Author Topic: No difference between parties ?  (Read 2877 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline teamnelson

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2010, 11:30:29 AM »
Its interesting to me to see gents who in every other aspect of their life claim to stand on convictions, yet give in to pragmatism in that first moment of doubt. You cannot claim to have convictions, and vote party. You cannot claim to be driven by what is right, and vote only for the win. If your convictions align with the party, great! If the electable candidate stands for what is right, great. Thats what my father taught me, and when I turned 18 I registered to vote and have excercised my right ever since. That it happens that everyone I've voted for so far have been Republicans is secondary to that conviction.

Our nation wasn't founded by winners, it was founded by idealists who fought hard for what was right. Their families suffered under oppressive government before they even came here, and spilled their blood ... not to win, but for what is right. If our nation will ever be great again, it will not be on the shoulders of pragmatists. The pragmatists voted against HC, good for them - not a single Republican risked their seat in that vote. Idealists voted for HC- hopefully all of them risked their seat as their ideals do not match the ideals of the people. But nobody at the Tea Party is waving a sign saying never mind what's right, do what works.
held fast

Offline Oldshooter

  • GBO subscriber and supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6426
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2010, 12:36:30 PM »
You holier than thou guys make me laugh. Who said anyone was republican, I didn't! I did just as you did TN I voted for who i thought was best for me and my country sometimes at the peril of me! It just so happened to be Republican!

Show me the Democrat in the last 40 years that was worth his salt and didn't wanna turn the country socialist or wasn't an Idiot!

The OP asked the question about difference in the parties. Sure seems a lot of bad mouthing Republicans going on. Yea the Republicnas blew it when they had the chance but I still wouldn't vote for a progressive democrat. I have had to hold my nose and vote republican but I'll do it everytime one is up against a liberal. Show me a conservative democrat  And NO I still wont vote for as 10% er that has no chance to win and insure another four years of obama.  Thats whats Interesting to me is all you guys up on your pedestals here!  

What if the nonelectable candidate is running a distant third, all you all knowing and all understanding visionaries gonna throw yourselves on your votes to show em! yea that'll show em  ::)  "They" hope you do!  

So let me see here vote for "whomever" not republican, cause we dont wanna seem pragmatic. We should vote for a 10%er so we look like an Idealist. yea thats better!

Kinda like going down with the ship aint it.
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline teamnelson

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2010, 12:47:40 PM »
Well I guess I just lost your vote Oldshooter!  ;D

Dont mean to come across holier than thou at all. Just pointing out that winning an election isnt necessarily a victory. There is a massive push right now to fund the NRCC, to get a Republican in no matter what in every seat this November. I am not convinced that'll be the improvement. By all accounts even by the vote party no matter what crowd, its a move to stop a slide, not swing in the other direction. At some point we have to stop the see-saw, or we'll just keep oscillating around the middle until we can't afford to take care of ourselves. Swapping one party out for another is a guaranteed plan to swap it out again in a decade. At some point you have to break the cycle and start building in a new direction.

How about this? How about you back a GOOD republican, and be willing to risk at the primaries? Make sure our candidates for the seats meet the convictions and ideals that match us, take the risk in the primaries.
held fast

Offline notnowjohn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2010, 01:24:49 PM »
I think this sums it up pretty well. :)

The main political issue of our time isn’t whether markets are always right but whether they are always good. Adam Smith, in “The Wealth of Nations,” advocated free trade based on his theory that the market’s invisible hand would provide for the greater wealth of nations across the social spectrum. This moral vision was long ago abandoned by free marketeers in favor of another theory from the founding era: the inviolability of property rights. But we know that capitalism has historically followed a pattern of boom and bust, a cycle whose impact has been mitigated—in the spirit of Smith’s moral philosophy, and for economic conditions he could not have foreseen—by civic intervention, otherwise called government regulation and progressive taxation. This is the fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats tend to believe that, in the light of our long experience with boom and bust, fiscal policy should provide social and economic equity for the American people. Republicans seem to believe that fiscal policy should protect the acquisition of wealth, however skewed the distribution of wealth may become and however small the number of citizens protected. The difference is abundantly apparent in California today, where the Democratic legacy of equitable distribution of wealth, through public education especially, but also in many other areas, was long ago sacrificed on the altar of property rights in Proposition 13.

Dee E. Andrews
Professor of History
California State University, East Bay
San Francisco, Calif.
Armed Atheist

When legal matters take precedence, brigands and bandits abound.  Lao Tzu

Offline Oldshooter

  • GBO subscriber and supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6426
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2010, 02:13:47 PM »
Well I guess I just lost your vote Oldshooter!  ;D

Dont mean to come across holier than thou at all. Just pointing out that winning an election isnt necessarily a victory. There is a massive push right now to fund the NRCC, to get a Republican in no matter what in every seat this November. I am not convinced that'll be the improvement. By all accounts even by the vote party no matter what crowd, its a move to stop a slide, not swing in the other direction. At some point we have to stop the see-saw, or we'll just keep oscillating around the middle until we can't afford to take care of ourselves. Swapping one party out for another is a guaranteed plan to swap it out again in a decade. At some point you have to break the cycle and start building in a new direction.

How about this? How about you back a GOOD republican, and be willing to risk at the primaries? Make sure our candidates for the seats meet the convictions and ideals that match us, take the risk in the primaries.

FUNNY YOU MENTION LOSING MY VOTE!  i CAME THIS CLOSE "." TO SAYING THAT!!!
But you are in my sights so to speak!  ;)

I wish i could put into words and look you guys in the face and explain where I stand about all of this. I fear I come across harsh and unmoving in my position. That isn't the case I am totally aware of the fools that think that they are a certainty in November. I am fully prepared to scrutinize every one that I can vote for at the very least, and rat out the ones that I cannot, whom I feel are just progressives in Conservative disguise. McCain did not fool me, But neither did Obama. I will happily support the likes of R Paul, if he can garner any semblance of national support, and I'll help him do it!(<read again! Now READ AGAIN!!!!!!!) OR anyone else with any constitutional clarity and respect at all. Is that putting it on the line enough for ya?

I am NOT a Republican, I AM an American who is Deathly afraid that a third party candidate makes an obama win a certainty. Therefore I WILL BE VERY CAREFULL as should we all about who we support in November and in 2012.
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline Oldshooter

  • GBO subscriber and supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6426
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2010, 02:22:37 PM »
I think this sums it up pretty well. :)

The main political issue of our time isn’t whether markets are always right but whether they are always good. Adam Smith, in “The Wealth of Nations,” advocated free trade based on his theory that the market’s invisible hand would provide for the greater wealth of nations across the social spectrum. This moral vision was long ago abandoned by free marketeers in favor of another theory from the founding era: the inviolability of property rights. But we know that capitalism has historically followed a pattern of boom and bust, a cycle whose impact has been mitigated—in the spirit of Smith’s moral philosophy, and for economic conditions he could not have foreseen—by civic intervention, otherwise called government regulation and progressive taxation. This is the fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats tend to believe that, in the light of our long experience with boom and bust, fiscal policy should provide social and economic equity for the American people. Republicans seem to believe that fiscal policy should protect the acquisition of wealth, however skewed the distribution of wealth may become and however small the number of citizens protected. The difference is abundantly apparent in California today, where the Democratic legacy of equitable distribution of wealth, through public education especially, but also in many other areas, was long ago sacrificed on the altar of property rights in Proposition 13.

Dee E. Andrews
Professor of History
California State University, East Bay
San Francisco, Calif.

W T he said, wondering if Prof Andrews ever had a real job in his life!

Social justice makes slaves of people that wait for handouts and Cynics of folks that work hard to accomplish that wealth that progressives wanna redistribute.

Please Define "inviolability"  ???
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline nw_hunter

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5204
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2010, 02:49:06 PM »


FUNNY YOU MENTION LOSING MY VOTE!  i CAME THIS CLOSE "." TO SAYING THAT!!!
But you are in my sights so to speak!  ;)

I wish i could put into words and look you guys in the face and explain where I stand about all of this. I fear I come across harsh and unmoving in my position. That isn't the case I am totally aware of the fools that think that they are a certainty in November. I am fully prepared to scrutinize every one that I can vote for at the very least, and rat out the ones that I cannot, whom I feel are just progressives in Conservative disguise. McCain did not fool me, But neither did Obama. I will happily support the likes of R Paul, if he can garner any semblance of national support, and I'll help him do it!(<read again! Now READ AGAIN!!!!!!!) OR anyone else with any constitutional clarity and respect at all. Is that putting it on the line enough for ya?

I am NOT a Republican, I AM an American who is Deathly afraid that a third party candidate makes an obama win a certainty. Therefore I WILL BE VERY CAREFULL as should we all about who we support in November and in 2012.
[/quote]


You say your not a Republican!
You say...... I am fully prepared to scrutinize every one that I can vote for at the very least, and rat out the ones that I cannot, whom I feel are just progressives in Conservative disguise. McCain did not fool me! But you voted for him didn't ya? I will happily support the likes of R Paul, if he can garner any semblance of national support, and I'll help him do it I thought he did garner a semblance of national support!

BTW........The third part didn't give the election to Obama.
Republicans like my next door neighbor that voted for change after GW did!

Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline alsaqr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1270
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2010, 02:52:23 PM »
Quote
I voted for that sorry piece of crap.....GW Boosh. Look what he gave us for our support!


Quote
Me too.  Feel the same way.



Me three.  The sorry draft dodger asked his putrid buds in the house and senate to delete millions of dollars from military brain injury research and treatment.  

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-08-brain-center_x.htm?csp=34

Quote
House and Senate versions of the 2007 Defense appropriation bill contain $7 million for the Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center — half of what the center received last fiscal year.

Offline teamnelson

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2010, 03:13:15 PM »
Thanks OS, still trying to keep myself electable!  ;D

notnowjohn reveals my concern, and the primary reason why I advocate a resurgence of conservative idealism over pragmatism. Lets be clear - I'm not talking about social agenda, moral majority, or a Christian theocracy. What I am talking about is a return to the notion of a Republic - the fundamental point of the Republican party, which has been lost in the sauce that notnowjohn indicates. We've made property rights our guiding principle. The fact is property rights are a derivative of what should be our guiding principle - liberty.

nnj's post shows us that there is a resurgence of Democratic idealism; the HC bill, education reform, gays in the military ... none of these are pragmatic. None of these are fiscal policy. All of these are derived from the basic Democratic ideal of equity, everyone has the right to the best of everything. So when the Democrats go after property to redistribute, we see it as a property rights issue. Gentlemen, in war that's called a reaction not a response, and no commander wants to be in the reactive mode. They move,we counter move; they control the board.

What we need to do is to counterattack the idealism. Are there people without HC, yes. Is education poor? yes. Is homosexuality a community issue? yes. If our answer is simply, don't take my property, then we are leaving the battlefield to the enemy. And hear me clear, the Democratic movement towards social democracy is a threat to the Constitution to my way of thinking. So we cannot opt out of the conversation, but we should not opt into being the tackling dummy on their ballfield. Instead we should be drawing the Democrats onto our playing field.

Because liberty is not at odds with social concern.

The democrats leverage the fear that if we give individuals liberty, and take social issues out of the hands of the government, those in need will suffer. Sadly, Republicans have not spoken to that fear, and in fact have done a lot to promote that fear. Its going to take a culture shift within the party, and a rebranding of message so that liberty is not viewed as the opposite of community. The message needs to be that we believe in the people of America so much that we want to leave in their hands the means to do what is right. We honor their liberties to work hard, make $, and take care of those in need if and as they see fit. We believe in religious liberty, which always results in strong communities, and meeting the needs of the underprivileged. We believe in educational liberty, because we believe parents are most qualified to care for their children, so rather than take away their parental rights we want to help the successfully ensure a bright future for their children. We believe those governments closest to the issue are the best equipped to lead the solutions, so we do not usurp the power of the states.
held fast

Offline nw_hunter

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5204
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2010, 04:00:20 PM »



 Its going to take a culture shift within the party, and a rebranding of message so that liberty is not viewed as the opposite of community. The message needs to be that we believe in the people of America so much that we want to leave in their hands the means to do what is right.

That would be great TN, but truth is....It's plain to see, it's not happening.
It's up to the states now to step up and take back control, and if they cannot do it, the freedoms you and I have known. (especially those my age) will be gone, and usher in the NWO.

The shift in the Republican party has been going on for some time, and not in the direction you would like to see it go.
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline teamnelson

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2010, 04:26:31 PM »
Me three.  The sorry draft dodger asked his putrid buds in the house and senate to delete millions of dollars from military brain injury research and treatment.  

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-08-brain-center_x.htm?csp=34

Quote
House and Senate versions of the 2007 Defense appropriation bill contain $7 million for the Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center — half of what the center received last fiscal year.
That's awful ... I keep gaffing my TBI appointments since my last hearing test improved, but I know LOTS of folks that will need Brain Injury care to some degree for the rest of their life. Never known a warrior to demand care from citizens ... always expected it to be there on behalf of a grateful nation.
held fast

Offline beerbelly

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2010, 05:28:06 PM »
It is all about power! If the republicans get more people elected with an R in front of their name, they are in power! They get to be the chairmen of all the committees and what ever. If the democrats get the most they are in power. Remember this word POWER!
    This is why the RNC back left wing people like MS. Snowe and Collins! They have an R in front of their name and help to produce the numbers to remain in POWER!
It has nothing to do with what we want , it is about POWER!
                                                      Beerbelly

Offline Oldshooter

  • GBO subscriber and supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6426
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2010, 06:17:38 PM »
I'm moving on I suggest nwhunter you do too.  and please ignore my posts in the future, Pardner
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline bronco73401

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2010, 06:38:21 PM »
This is why im with the Constitution Party! The republican party hasnt been the same since Reagan. And as for the socia....err demacraps well i think that speaks for itself. Yes by God I'm a right wing extremist and proud of it! ;D ;D
NRA Member
USAF Desert Storm Veteran

Offline nw_hunter

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5204
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2010, 04:23:57 AM »
I'm moving on I suggest nwhunter you do too.  and please ignore my posts in the future, Pardner


Most of us that come to this forum are passionate about politics, and come here to have a dialogue about the issues facing us.

We must be able to agree to disagree "imho".
I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I will honor your wish and I won't debate directly with you again.


Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2010, 06:04:02 AM »
Those who say there is no difference between the Dumbycrats and the Republicans have either voted for Dumbycrats in the past and don't want to admit it, or they seize on the fact that there are indeed some squishy Republicans.  Since Zell Miller quit, I don't know of any Dumbycrats that are anything short of a virtual communist in their philosophy.  If that's too harsh, show me where I'm wrong.


The only Democrat I may have voted for, had I been born a few years earlier would have been JFK.
Not really sure, as I was under 21 and serving in the US Army at the time. Up until the last election the only Presidential candidate I have voted for was Republican. After the news media, and the RNC turned their backs on the only conservative running on the Republican ticket, I voted for the Constitution party candidate. I still kick my A - - for voting for GW, but I was still brainwashed into party politics. Party politics is to blame for us being in the shape we are in today.

No one can think for themselves anymore! They seem to need a party to cling to..........To do their thinking for them! Problem is......these people (Dems & Reps)only care about themselves, not you and I.

I voted for that sorry piece of crap.....GW Boosh. Look what he gave us for our support! Undeclared war's, the Dept. of Homeland Security, and the continuation of  open borders, so criminals can invade our country and steal what few jobs we have left.

When the new criminal in charge sends his thugs to arrest you for not buying health insurance..........You party members can thank GW for providing him with a police force (DHS) to make the arrests.

A few Squishy Republicans!..............Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are.


Very interesting that you would bring up JFK.  I can't help wondering what would have happened if GWB had appointed one of his brothers as Attorney General, or if he had busied mimself with whoring around with gangster molls and movie stars.  Dumbycrats have different standards and get away with it--oh wait, maybe JFK didn't really get off scot-free.
Swingem

Offline beerbelly

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2010, 02:21:16 PM »
I had no more use for JFK than i did for Ted.
                   Beerbelly

Offline Oldshooter

  • GBO subscriber and supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6426
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2010, 03:18:26 PM »
Quote
"Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal government."

Quote
"It is no contradiction – the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in today's economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates."

Quote
"In short, it is a paradoxical truth that ... the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this out. This country's own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus."
 

All said by JFK on taxation by the federal government.  Like him or not!

He was no quoir boy! and he was a democrat, but he wouldn't have fit in with the scoundrels that are democrats now.
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline teamnelson

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2010, 04:44:10 PM »
Here's a thought for the GOP, why not a 3rd party running mate? Dennis Miller talked today about getting the Tea Party folks to walk hand in hand with the GOP. Libertarians, Constitutionalists ... there are a few more parties on the right. They bring the passion to the conversation the GOP has lost, and if they worked together they'd pull the GOP back to the right and possibly force a few RINOs to hop out of the boat. But instead of alienating the 3rd party folks, why not co-opt them. Don't force them to give up their idealism or identity, but work with them ... many Americans I talk to today would be defined as Libertarian although they are usually registered Republicans. So why not run a team with a GOP and a Tea Partier, or libertarian, or constitutionalist? Leverage the commonality instead of kicking them to the curb and blaming them for splitting the vote.

Or put a libertarian in the white house with a Republican congress or vice versa. Just trying to think of ways to break out of the oscillating pendulum ride we're on.

p.s. Palin-McCain may be someone's idea of a two party ticket, but I was thinking two conservatives, not a liberal and a conservative.
held fast

Offline jimster

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2237
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2010, 08:39:21 AM »
TN, this is a good idea and would probably be best.  But it would only work if the Republicans would welcome us all in without calling us right wingers, or refering to us as "not moderate enough".  If the Republicans were smart they would realize they do not have a chance without true conservatives either,
same as we conservatives realize we also don't have a chance without representation.  If they want to gain power just to reach across party lines and help spend our money foolishly like before, we will kick them to the curb again and again.  There really isn't a such thing as middle of the road when it comes to conservatism and the constitution, the sooner they realize that the better off they will be.  I want people who will hold down the liberal movement, and stand on them, and not let them up for any reason....no middle of the road, no reaching out, nothing.  50 percent of a bad legislation is still bad legislation, no matter how you look at it.  It's up to the Republican party to clean themselves up some, and welcome us in with open arms.  In our state we have had republicans in power who put down people like me openly, and say on record that us conservatives need to lighten up and move to the middle. So I vote against those kind of Republicans.

I will never lighten up and move to the middle...there is no middle for me on certain issues. 

Offline teamnelson

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2010, 12:17:01 AM »
TN, this is a good idea and would probably be best.  But it would only work if the Republicans would welcome us all in without calling us right wingers, or refering to us as "not moderate enough".  If the Republicans were smart they would realize they do not have a chance without true conservatives either,
same as we conservatives realize we also don't have a chance without representation.  If they want to gain power just to reach across party lines and help spend our money foolishly like before, we will kick them to the curb again and again.  There really isn't a such thing as middle of the road when it comes to conservatism and the constitution, the sooner they realize that the better off they will be.  I want people who will hold down the liberal movement, and stand on them, and not let them up for any reason....no middle of the road, no reaching out, nothing.  50 percent of a bad legislation is still bad legislation, no matter how you look at it.  It's up to the Republican party to clean themselves up some, and welcome us in with open arms.  In our state we have had republicans in power who put down people like me openly, and say on record that us conservatives need to lighten up and move to the middle. So I vote against those kind of Republicans.

I will never lighten up and move to the middle...there is no middle for me on certain issues. 

My read on most of the self-declared Republicans on GBO is that they come from the right-wing of the party already. The difference between them and most Tea Partiers, Libertarians or Constitutionalists is simply loyalty or tradition. On the issues, they think the same. Got no use for a moderate of any stripe ... Jesus said something about being lukewarm and being puked out (author's paraphrase). No problems with a diplomat - someone who sees both sides of the fence and is loyal for his own. Perhaps a conservative resurgence within the party would bring a lot of folks back under the tent. And perhaps we should choose a few diplomats, vice moderates, to engage the other side.

Perhaps there are 3 parties - conservative, moderate, liberal - wearing a dozen different labels. The last 2 would share the same agenda.
held fast

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31302
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2010, 07:46:32 AM »
  Right on TN;
   It is ridiculous for those of us who truly are of a conservative stripe to "cut off our noses..just to spite our face". The chance for any 3rd party to gain enough strength this year is rather moot. There is truly a struggle going on right at this moment for the heart of the Republican party. It is epitomised by the senate race in Florida; Christ a moderate (read liberal) vs Rubio a conservative. Obviously, if one would like the Republican party to return to it's traditional roots..back Rubio. In Arizona, if you don't like McCain..back J.D. Hayworth  ..or if the tea party puts up a good candidate go that way (remembering you may be splitting the conservative vote).
   Be careful, some tea party folks say a"he is not one of us"...still others say he is a plant by the Harry Reid camp, intended to split the conservative vote in Nevada..so Reid can get back in ! Harry Reid wouldn't that dishonest, would he ? ;) :D ;D
    I even am suspect of some who claim to be conservatives and say "don't vote for the Republican, even if he/she is a conservative !"
  How do we know they are not just closet Democrats running politically, what TM would call a "false flag" operation ? Could that be happening right here ?
   How about those who say, "I would never vote for Sarah Palin"...yet give no clear and honest reason for their claim ? Yes; one could say  a candidate is "dumb' or a number of other adjectives such as were used against people such a Washington, Jackson and Lincoln  :D, but with no substantive reason for making their claim. Are they just trying to slander Palin in favor of WHOEVER she may run against ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline steve y

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 151
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2010, 08:41:28 AM »
We have to have our gaurd up and not let it down for a minute. There are political opportunists that will try to benefit from this movement that has started at the grassroots level. If there is anyone who has held political office they have a voting record. We need to use that as a starting point to hold them accountable and question them why we should believe them now that they are saying what we want to hear. My philosophy is to throw out the encumbent period. The republicans aren't anymore trustworthy than the commies. I believe that most of them voted against HC because they want to take back power in Nov. and nothing more. That's why we need to vote all of them out and start over. We need people in there that don't have a track record in DC. They have given us no reason to trust them one iota. Steve

Offline 45-70.gov

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7009
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2010, 11:02:29 AM »
all  the RINOs  we  wine  about

could have been  stopped at the primaries
had enough  GOOD  people  gotten involved
mccain  should never  been re-elected  a senator
....except for liberal  republicans  in the prinaries
he would have just been a  way  hero....no minor  accomplishment

ONLY THE REPUBLICANS  CAN DEFEAT THE DEMOCRATS

GET OVER IT
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline steve y

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 151
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2010, 12:28:04 PM »
Get over what??? Get over the fact that conservatives don't have a place in the Big R. If all we have to choose from is commie and commie light that is no choice. If true conservatives can take the party to where it is suppose to be then we the people have a good chance to effect change. If all we get is the same we've had in the past then we won't be able to change anything. Steve

Offline 45-70.gov

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7009
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2010, 01:28:11 PM »
Get over what??? Get over the fact that conservatives don't have a place in the Big R. If all we have to choose from is commie and commie light that is no choice. If true conservatives can take the party to where it is suppose to be then we the people have a good chance to effect change. If all we get is the same we've had in the past then we won't be able to change anything. Steve


they  will have a place if they  take  it

or they can join  a 3rd party with  no  chance
sit  home and  whine

or  get involved  in the republican primaries  at  ALL  levels
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline jimster

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2237
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2010, 02:45:34 PM »
Seems to me the republicans are the ones in trouble here.  Am I missing something?  They got the boot for being less than conservative. 
I don't think they have a whole lot of power without true conservatives...I rest my case on that and show you now they are not in power...because of the likes of people like me.

So I'll say this best I know how...

Reublicans can get more conservative or we will keep them where they are now.  How is that working for them so far?  Not too good is it?

They can also, after many more years of people like me keeping them where they are...stop whining and join a third party.  Which they will after so many years of absolutely no power.  Just a matter of time.  I got time.

I'm sorry...but I'm not seeing the republicans as having anything lately...we took it from them.  We will keep it from them as long as it takes.

Republicans will run the show when conservatives say they can.  Conservatives have the real edge here, not the republican party.

Somebody better figure out who is voting out the republicans...and it aint the democrats.   ;)

The republicans want their power back, they best shape up...or we will keep them where they are now, and where they have been most the time over the last 50 years...in the minority.  It's up to them. 

The big R can't survive without conservatives...they best figure that out.  A lot of other people depending on the big R best figure that out as well and pass them the word.  Or they will be in for one long rough ride.
 





Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2010, 03:34:06 PM »
Seems to me the republicans are the ones in trouble here.  Am I missing something?  They got the boot for being less than conservative. 
I don't think they have a whole lot of power without true conservatives...I rest my case on that and show you now they are not in power...because of the likes of people like me.

So I'll say this best I know how...

Reublicans can get more conservative or we will keep them where they are now.  How is that working for them so far?  Not too good is it?

They can also, after many more years of people like me keeping them where they are...stop whining and join a third party.  Which they will after so many years of absolutely no power.  Just a matter of time.  I got time.

I'm sorry...but I'm not seeing the republicans as having anything lately...we took it from them.  We will keep it from them as long as it takes.

Republicans will run the show when conservatives say they can.  Conservatives have the real edge here, not the republican party.

Somebody better figure out who is voting out the republicans...and it aint the democrats.   ;)

The republicans want their power back, they best shape up...or we will keep them where they are now, and where they have been most the time over the last 50 years...in the minority.  It's up to them. 

The big R can't survive without conservatives...they best figure that out.  A lot of other people depending on the big R best figure that out as well and pass them the word.  Or they will be in for one long rough ride.
 






I Have stayed completely out of this one, but I must say, this is the best I have seen the issue put. I have been trying to say it for years, but you finally actually got it done. To be conservative, one must "actually be" conservative. Just claiming it, doesn't count.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline 45-70.gov

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7009
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2010, 03:37:48 PM »
republicans  are as liberal  or as consevative

as  the  folks that  vote in the PRIMARIES

the  conservatives  are  scatered  all  over the place

while  2 groups  of liberls [D and R] pick  to only 2 candidates that have a chance

then  you  whine about the  lack  of  choice

when  you  contribute  nothing  in the primaries

i  know  i was in the libertarian  party  for  20 years

wasting  my time and vote
when i could have voted  against  mccain in the primaries
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: No difference between parties ?
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2010, 04:19:02 PM »
 i was in the libertarian  party  for  20 years

wasting  my time and vote
when i could have voted  against  mccain in the primaries

YEP. The primaries are vitally important and overlooked by a lot of folks. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm