Author Topic: .22 Hornet Load Problem (Read 1969 times)

mdc1 · « **on:** March 14, 2010, 05:06:34 AM »

I'm having a problem reloading for my .22 Hornet that I hope somebody can help me with. I'm loading 13.0 grs of Lil' Gun, 40 gr. Sierra Blitzking bullets and BR-4 primers. The powder charges are all individually weighed. The load is inherently very accurate, easily 1 m.o.a. or better out of my contender. The problem is that every once in a while, I get a bullet that will hit about 6" high at 100yds. The case indicates high pressure as the primers on those cases will be noticeably flattened. I measure every case and they're all at the length I determined for that gun. Backing the bullets down an additional .020" didn't help (I was concerned the bullet was into the lands).

13 grains of Lil' Gun pretty much fills the case. My theory is that the primer ignition is pushing the bullet out into the lands before the powder ignites on those rounds. I hate to switch as it is an accurate load and I've seen other people using similar loads that don't appear to have this problem. The last box of 50 I shot had 6 that exhibited this phenomenon. Any ideas?

OLDHandgunner · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2010, 05:40:09 AM »

Try backing off just a little on your powder charge and see what it does. I'm only shooting 13.0grs of Lil-Gun in my K-Hornet with 35gr V-Max and it's a tackdriver, no flyer's.
Another thing, is your brass all the same make? Just a though.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2010, 06:01:06 AM »

Bullet into the lands is exactly what I thought of too.
The neck brass on the hornet is mighty thin and doesn't have much retention. Maybe a check of the expander button and another sand to reduce the diameter a bit to gain some retention.... Crimping a bit could help but with such a thin neck I doubt it.

CW

RAdkins · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2010, 06:14:40 AM »

As previously mentioned try backing off on the powder a little and switch to small pistol primers. Hornet brass quality varies quite a bit even with the same manufacture. Weigh the cases that cause the problem and compare weight to ones that have fired normally.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2010, 06:22:40 AM »

Quote from: RAdkins on March 14, 2010, 06:14:40 AM

As previously mentioned try backing off on the powder a little and switch to small pistol primers. Hornet brass quality varies quite a bit even with the same manufacture. Weigh the cases that cause the problem and compare weight to ones that have fired normally.

I agree , in a case as small as the Hornet , just a grain or two in case weight difference can mean a big difference in the internal case capacity .

stimpy

mdc1 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2010, 06:56:30 AM »

Thank you for the responses. I checked 4 good and two bad cases and found the following:

Good: weights - 48.1, 48.1, 48.7, 48.0; Lengths - 1.399, 1.398, 1.398, 1.399

Bad - weights - 48.0, 48.0; lengths - 1.400, 1.398.

I usually trim every other loading and always keep lots of purchased brass together. One other piece of information is the throat on my contender is pretty deep so these are loaded long. I only have .120 bearing in the neck. I don't have any small pistol primers so I'll try backing off on the load first. Maybe to 12 (from 13)?

mdc1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2010, 07:05:37 AM »

I just checked my stock of brass and it is all the same, Remington.

Catfish · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2010, 08:39:17 AM »

In the Hodgen manual they use Win. SR primers for testing. I believe that the BR4`s are hottet than the Win`s so they could be causing your problem. Pick up some of the Win. SR primers and give them a try.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2010, 09:06:39 AM »

It's trivial amount compared to your .120, but I always use .125 as a MINIMUM for bullet seating depth... Because bullets can and do move in the cases and a minimum seating depth helps better control that.

CW

mdc1 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2010, 10:54:17 AM »

I've been using this load for a while and had forgotten how little bearing I have in the case neck. I wonder if I just added another .030" seating depth if it would cure the problem? That would be easy to do, just take 20 or so of the rounds I have already loaded and reseat the bullets. Hopefully, the additional jump to the lands wouldn't affect accuracy too much.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2010, 11:28:56 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on March 14, 2010, 09:06:39 AM

It's trivial amount compared to your .120, but I always use .125 as a MINIMUM for bullet seating depth... Because bullets can and do move in the cases and a minimum seating depth helps better control that.

CW

I mistakenly wrote .125 thats an 1/8". What I should have said was .250 or a 1/4" seating depth...

mdc1 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2010, 12:53:23 PM »

I remember reading someplace that a minimum is the diameter of the bullet, or .224 in this case. I was more worried about getting close to the lands to minimize bullet jump. It certainly could be the problem.

bkraft · « **Reply #12 on:** March 15, 2010, 06:46:27 PM »

Try small pistol primers, the old timers used to think that the rifle primers would "jump the the bullet."

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2010, 07:48:26 AM »

I am obviously in the minority here, but I experienced the same thing you have with Lil'Gun in the 22 Hornet, only worse. I had blown primers, stretched cases, sticky cases, velocity swings of 300+ fps, using starting loads with 40 V-Max. But not all would do that, some shot fine. I was afraid to increase powder charge for fear of really doing some damage. Maybe I should have just stuffed it full and forgot it, but I really try to work a charge up, for fear of doing damage to my gun or myself. I tried different primers too, with no improvement. I never did figure out what was causing it, so I just gave up on Lil'Gun. It did this in my Handi 22 Hornet and my Savage Model 40. I know that lots others here have not experienced this and I do not know why I did. I switched to W296 using very light bullets and SP primers and the wild pressure swings went away. I still do not know why Lil'Gun did that.

Here is a group shot with W296 in my 22K Hornet Handi - just a little over 1/2"

Here is a group shot with Lil"Gun in the same gun (22K) just about 3/4"

After my experience with the 22 Hornet, I was a little leery to use Lil'Gun in this gun, so I quit load development with it and stuck to the W296.

bkraft · « **Reply #14 on:** March 19, 2010, 09:22:23 AM »

+1 LaOtto222 my karma with Lil Gun was horrible, O case life, blown primers, difficult extraction. All with 12.5 grains. Some one on here recomended IMR 4227 and life has been good. I've also had good luck with 2400, which at one time I beleive was the "gold standard" for the hornet.

LHitchcox · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2010, 10:01:46 AM »

Consider trying a small pistol primer. The Hornet case holds very little powder. The theory is that the small rifle primer explodes so violently that it can jar the bullet out of the case before ignition fully occurs. I have started using small pistol primers and a Lee factory crimp die. Results are very promising.

CHINK · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2010, 11:34:38 AM »

i do not thank lil gun will cause pressure problems in the hornet,Hodgdon lists 13.0 grs. of Lil' Gun with a 45 gr. bullet as giving 2,787 fps with a low 31,600 CUP,that is a low cup.
the primer will cause the bullet to jump before the powder gets a complete burn, a light crimp will make a huge difference with lil gun in a hornet.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2010, 11:48:17 AM »

I have shot hundreds and hundreds of 34 and 35 grain bullets over 13 grains of lil gun. I have never had a pressure issue. Try a Lee Factory crimp die.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2010, 02:23:27 AM »

lil gun is a powder that does stange things at higher pressures. I much prefer 1680 in the hornet myself. I also have had hands down the best luck in primers with cci small rifle bench rest primers. It a case that small a little variation in primer spark can make a big differnce in accuacy. I use mostly horandy vmax 35s and my ruger will shoot well under an inch with that load.

CHINK · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2010, 10:23:02 AM »

A'man on the small pistol primers,i like cci my self.

McLernon · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2010, 07:14:09 AM »

Don't overlook the rifle...............................if it is a Handi you can expect an occasional extreme flyer.

Mc

mdc1 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 06, 2010, 12:14:17 AM »

Gentlemen,

First of all, thank you for all of the help. I've had to travel out of the country so haven't had the time to try any of the suggestions until last weekend. The first thing I tried was seating the bullets deeper on my existing load, doubling the bearing on the bullet to approximately .250". The first group of 5 shot under 1" with no flyers. I shot another 20 rounds with no sign of the pressure or flyer problems I previously encountered. Accuracy appeared to be equal to what I had previously. I intend to try some of the other suggestions this summer but, for now, seating the bullet deeper appears to have solved my problem.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #22 on:** May 06, 2010, 03:29:13 AM »

Glad it worked out for you!

CW

super mario · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2010, 11:10:30 AM »

I have had no problems with lil gun either, win cases are full at 13.2 gr but my rems hold more.
I have shot 14.2 gr of lil gun with 40, 45 and 50 gr bullets with no problems. I use small pistol primers as well.
My nef just wont do better than an 1 1/2" no matter what i try, sure I get some 3 shot groups that are awsome at times but on average this gun is a 1 to 2" grouper.