can I use Hodgdon Pyrodex "RS" ffg to load my 45-70 cases?

[shannonavah]

I have a bunch of this smokeless ffg pyrodex, and wondering if I can use it to reload my cases. This is my first 45-70, and I have never reloaded before. I have a Lee classic hand loader coming. I bought some CCI large primers.I got for bullets are Barnes 458 cal - .458 dia  450 grain flat base cannelured. So as I stated this will be my first time and really could use some helpful hints,tricks,or techniques that I might need to make this safe to shoot. Like how many grains of powder I should use. Thanks GBO members

[necchi]

Well I'll open the gamet,
 Pyrodex "RS" is not a true "smokeless" powder. At least in the sence that it is not a modern "nitro" powder.

It is a Black powder replicant or substitute and therefore it is used by many to load their BP cartridge guns.

I don't have any data for it's use here, nor do I load 45-70. Please wait till you find reliable data or load specific info before you use it. I'm familure with true ML guns and the use of BP in those, but I use a "volume measure" for my charges and I don't know how BP or sub's are measured for cartridge, could be by volume or by weight  .

I'm sure someone that loads 45-70 will be along soon too help. Good luck, and keep it safe.

[MZ5]

The Pyrodex I've loaded (in a muzzle-loader) substituted for black by volume, not weight.  Thus, you could run this in your 45-70 if you had a volumetric way to duplicate the black powder loads.  The name 45-70 contains the black powder charge:  70 grains.  I don't recall off-hand what bullet weight that was under, and again you'd need to match that volume with your Pyrodex.

[Badnews Bob]

Short answer.....Yes you can. The .45-70 was loaded with 70gr by volume of FFG black under a 405gr bullet.

BTW you can't really get 70 gr of black in a .45-70 case without a drop tube. Black powder or BP substitutes need to be compressed when loaded.

[quickdtoo]

Here's a nice article about handloading for the 45-70 with Pyrodex.

Tim

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm

[spinafish]

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/muzzleloading_manual_2008.pdf?CHECKBOX_1=on  here's Hodgdon's info from there site..

[sk330lc]

Contact Barnes and ask them!   Are these all Copper Barnes Bullets?   If so Most Load data is lower than a cup and lead core bullets.  Barnes would be the people to ask.   Just email them.  They are good to get back to you.     

[stimpylu32]

I have a bunch of this smokeless ffg pyrodex, and wondering if I can use it to reload my cases. This is my first 45-70, and I have never reloaded before. I have a Lee classic hand loader coming. I bought some CCI large primers.I got for bullets are Barnes 458 cal - .458 dia  450 grain flat base cannelured. So as I stated this will be my first time and really could use some helpful hints,tricks,or techniques that I might need to make this safe to shoot. Like how many grains of powder I should use. Thanks GBO members

The first thing you HAVE to do is STOP and take a deep breath , you are trying to toss too many things into the mix at one time !

Just because you have some stuff , does not mean you can just toss some powder into a case and shoot , there is much more to hand loading than that , also loading black powder or its subs , like Pyrodex are much diffrent than loading with smokeless .

Go out and buy yourself a good loading manual like the Lyman or the Lee and read through the basics before you even think about loading your first case !

stimpylu32

[Redhawk1]

The best thing to do is read up on loading black powder cartridges. It is a little different than loading smokeless.

I have loaded black powder cartridges for a number of years. Please do yourself a favor and read up on it first.

Go to the Paper Patched bullet discussion, you can get some good information there as well.
Also check out the book called:
The Paper Jacket (Paperback)
~ Paul A Matthews

A video as well to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOyvtS3pOzg

[bronco73401]

Very good point stimpy

[mechanic]

I've shot a lot of the Pyrodex RS in my rifle, without incident, except for the extra work washing cases.  I've gone back to smokeless because it's cheaper and cleaner and I'm lazy.

You will be able to get about 65 grains by volume into the case if you use a drop tube, and are loading 405 grain bullets.  A heavier, longer bullet will reduce your case capacity.

Your powder should be loaded with a drop tube, and slightly compressed as the bullet is seated.

If you leave too much air gap, you could wind up with a large bulge in the chamber, so don't take it too lightly.

The lead bullets will shoot well IMO, and will give reasonable accuracy.  I have shot heavier bullets, but I have never tried jackeded bullets with Pyro.  You'll have to check the sites mentioned in previous posts for information on that.  Somehow in my mind, smoke loads should be loaded with lead bullets...........

[PawPaw]

Couple of things to watch out for.

First, Pyrodex likes to be compressed just a little, about 5-10%.  In muzzle-loaders, they tell us to seat our ball firmly on the powder charge.  The same rule applies in BP cartridges. 

My trick was to take an old case, seat the bullet, then use a hacksaw and cut the case at the bullet base.  Then I soldered a wire handle to the case.  That's my powder measure when I'm using Pyrodex or Triple 7.  Another trick to get the BP cartridges to shoot is to use a grease cookie between the bullet and the powder.  Don't ask me why it's important, but it is an important step for helping many rifles get the best accuracy. 

Junior talks about grease cookies in the article Quick linked, and I talk about it in another article on the same site.  I can't get black powder locally, so I'm forced to use substitutes.  I've found that Triple 7 gives me the accuracy I'm looking for in my Sharps.  For the Handi-rifle, I use smokeless powder.

[Dezynco]

The general rule with Holy Black Powder or black powder substitute is "it does not matter how much powder, just as long as you fill the case".  The cartridge must be full of powder and bullet.  The bigger the bullet, the less powder will fit.  The powder must be slightly compressed under the bullet.  NO EMPTY SPACE!

If you wish to load more powder than will fit, you'll need a compression die that will "ram" the powder into the case.  With black powder and it's substitutes, you cannot get too much powder, but you can get too little, which may cause the chamber to "ring".

[Redhawk1]

  Another trick to get the BP cartridges to shoot is to use a grease cookie between the bullet and the powder.  Don't ask me why it's important, but it is an important step for helping many rifles get the best accuracy. 

Junior talks about grease cookies in the article Quick linked, and I talk about it in another article on the same site.  I can't get black powder locally, so I'm forced to use substitutes.  I've found that Triple 7 gives me the accuracy I'm looking for in my Sharps.  For the Handi-rifle, I use smokeless powder.

The grease cookie is mainly used with paper patch bullets, and not used much if any with grease grooved bullets that are lubed. The reason for the grease cookie is to loosen the fouling.

[stimpylu32]

While this thread does have some good info in it , I'm locking it , there are just too many things in the Original Post that have me concerned and most of the replys just missed them .   

1) The fact that the OP referred to Pyrodex as " Smokeless "

2) The fact that the OP had gotten some " CCI Large Primers " - ( large rifle / large pistol ? )

3) The fact that the OP clearly said " I have never reloaded before "

stimpylu32