Will Israel Attack Europe? Israeil Historian thinks maybe so.

[S.S.]

Have any of you been to Israel?
Will Israel attack Iran? Yes I think so but remember
that France is in love with Iran and has a massive Muslim
population. And has supplied Iran with Radiological material.
So Israel may, in fact, one day have to fight Europe!
This is not as far fetched as it sounds. And in reality
there is a substantial possibility of it.
Israel will never again go quietly and when it
gets right down to it, they are on their own! Every other
country has proven that to them.

[powderman]

Have any of you been to Israel?

Sorry to say it but no, I haven't but would love to. I'd love to see old Jeruselum and everything there was to see. It would really be special to walk where Jesus walked. I know several folks who have gone there many times and they have all said that their lives were changed just by being there. POWDERMAN. 

[lgm270]

Have any of you been to Israel?

Sorry to say it but no, I haven't but would love to. I'd love to see old Jeruselum and everything there was to see. It would really be special to walk where Jesus walked. I know several folks who have gone there many times and they have all said that their lives were changed just by being there. POWDERMAN. 

The Jewish State of Israel has changed many lives....torture is legal there.

[powderman]

Are you talking about occupied Israel , occupied by 5 Godless nations?? I bet they go out  every day looking at the Godless trespassers and say, hmmmmm, think we'll torture this one today, or hey, I bet we could make that kid scream. The Jews live daily with death threats, rocket attacks, suicide bombs, and have to carry gas masks to guard against their Godless neighbors. If Israel laid down her arms today, they would be slaughtered by the Godless ones. If the Godless ones laid down their arms today, there would be peace, but they don't want that, never have, never will. If I lived under the conditions that Israel does I would have no patience asking anybody anything. POWDERMAN. 

[ShadowMover]

Shadowmover. God established Israel thousands of years ago so Israel is not new, just hidden for way too long. The world allowed Israel to be torn apart and her land divided by the Godless nations of this earth. The last straw was the murders of over 6 million Jews during WW11. God decided ENOUGH, and lifted them up, and they will never be conquered again. They have the ability to totally destroy all of her Godless neighbors, but they choose not to, they only want peace. Every single time the Godless ones attack Israel they get their butts in a sling, even though Israel is only 1/500 th the size of her Godless neighbors. In one battle with Egypy, Egypt lost over 20,000 troops, Israel lost 6, yep, SIX. Still there are those who refuse to see Gods hand in protecting his people. Those who bless Israel will be blessed. Shame on those who turn their backs on her, like osama has done.
Will Israel attack iran??? I  believe it will happen, and iran will be backed by russia. Time will tell. POWDERMAN.  

Israel, Judea or however it was called a few thousand years ago was thoroughly and decisively defeated by the Romans. I won't draw any conclusions about God's will from that either.  I understand you feel a religious affiliation with the area and I have no problem with your religion or that of any of the people in the area. My problem is with today and the actions of people who act against the US and it's legitimate interests. When you swear to support the US Constitution , an honest man doesn't cross his fingers fingers and give himself a wink because of religious beliefs. When somebody acts against the interests of our country ( I assume you are an American), they should swiftly feel the full weight of our anger.

You mention the lopsided battle death counts against Egypt, I can guess you are referring to the "Six Day War". Israel was reported to have executed thousands of Egyptian POWs and civilians. This is mentioned by Israeli journalists who witnessed it.  This is also the war where Israel fired on the USS Liberty, a ship flying a US flag in international waters, wounding over 173 and killing 34 crewmen. These facts can be verified with a quick search on wikipedia or any internet search. These are real world incidents, brought about by real people.

I'm not going to argue the merits or truths of any religious beliefs on the internet.  Everybody is entitled to what they believe. My problem is when somebody who has sworn loyalty to the US acts in the interest of a foreign country. I see no difference between the actions of a Jewish Jonathan Pollard spying and a  Muslim Nidal Hassan attacking unarmed soldiers at Fort Hood. They are both traitors who swore allegiance to our country.  In fact Pollards actions may have indirectly killed many more of our soldiers than Hassan.

Do I have a problem with US citizens putting Israel ahead of the US?  Yes I do.  If Israel wants to attack Iran or Europe then I would hope and pray the leaders of the US do what is in the best interest of the US, not what is in the best interests of Israel.  Those interests may overlap in some areas, but they are by no means the same.

[powderman]

shadowmover. Israel was defeated by the romans, Gods punishment for disobedience and idol worship. Yes, of course I'm an American, first and foremost.
The battle I referred to was prior to the 6 day war, in the early 50s I believe. Never read anything about slaughtering civilians.
The USS Liberty was a spy ship, OUR spy ship, everybody knew that. We were spying, Israel didn't know who for because they didn't trust us. They were fighting for their lives, their very existence, they decided to stop the spying, they did. I wish they hadn't, but it happened. In their situation I'd probably of done the same thing. Had they wanted it sunk, it would have been. POWDERMAN. 

[searlock]

isreal gets more us aid money than any other country, always have. if china wanted to wipe out israel then they would fall, if russia wanted to nuke israel then they would fall, but who would stand up for israel, the good old usa whom they own.

[searlock]

i think the reason that understanding christians want the jewish state to flurish in jerusalem is because the temple must be rebuilt before the return of our savior, as in when you see the obamanation of desolition sitting in the holy of holies. however if if the unwashed thought this i think they would tear down israel to stop the return of Jesus, which can only be good for those washed in the blood.

[ms]

 

Well the most recent move by osama really backs that story doesn't it? He walked out on talks with them showing once again the biggest snub he could give them and all the while kissing ass of the muslims that TM7 sticks up for all the time.

 
[/quote]GB you have to think about the snub it's all fake it's what the nwo wants us to think. That's there a riff with Israel.

[ShadowMover]

You dismissed shootall but he made a point, China & Japan are older countries than us; they own more of us than we give Israel ... how does your analogy not work for us, but work for Israel?

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. China and Japan make a lot of goods that we buy. I think we buy too much from them and not produce enough here in this country, but for the sake of this discussion, we do get something for our money in tangible goods. China and Japan also get something. They use the money to buy raw materials, stocks and bonds, political clout, technology, and politicians such as Bill Clinton. Bill OKed the export of top secret space guidance systems to the Chinese, over the objections of the military and others. China used the technology to develop MIRVed nuclear warheads. We now live under an increase atomic threat from China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIRV
Now the Chinese can put satellites in orbit and knock ours out, and threaten the US with MIRVs. Thanks to Bill selling us out. Before Bill came to the rescue they couldn't get anything to stay up in the sky. We also lost some space industry jobs since the Chinese will launch space and communications satellites cheaper than we could. The Chinese, Japanese, and others owning our debt is a bad thing, and we are paying the price with loss of jobs, loss of technology, and increased threats from foreign countries. 

The fact that we are indebted, is bad, but in no way diminishes the fact that we give away billions of borrowed dollars every year to Israel. Yes we have to borrow the money to do it. Israel also gets some favored trading breaks with us in the form of military and defense contracts which used to be done by American workers. So we lose two ways, jobs, and money. It's doubly bad when we try to get a little cooperation from them, and get a public slap in the face for asking, as with the recent settlements incident.

[powderman]

It's doubly bad when we try to get a little cooperation from them, and get a public slap in the face for asking, as with the recent settlements incident.

shadowmover. Why should we, or the rest of the world expect Israel NOT to build more housing on their own land??? Ridiculous. That would be like china telling America that we can't build houses wherever we want. POWDERMAN. 

[jimster]

shadowmover. Why should we, or the rest of the world expect Israel NOT to build more housing on their own land??? Ridiculous. That would be like china telling America that we can't build houses wherever we want. POWDERMAN.  

Ya, that's what I don't get. I never did get where anyone came off telling Israel what to build or not build.
I also don't get why anyone in the United States is offering any country at all any advice...after the entire world watched us pass legislation
using tax payer dollars to bribe each other for votes. Most of the world must be thinking what I'm thinking there, what would WE know?

It's a little late for Israel to make peace with the Palestinians, their leadership has already publically stated they want Israel dead...and the Palestinian leadership has ties to Iran, who also said they want Israel dead.  What would you expect Israel to do under those circumstances?  Why would they listen to us, they are a little spec on the map surrounded by a vast area of people that want them dead.  Last thing they need is our advice.

The West pumped multi millions of dollars into the Palestinians some years back, all they wanted with that money was to make war, not one dollar was spent on families, houses, roads, schools...you simply can't change those people into something besides muderous thugs, the leadership they have picked for themselves pretty much does them in for good.  They would rather fight than have a sewer system...that pretty much sums them up.

The argument to that is...somehow they were made that way...eons ago....ya, OK...whatever. But there is a reason nobody wants the Palestinians, and I mean nobody wants them. you see anyone else in the region saying..."sure, you thugs come on over here and be with us."  
Hell no...they been wanderin around for hundreds of years for a damn good reason.  





  

[jimster]

The Main Problems with the Oslo Process:

Continued Hamas, Islamic Jihad and PFLP terrorist activism within the Autonomy and delay in crackdown on them.
Spates of serious suicide bomb attacks on Israel by the above groups and public concern in Israel over personal security.
Non-extradition by the PA of terrorists to Israel.
Israeli concern over the viability of security provisions, permeability of patrol points and routes.
Major donor countries find no infrastructure to channel their promised funds efficiently for the development of the Autonomy and refuse to honor them in full; others do not fulfil their pledge.
Non-confirmation by documentation of the repeal of anti-Israel clauses in the Palestinian National Covenant.
Security closures of Autonomy areas cause economic breakdown, generate further hostility.
Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin(4 Nov. 1995) and subsequent change of government in Israel, May 1996, lead to: delay in implementation of Hebron redeployment as it stood; incidents of social conflict, with casualties; new government positions on the final settlement negotiations.
Non-implementation of free passage routes between Gaza & Jericho for cases of abuse of privilege and because of closure regulations.

Maybe not all the Palestinains agreed???  Ya think?

[teamnelson]

wreckhog, well sir with that line of thinking we ( U.S.A. ) should do as China and Japan bid us to do since they send aid in the form of loans to us , RIGHT ?
 God please help this country we sure need it !

SM, this is Shootall's statement. wreckhog simply replied, wrong. Reading the thread, the basis of Shootall's statement is that the argument given by many here for Israel's accountability to us is that we send them aid in the form of loans. It seems you're saying that its different with Israel because of the loans, which I've posted elsewhere is $10bn a year with no accounting trail. That's in addition to the $18bn in imports we purchase from them each year, which you state is taking jobs away from the US. So based on how much $ we send Israel's way, you think we should be able to tell them what do do, did I get that right? Between aid and purchasing, we send about $3,800 per Israeli.

Another interesting factoid, Israel also buys $10bn a year from the US, and is our largest market in the Middle East. So we get about $1400 back per Israeli, and we employ Americans, but they still wind up about $2400 per person to the better on that.

How do we look with China & Japan, the two largest economies in the world?
China, we exported $70bn, but bought $300bn, to a deficit of $230bn to their favor. That's like sending a check for $230 to every single Chinese. But China, the government not private investors, has purchased over $890 bn in US Securities. Or $2966 for every American; bottom line on the books, we're up $2630 per American because of Chinese governmental participation in our economy.

Japan, we exported $60bn, but bought $150bn, to a deficit of $90bn to their favor. Again, like sending a check for $750 to every single Japanese. Japan is second in US securities, with a current value of $765 bn. That's $2550 per American because of Japanese governmental participation in our economy.

I left private investing out.

So you might say we bought each Israeli for $2400, but we are in turn owned by Japan and China at over $2500 a head per. You might say, well we GIVE the money to Israel, no strings attached. Japan and China bought publicly traded securities. I would reply that that gives Asia greater legal claim over us than we have over Israel. Talk about jobs and markets lost; I daresay the imbalance is greater with Asia than with Israel.

BTW, Israel is also economically linked to most of Europe, Asia and Africa as well. If we stopped sending $10bn a year, their economy would not come to a screeching halt, and you may wind up paying more for Winchester Ammo. But if China and Japan cash in their securities, we are sunk. Who runs barter town again?

[teamnelson]

TM7, let's assume for a moment that Israel is as you claim. Do you favor US involvement militarily, diplomatically, economically? What is our motivation to intervene? What should be the end state of our involvement? Not asking for you to restate the way things are; just asking for a way forward.

You may have misunderstood my skepticism in Petraeus before. I do see Israel's contribution to the imbalance in our military operations in the Muslim world, but my concern has always been that our strategy ought not to have ever relied on Israel as even an environmental factor. The fact that it is does draw serious concerns over the strategy itself, and that falls squarely on Petraeus' head. The CJCS has lost credibility over several issues, so while he and Petraeus may bring important information to the table, you'll forgive me if I'm not slapping them on the back just yet.

[Oldshooter]

Forgive me, I haven't read every post here but I have a thought about the whole Israeli housing deal. This administration  started the bru ha ha about the housing in Jerusalem by making an issue out of it. That was not on the table until obama the spoiler made it one. the west bank yea, but not Jerusalem,

[powderman]

JIMSTER, TN. There ya go making sense again, that won't fly with at least several here. Ya shouldn't be confusing these folks with facts, truths,  or logic, they can't stand it. POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

jimster raised a good point to remember as well ... the so-called outrage of the Arab world over Israeli expansion into Palestinian territory is a facade. In Arabic, Palestinian is pronounced philistinian, like Goliath in the Bible. They are commony referred to as philis-teezi, which means nickel butt. It is a derogatory term, in reference to their value, and would be considered racist here in America. But they, like the slaves of the South did for the North, serve as a rallying cry for the Muslim world ... eventhough no one wants them moving into their own neighborhood, marrying their daughters and stealing jobs. The Arab world does not value the Palestinian people, nor do they really value Israeli Arabs, which are a significant population as well. They just hate the Jews. So everytime you hear Palestine, think emancipation proclamation.

[powderman]

Aide to the so called palestinians is wasted, like throwing good money in a cesspool.  Decent, moral leaders would help their people with food, clothing, heating oil, housing, schools, hospitols, etc. Instead,  hamas buys guns, ammo, bombs, rockets, etc. They hate Israel more than they love their own children. They teach hatred and death from birth. Israel needs to  clean house of those Godless scum, destroy the mosques in Jeruselum and everything else to do with satans cult, islam. Israel gives the Godless ones millions of $ in aide every year, yet, the scum continue to bite the hand that feeds them. POWDERMAN. 

[bearmgc]

shadowmover. Why should we, or the rest of the world expect Israel NOT to build more housing on their own land??? Ridiculous. That would be like china telling America that we can't build houses wherever we want. POWDERMAN.  

Ya, that's what I don't get. I never did get where anyone came off telling Israel what to build or not build.
I also don't get why anyone in the United States is offering any country at all any advice...after the entire world watched us pass legislation
using tax payer dollars to bribe each other for votes. Most of the world must be thinking what I'm thinking there, what would WE know?

It's a little late for Israel to make peace with the Palestinians, their leadership has already publically stated they want Israel dead...and the Palestinian leadership has ties to Iran, who also said they want Israel dead.  What would you expect Israel to do under those circumstances?  Why would they listen to us, they are a little spec on the map surrounded by a vast area of people that want them dead.  Last thing they need is our advice.

The West pumped multi millions of dollars into the Palestinians some years back, all they wanted with that money was to make war, not one dollar was spent on families, houses, roads, schools...you simply can't change those people into something besides muderous thugs, the leadership they have picked for themselves pretty much does them in for good.  They would rather fight than have a sewer system...that pretty much sums them up.

The argument to that is...somehow they were made that way...eons ago....ya, OK...whatever. But there is a reason nobody wants the Palestinians, and I mean nobody wants them. you see anyone else in the region saying..."sure, you thugs come on over here and be with us."  
Hell no...they been wanderin around for hundreds of years for a damn good reason.  





  

Good points, Very good points.

[billy_56081]

Well we need to look at it from the whacked out point of view. The zioilluminbildernwo has just been telling yall a bunch of lies all these years. The pali's are nice completley innocent bunch of folks and those evil jews are just attacking them for no reason. Heck watch the pali cartoons those darned evil jews even eat pali kids. Could Israel attack Europe well yah, anything can happen just generally it don't.

I like how our Jew hating members use some of the extreem cases to further their hatred of the Jews. Ya know I have heard a lot of racist groups use an example of a black person commiting this or that crime to condemn the whole race. I see our resident Jew haters doing the EXACT same thing here.

[P.A. Myers]

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship,
 support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."   JFK-1961

"The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired property — against aggression.   We affirm the right to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition."
         Libertarian plaform

[powderman]

BILLY. YEP. Hard to believe that osama and the liberal media would flat out lie about the Godless ones and Israel, but they do. Read where the Godless ones murdered more innocents in Russia. At least they are using women and cleansing the gene pool a bit. By killing their breeders they are at least stopping that blood line. I hope the ruskies don't profile or violate any of the Godless ones rights, clearly they just don't understand them. Gotta be gentle with em, don't want to offend anyone ya know. POWDERMAN. 

[bearmgc]

Seems like more and more extremists of the Muslim persuation are being recruited to commit unspeakable acts against people, who have no dog in the "fight", regular people going about their lives, not other extremists vowing an attack against muslims. Now if there's a war, combatants fight combatants, not target civilians. But times have changed somewhat, in that the extremists can go around blowing things up, with the excuse they are making a symbolic statement. Its hard to see anybody make a reasonable comparison with Israel.

[powderman]

The Godless ones are recruiting right here in  America. They prey on uneducated lonely people. Tell em they love em and convince them that islam is all about peace and love. Then comes the hatred and death part. In mosques all over the world hatred and death is preached and taught. Any iman caught preaching hatred, death, and murder in America should be beaten with a ham bone, force fed sausage and bacon for a week. Then repeat the process, then deport him. If found in America again he should be shot on sight. The offending mosque should be destroyed forever. In Russia at least they are using women and cleansing their gene pool in the process.
Israel will one day say ENOUGH. The Godless ones will be removed  from occupied Israel and Jeruselum. Then they will rebuild Gods temple. Satans days are numbered, but he will take as many souls with him as he can. POWDERMAN. 

[bearmgc]

Guessing by your analysis we should give equal amounts of aid to both "Cain" and "Abel." Since that inequitiy was your final point, it seems that's the point you intend to drive home, in spite of all the other blathering .

[Oldshooter]

blathering

Naw, Heir 7 would never blather! "what you talkin bout willis"   

[teamnelson]

TM7, if you reread my post re: Palestine, you missed that I personally was not mocking them. I was pointing out that the Arab world mocks them; they are the butt of jokes throughout the Arab world. But they know that very few Americans pay attention to their culture, so when it suits them, they appear to value the Palestinian as a dear brother, meanwhile cracking jokes behind their backs. Even within the Arab world, those Muslim nations with whom we have normalcy have pointed out that the issue of Palestine has been artificially inflated by other Muslim nations as a means to bait Israel and the US. And it worked - Mullen & Petraeus took the bait. Evidently, they pay as little attention to the details as you did to my post.

What would I do with Israel? Stop aid, but continue and expand trade to our largest market in the ME. I do not think the US has any more business running their country, i.e. restoring those you say were outed under Bush, than they do running ours. And our national security strategy should not require the cooperation of Israel for success. If we're actually hunting down criminals in the GWOT, then Israel does not matter. If we're in the middle of a war between Judaism and Islam, then lets call it that, and proceed accordingly.

As to a Christian mandate, I do not require there be any religious motivation on the part of a government to do anything. If the government as a reflection of the faith of its people engages in anything, so be it. But for anyone to claim a Christian mandate to do anything politically or militarily is truly not what Christ was about. And perpetuates the precedent for others who would not wield that appropriately. His kingdom is not of this world. And to be clear, Israel does not NEED us to do God's work for Him.

[jimster]

I don't see why we have to dive into religion, or get into any history or anything at all really.  

If Israel lets the Palestinians closer they will do what they always do when they get close...kill people.  Especially when their leadership requires it and nobody will do anything about it on Israel's behalf...like last time.  

Does not get much simpler than that, and there is no sense in making it too complicated.  Nobody wants to get to close to the Palestinians.  
Hell, if they were right next to us they would be killing us too.

What is so hard about this?  And why does everyone think Israel has to let them get close to them.  I'd be stretching them borders out as far as I could for security reasons.  Let Iran take them instead of using them for a tool against Israel...why doesn't somebody tell Iran to take them in???  The rest of the Arab world won't touch em...they probably think it's funny the rest of the world is telling Israel to let them real close.  They don't care much for Israel either.

Next thing ya know people here will feel sorry for them and fly them all here and they would be killing us too. I bet someone would still want to negotiate even then.  Some don't ever catch on.  

There comes a time when you just have to break things down into simple terms, and tell it like it is.  If Palestinians get to close to anyone, they will either ruin the land, or kill you, or both, and you won't be able to make them happy unless you are dead.  Is that simple enough?  OK, who wants them?

Anyone here want them close??  Anyone...?  Not really.  Easy for some people to say Israel needs to be close to them.  No sweat off their backs.
 

[powderman]

JIMSTER. Osama already spent 23 million to bring a bunch of them here. You can bet they aren't in dc. Like rats, muslims have infested every State in America. Both Jordan and Syria have offered the palis land, a place of their own, they turned them down. If they move they can't murder Jews, thats the only reason they exist. If Indiana was firing rockets accross the river at me, you can bet I'd cross that river and stop it. Thats what the Godless ones do, then whine when Israel fights back.  POWDERMAN.