems ENTIRELY leftest and does't report on anything that makes their "agenda" look bad, its hard oftimes to know how the general publik really feels about many things - including what is indeed good for the republic, or downright bad.

[The Hermit]

Dee, I happen to agree. I think Beck has a valid message. He is not often called out for wrong facts. I think he would have a larger audience if he changed the style of his delivery. The same applies to Ted Nuggent, a strong advocate of our rights, but his delivery sometimes comes across as radical to new folks looking for answers.
BTW, try www.heirloomseeds.com for seeds that are non hybrid.
Some good thoughts expressed on this forum, as usuall. Thanks guys.

    The Hermit

[BeanMan]

I'm a producer of dry beans for seed and work for a University breeding program, mostly pinto beans.  Dry beans are self pollinated and as a result of that do not hybridize (maybe .01%).  You can plant navy's and pinto's side by side and the rate of outcrossing (not hybridization) is about 3%.  If you are considering dry beans for survival, and you should be because they are an incredible source of protein and water soluble fiber, don't worry about poor information you hear, there is a lot of it out there.  My recomendation would be to stay away from heirloom cultivars for survival.  Modern lines of dry beans have been cross bred,  by pollen transfere with a small paintbrush by hand, (Not hybridized) for many years to achieve disease resistance.  Dry beans are the sheep of the plant world and are prone to many root and leaf diseases.  You can store them for long periods of time if you choose a cool place that has low humidity and very little temperature fluctuation.  A root cellar would be ideal.  Make sure you plant some seed out and replace it every few years to maintain high germination rates. Wheat, Barley, and oats are also non hybrids.

[skarke]

Thanks Beanman,

So, when preparing for TEOTWAWKI, what should we stock?  Pinto beans with (with a few beano plants ).  What else?

[Empty Quiver]

I suppose that would depend on weather you will be canning, but I would put in hard squash, Acorn or Butternut for example. Turnips, carrots, onions, about every root crop I could put my hands on, think root cellar. The summer eating would need tomatoes, green peppers, greens of all sorts, snap beans, peas. My lord don't forget cabbage, how you gonna fumigate without cabbage.

Something outta that root cellar might be worth big barter along about Feb. or March, if you have plenty put away.

[hillbill]

EQ is correct, a strict diet of deer meat and squirrel does get old trust me.any kind of veggies will be worth their weight in, if not gold maybe ammo? lol

[skarke]

Strictly meat diets (survival mode) will eventually kill you, so says Survivor Man.  Have to have some veggies.

[bilmac]

American Indians relied on corn, beans, and squash. Easy to harvest and all of them grow pretty good where ever I've lived.

[burntmuch]

So if I buy heirloom seeds, then grow the vegatables, then take the seeds from the vegatables . Then dry & store them properly. I can then use them for the next years garden???  Or do I have to buy them every year . Maybe a stupid question, but Ive been called stupid before.  This is my first year with a garden. The wife & kids are loving it. I would like to try saving seeds, but not sure if thats how it works.

[The Hermit]

burntmuch, there is no such thing as a stupid question. Some times we hear stupid answers. Heirloom seeds, which are non hybrid seeds, grow true to varity each season. Thus you can save your non hybrid tomato, pepper, beans, etc seeds for growing the following season.
I have been doing it for 55 years and love it. I have a varity of garlic that my grandfather gave me in the late 50's, which I plant again every fall. He brought it from Italy in the 1800's, a gift from his dad.
bilmac, you are right on about indians keeping corn, beans, and squash. Many years ago on the banks of the Black River, a cache was uncovered by a farmer plowing, and in it was parched corn. Worked for them, works for us.

   The Hermit

[BeanMan]

I'll say it again.  Beans are not hybrids. Self pollinated crops cannot be hybridized for a commercial market.  If you have two varieties of heirloom plants planted close enough together and they are open pollinated, like tomatoes, you will get some crossing, during the F1 generation but will not see it because F1 traits are maternal.  You will see segregation of the resulting crosses in the F2 and F3 generations. 

[bilmac]

Thanks bean man, there is a website that sells all sorts of beans, but I couldn't figgure out whether pintos were hybrids or not. Now it is beginning to click, beans are not hybridized, because it would be too labor intensive to be profitable. I've been experimenting with a lot of different legumes this year, largely because my soil is really poor. But I was growing small widely separated plots.

I bought several different beans, but when I had some space left over I just got some legumes from the grocery store. Some stuff like lentils are doing very well, so much so that I am broadcasting them on bare spots to be green manure.

How necessary is the innoculant the seed companies like to sell. I have never used it before, but I did this year because I am working with almost bare sand, and I am rushing to make it fertile as quick as possible. I am thinking that once I have established it in the soil, I won't have to continue applying it, right?