Author Topic: Took the .308 Survivor out for the first time (Read 1167 times)

Glockfan · « **on:** March 20, 2010, 06:49:10 PM »

well... it is clear my rifle is NOT one that shoots MOA out of the box
I used a laser bore sight to get my scope "relatively" close.... went out to 50 yards... fired twice... didn't hit the target. (fairly big target lol) $:-\$ (and I am shooting off a bench and rest with the rest as described in FAQ)
So I moved in to about 35 yards and fired..shooting low and left, but wanted to see grouping so didnt adjust. Second shot further low and right(about 6 inches away from 1st shot, third shot... in between the two... bout a six inch spread at 35 yds.... Cleaned gun and picked up my brother's M1 he brought out to check to see if I really am that bad at shooting lol.... nice tight grouping. So I pick up the .308 fire a few more, adjust scope, clean, and wait... rinse/repeat....Still ugly inconsistent strings...had my brother shoot it too (just to make sure it wasn't me)... no better (and he is a very good shot) ...rinse/repeat.... groups getting slightly tighter, but still.. bad $:-\$ . Took the forend off and fired some groups improved a little. Seems the more rounds I put through it the tighter the groups got.

gonna float the barrel tomorrow and take it back out... Also gonna change the forend screw and get a torque wrench so I can keep it where I find it shoots well.
hopefully with more success.

the last shot I took yesterday was a dead on bullseye(the one before it was 3" to the left, didn't adjust scope between shots)... I ended on a good note so that I would feel better lol.

I didn't want to shoot that close, because I know the round is still climbing and when I go back to 100yds I'll be about 8in high... but I didn't wanna shoot any further back with how bad the consistency was. NO CLUE where the first two rounds ended up.....which I don't like....

On a positive note... the gun felt great... fun and comfortable to shoot... locks up tight... plus I get an excuse to mess with it and work on it tomorrow. "WHEN" I get it shooting the way I want I'll post a range report and anything I had to do to fix it.

Thanks to the wealth of knowledge you have all put on here I am still optimistic and know where to start!

-dcary7

Oldshooter · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2010, 07:05:12 PM »

Had a similar experience with a 270, It gets better.

mechanic · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2010, 07:19:27 PM »

That sounds a bit out of character even for a handi. Better double check the scope mounts. The base from the factory will often "shoot loose". Better loc tite it.

You will figure it out and having it shoot well soon. My son in laws took about 100 or so rounds then got better and better.

Ben

MSP Ret · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2010, 07:25:25 PM »

am I reading you right that you cleaned the gun after every few shots? Try shooting it without cleaning it for a while. Many, if not most H&R's, prefer a dirty barrel. Only clean it when the accuracy degrades, then expect to have a few wild shots from the clean barrel before it settles in again....<><....

Glockfan · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2010, 07:33:02 PM »

Quote from: MSP Ret on March 20, 2010, 07:25:25 PM

am I reading you right that you cleaned the gun after every few shots? Try shooting it without cleaning it for a while. Many, if not most H&R's, prefer a dirty barrel. Only clean it when the accuracy degrades, then expect to have a few wild shots from the clean barrel before it settles in again....<><....

Correct, most of the FAQ's about breaking in the barrel recommended some variation of this... i'll give it a shot tomorrow.. wont clean it during the shooting.. haha can't be worse than it was today. lol
If I do not have better success tomorrow Ill take the scope off and mount it again. I took my time and at least thought I put it on uniformly and very tight.. but it wouldn't be the first time I made a mistake so i'll check it again.

Thanks for the advice.

mrbgt · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2010, 04:27:19 AM »

I second checking your scope base and rings , I ended up bedding the rail on the .308 barrel I had , I still had a hard time keeping the scope from sliding in the rings . When you get it figured out I bet it'll be a shooter , most .308's are !

dave29 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2010, 04:59:34 AM »

I look forward to your next range report. I have been thinking about picking one of these up for several weeks.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2010, 05:51:20 AM »

Is that scope a proven reliable performer, or something new? I always put a proven scope on a new gun to work it out, then change later. I dont need more variables messing me up than neccessary.

poncaguy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2010, 07:03:47 AM »

I would try a different scope too if it doesn't improve, my 308 Survivor shoots around an inch............was using Choate stock and forend though.......

spikehorn · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2010, 09:12:07 AM »

Try the JB Bore paste and then as said shoot it dirty until accuracy drops off. My 308 ultra varmint shot 1.5" out of the box after doing the JB Bore paste thing in the FAQs, and is tightening up more as I shoot it. Also are you letting the barrel cool after each shot?

Glockfan · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2010, 10:35:20 AM »

Yeah the scope is good, I used it this last year during deer season. So I am sure there is nothing wrong with it. I wasn't rushing the three shots. I'd shoot one... walk down mark it, come back load another shoot it, etc for three shots.. then I'd give it time to completely cool. So... it may not have been 100% cool between shots, but I would say there was a significant enough amount of time that i shouldn't have had fliers like i did.. and even still the first shots of each three shot string wasn't consistent. I'll get some bore paste and try it. I just floated the barrel (put an o-ring in). There was a lot of contact with the forearm and barrel before. Ill post up if I have some success.. if not.. ill be in the garage changing the scope and messing with the gun. thanks for the advice. gonna take it out here in a minute and put some more rounds down it and see how it does. Are you all waiting till the barrel is 100% cool in between shots?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2010, 11:45:36 AM »

Check out the Handi Basics 101 sticky, make sure you have all those bases covered first, one of em is shooting the rifle without the forend, if it shoots good without it, the problem is forend fit, I wouldn't be too concerned with the 308 bull barrel as far as heat, it may vertical string a little with an untouched forend, but once you get the forend fitted properly(see forend fit in the FAQs) and float it, you should see an improvement in that respect. If the forend is too tight which is common, it will definitely cause problems.

Tim

spikehorn · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2010, 12:22:19 PM »

I usually count to 60 one thousand between shots with the barrel broke open and nothing in the chamber, probably not 100% cool. just the habit I've gotten into.

Lefty Dude · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2010, 12:41:39 PM »

It won't settle in till ya get at least 100 rounds down range.
Then do the JB bore paste thing,and see what ya got.

Do one procedure at a time.

If ya can't get it to shoot, you can give it to me.

BTW; The type of ammunition is important, my handi/308 hates all Remington factory stuff.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2010, 12:51:43 PM »

I am with those that say don't clean it and run 50 - 100 rounds thru it and while doing that you should be observing the groups getting better and better. Many Handi's don't like to be cleaned very often. Good luck. A 223 will be in my life in the not too distant future, so I will be doing the same routine.

Glockfan · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:06:06 PM »

I checked the Handi Basics 101... I followed all of them perfectly today. (yesterday i shot some with the forend off, and it wasn't "AS BAD" but still not very consistent). I went and got the o-ring installed and checked the dollar slides through without resistance down to forearm lug... I was waiting at least 45 seconds in between shots. I had the rest placed right up to the trigger guard. I even shot in the prone position to alleviate any extra movement. I had one group that I was very pleased with... all three rounds touched... other than that... well you can see for yourself.. The middle was my first group.. then bottom right to bottom left, to top left to top right.. then ended with the last bullet back at center target. (which oddly enough was just left of the center bullseye... go figure lol). I did not clean the gun in between any strings. The middle target and bottom two were at 35 yards and the top two and last bullet in middle were at 50yds.

To give you an idea of how bad the other day was... these groups are ALOT better $:-\$

Ill try the bore paste... and gonna get a torque wrench to replace forearm bolt.... other than that... I have done everything the FAQ's have said. maybe it just needs more rounds through it... idk.. its had 76 rounds through it over the last few days.

I REALLY don't think its my scope base and rings.. i checked em again before I shot.. they're solid.. no play.. and the bore sight says its right on target, and I double checked the scope rail to make sure it was good and tight before I mounted it.

Any other advice is welcome. Unless it just takes more rounds to break it in, which is a possibility... I really don't know.. i've inspected it as best as I can.. no burs or obstructions.. barrel was dry.. locks up tight.

Idk... like i said... today was a BIG improvement so I am not upset in the fact that at least it is getting better... still not where it needs to be though.

-dcary7

btw the hole in the top right isn't a bullet. just where it was mounted.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:30:06 PM »

Quote

BTW; The type of ammunition is important, my handi/308 hates all Remington factory stuff.

I was gonna say, try some different loads and bullet weights.

Glockfan · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:38:28 PM »

Well I don't reload. But the last two days I shot 150gr Rem corelokt, today was 145gr silver bear... which I must say was some DIRTY ammo..lol but the groups were better than the Remington and it was half price.

If anyone has a bbl .308 what factory ammo does yours prefer? I saw in FAQ a person's ruger .308 likes 168gr win.. so ill try it.. but there was no handi .308 ammo listed. Any .308 handi factory ammo preferences would be appreciated so I had a few recommended choices to start with.

Thanks,

dcary7

Mac11700 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:42:15 PM »

Quote from: dcary7 on March 21, 2010, 01:38:28 PM

Well I don't reload. But the last two days I shot 150gr Rem corelokt, today was 145gr silver bear... which I must say was some DIRTY ammo..lol but the groups were better than the Remington and it was half price.

If anyone has a bbl .308 what factory ammo does yours prefer? I saw in FAQ a person's ruger .308 likes 168gr win.. so ill try it.. but there was no handi .308 ammo listed. Any .308 handi factory ammo preferences would be appreciated so I had a few recommended choices to start with.

Thanks,

dcary7

Winchester Power points 150 grains..Shot the best all around out of the one I had..for hunting..The Federal Match ammo did real well too..

Mac

Oldshooter · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:46:11 PM »

I dont have a NEF 308, mine is a Rem R 25 AR. It likes 180 gr Federal sp, but so far thats all I have fed it.

There is a sponser here that sells reloaded ammo http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=links;sa=visit;id=34

Glockfan · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:59:03 PM »

Ok, thanks I will try a few of these and see what I get.
-dcary7

gcrank1 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2010, 02:23:18 PM »

Do you have another proven scope to try? They tend to be like a light switch, good or bad, and once they go its game over.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2010, 02:41:17 PM »

The scope rail being tight when you checked it from the get go doesn't mean it's still tight if Loctite wasn't on the screws, follow the scope rail bedding info in the FAQs and be sure to use either thread locker or nail polish, loose scope rails account for a lot of frustration, and scopes can go bad anytime, you need to eliminate all the variable before wasting any more ammo and range time.

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2010, 02:42:37 PM »

I tried over 30 different bullets and Lord knows how many different powders and FAQ tricks to get it to shoot better..in mine and never once found any hand loads to work as good as these 2.. Mine had such a huge bullet jump I could barely reach the lands with 180 grain Accubonds loaded all the way out in the cae..Measure yours..and see..If real long you might want to try at the rated SAMMI length just to see how it does..Opps..

I see you don't handload..sorry..
Mac

Glockfan · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2010, 03:05:40 PM »

ok, I'll loctite the scope rail tonight and give it another shot tomorrow

As far as the scope itself, I just purchased it this last fall for deer season.. worked great.. and its been in a case since. I can throw it on one of my other guns though and check it out, but I am sure it is mechanically sound.

Thanks for the input,

dcary7

**scope rail is now bedded, tomorrow afternoon I will give it another go**

gcrank1 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2010, 04:52:41 AM »

Just a thought, if you havent done this.......when screwing in the scope rail screws check them for 'bottoming out' one at a time in the holes they will go in, while in the rail. Make sure each one will pull the rail down to tight on the barrel before you locktight, torque them up and assume all is even and good.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #26 on:** March 22, 2010, 06:04:49 AM »

The bedding info in the FAQs covers that.

Tim

Glockfan · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2010, 07:11:56 AM »

Yep I did, they don't bottom out. Thank you for the suggestion though.

dcary7

shvlhead.45 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2010, 08:45:59 PM »

My standard taper .308 does not like the Remington ammo period.
It don't seem to like light bullets either, never tried the russian made ammo.
I used the blue box Federal 150 grain for breakin and intial zero. Groups didn't tighten up till I went to 165-168 grain bullets.
My hunting load is the Federal Fusion or any of the Federal Premuim 165 grain rounds.
I've had good luck with Sierra Game Kings in my .25-06 and the .308.

I don't reload for the .308 yet so can't give you any help there.

Glockfan · « **Reply #29 on:** March 23, 2010, 04:13:14 PM »

alrighty, put another 20 rounds down the barrel at 50 yards... grouping was better. I would typically get the first two touching and the third flying... but it is improving.. oddly enough it started bad.. and the more I shot it improved noticeably.. even in just 20 rounds it was noticeable.. I do see why people like reloading... factory ammo is not consistent in their loads... so.. I may try and start reloading here after awhile.... grouping was good enough I am gonna take it out a few hundred yards tomorrow and test the waters. (ill start close and work my way back)

Side question.... I have been looking into bipods... What I am wondering is what would the pros and cons be to mounting a bipod on the forearm lug screw? Since that is the only place the forearm touches the barrel (I could be completely wrong on this) would that not be the most ideal place to mount one? granted it would alter the pressure applied to that spot, but the pressure would still be consistent each time.. so all one would have to do is change where their set screw is at (if you have one in place) and fire till you find it's sweet spot. It would probably be a lot of trial and error..but... thoughts on this? cus most bipods mount on the sling screw... but that would put pressure on the front of the forearm which ... i dont want.I just figured if I could make it work on the forearm screw it would probably work better in the long run.

Anyway, pros, cons, advice.. all welcome. Recommendations on the bipod brand? Thank you for the input thusfar... It has been very helpful. Because my groups, although still not great by any means.. are steadily improving.. I am going to assume ammunition selection and that the barrel is still getting broken in for my inconsistency so far. I'll keep shooting as it improves and go from there. And if I do decently well at the longer distances tomorrow...I am gonna keep moving back on distance.. ill post a range report if I do good at all.

Thanks,
dcary7