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Author Topic: How to make a handi 223 shoot  (Read 843 times)

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Offline ssjohnnie

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How to make a handi 223 shoot
« on: March 23, 2010, 12:00:47 PM »
First cut barrell off at front of lug and throw in trash drill out  stub and screw in douglas prem. bull barrell rechamber and reblue and shoot one hole five shot groups with NO waiting between shots all day long.Just as i though if you got a dang good barrell the rest will fall into place ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Dinny

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 12:35:35 PM »
I'm starting to think that you are 100% correct. Shot mine again today with dismal affects..... :(

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline plumberjoe

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 12:52:17 PM »
You guys try floating the forearm with a rubber washer?
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Offline Dinny

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 12:53:30 PM »
Quote from: plumberjoe on March 23, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
You guys try floating the forearm with a rubber washer?

I've tried everything except pillar and glass bedding.  ;) I don't have the tools or experience to do that either.

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 12:59:55 PM »
I think its the weather , my 223 BB that was shooting 3/4" groups now looks like a shotgun pattern  :o , the fact that I gave it a good scrubbing for the first time in over 5000 rounds may have something to do with it too .  ;D

I just need to fill the barrel with gunk again and I think it will be back to 3/4" in no time .  ;)

stimpy 
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Offline PowPow

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 01:07:13 PM »
What exactly is a reasonable expectation of accuracy for these things?
Should I expect the same accuracy from my NEF 223 as I get from my Ruger No.1-V 22-250?
One day my NEF will get 1/2" groups. Another, its 1". Another, its 1-1/2". same load.
A bad day with the Ruger is 1/2".

Dinny, how are you defining "dismal"?

Last night I discovered my varmint forearm was touching the barrel downstream of the lug. sanded it some. bought some washers. will see what happens.

maybe I clean it too much.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 01:13:50 PM »
Quote from: PowPow on March 23, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
Dinny, how are you defining "dismal"?


1"-1 1/2" groups at 60yds from the most preferred bullet so far. It also doesn't like my reloads any either. I get quite a few FTFs from it.  Factory(expensive) loads fire fine and deliver 1 1/4" accuracy at 100yds.

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline gendoc

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 01:19:50 PM »
mostly when i see that kinda thing happen with other folks firearms,
it's usually something other than the barrel....
but cleaning will cause it, loose or flakey scope, contaminated powder/primers,
combination of reloading components and application.
cud be alot of things. including weather conditions.
don't yall give up....this is where the fun starts  ;D
i call it....troublesnort'n ;)
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Offline plumberjoe

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 01:22:43 PM »
Glass bedding doesn't require a ton of tools or skill.  Larry Potterfield from Midway USA has a good video on You Tube regarding the proper way to glass bed a rifle.  What weight bullets are you using? are they handloads? have you shot the gun with the forearm off?  How many pounds does your trigger break at?  Are you using a Bipod?  Has your Barrel been broken in?  Is it your scope, or rings?  I never have owned a gun that didn't shoot to my liking, but from the sounds of it these rifles can be a PITA to get shooting good.  How long do you wait between shots?  Is the crown Damaged?
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Offline PowPow

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 01:29:49 PM »
Okay, but if the next thousand rounds don't do better than the last thousand, I might start to get discouraged.
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Offline McLernon

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 02:01:31 PM »
I gave up on Handi's because of erratic accuracy. I pllar bedded, glass bedded the the forearm and the action itself. I think it's the barrels and until Remington 'fixes' the problem I will remain unhappy and Handi-less. Come on Remington put on better barrels.
JMHO

Mc ;D
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Offline Dinny

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 02:46:43 PM »
Quote from: PowPow on March 23, 2010, 01:29:49 PM
Okay, but if the next thousand rounds don't do better than the last thousand, I might start to get discouraged.

I couldn't agree more!!!!  ;) ;D

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline 44 Man

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 03:28:56 PM »
I have a .223 Handi on layaway now.  A friend of mine is paying on it as he owes me for a used Dillon.  Knowing that these barrels shoot the best after a good break in, I plan to put 100 rounds of Wolf steel jacketed bullet through it first.  Then I'll begin to work with it and see what it will do.  Hopefully, it won't require much.  I expect 1" or less from it, my Bushmaster (standard barrel) AR will do that, less on a good day.  I would expect my Handi to do as well.  We'll just have a go at it and see what happens.  Won't get it picked up until this summer, but we'll have a full report then.  44 Man
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Offline ssjohnnie

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2010, 04:04:44 PM »
when through it all and as far as all this stuff about break in and forarm and all the other stuff the douglas needed no break in and the forearm is glass beded all the way no free float  and like i said 5 shots at 100 one hole and one shot after another no waiting warm or cold a very good barrel make all the diffrence in the world if Remington put good barrels on these guns they all shoot good and they sell like hot cakes but no they put what ever is left over from there good stuff on them very sad :-\
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Offline catman50plus

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2010, 08:18:18 PM »
I didn't notice how old your barrels are. Are these some of the new Remington production or some of the older ones? My rifle does a pretty good job, and was thinking of getting a new barrrel but if they are not up to snuff, that will be out of the question.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 08:22:34 PM »
There are no Remington made barrels, Marlin is making the barrels, has been since late 2006, will be until later this year when Ilion will start making them.

Tim
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 04:47:39 AM »
It is interesting to see how much difference the Douglas barrel made. I have wandered how much the accuracy inconsistencies were due to barrels, the overall design of the rifle or just quality control. They are bottom end rifles so I would guess one should not expect .5 groups out of every rifle. The only Handi I have owned and still do is the .243 with the 20" bull barrel. I have never been able to get it it shoot consistently with either factory loads or reloads and yes I have been through all the FAQs, different scopes, etc.. At this time I have probably fired around three hundred rounds. Even with the bull barrel it will start vertically stringing the shotgun pattern ( most groups at a 100 yards are in the 4-8 inch range) after about three shots and that includes waiting about a minute between shots with the action open and no cartridge in it. I know in the past Tim has said that I should return it to the factory but it is kind of like gambling thinking that I will find the magic combination and I didn't want to spend the shipping money. Tim, is it to late now to return it under warranty due to accuracy issues? I have had it for about five years now. Also, if the factory then says that they can get a sub two inch with whatever ammo they use am I still stuck if will not shoot anything else well? Under these conditions what could I expect to sell it for in like new condition? I now have a Savage .243 and get between .5 and .75 groups all day long with it.
Sorry about the rant but it has been frustrating. 
GuzziJohn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 06:42:50 AM »
If it won't shoot 2" or under, 100yd 3-shot groups with factory ammo, they'll fix it so it will, never has mattered if it was new or several years old or even the original owner. Have you shot it without the forend as described in the Handi Basics sticky? I've not had problems stringing the first 3 shots with my 243 Superlight or my 260 Rem Superlight. BTW, H&R has never made a 20" bull barrel, the only 20" barrel they've made is in the Superlight contour, in 243, the most finicky of all barrels, but they can be made to shoot very well with the right load and forend fit, if the forend is too tight, and that's how they usually come from the factory more often than not, it needs to be addressed, see forend fit in the FAQs.   ;)

Tim
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Offline D Humbarger

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2010, 06:49:29 AM »
Have you thought of lapping the barrel?
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 07:05:21 AM »
Tim,
22" then? Is a bull anyway with the laminated stock. Forearm off makes no difference however the O-ring and not tightening the screw as much as it came from the factory helped a bit with some loads. Latch is dry and the rifle appears to lock up well and really has a decent trigger. Groups are done off of a benchrest with the bag right in front of the trigger guard and follow through with the trigger. What is weird to me anyway is that it shoots best with either 55gr. or 95gr (2-4"), but the worst groups are around 8" with 58gr Hornady. With my reloads I have only used H-4895 which works great in the Savage with the 58gr 70gr or 95gr. Powder weight changes do not appear to make any change in accuracy. I have been using Federal small rifle match primers. At this point if I return it will I be paying shipping both ways? I have not tried lapping the barrel. It does not seem to have any tight spots and the crown appears fine. Thanks for your patience with me. I would like to use it as a truck/ATV gun around my place as I have yotes, skunks (did get a skunk with it at about 40 yds, 55gr tore it up) and have state permission to shoot my problem beavers if given an opportunity.
GuzziJohn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2010, 07:16:59 AM »
I only know of one other member that fire lapped his 223 H&R, as shallow as the rifling is in H&Rs, it's not a good idea IMO, his result were disastrous, accuracy was even worse afterwards.  :-\ Have you tried to touch up the crown? It's easy to do, see the FAQs on that. If it doesn't help, contact H&R and let them know what you've done and how bad it is,  they may cover return shipping, but only if you ask, it's worth a try.   ;)

Tim
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2010, 07:43:09 AM »
Thanks Tim. I will take a look at retouching the crown. It may be some little thing like that. I guess the frustration comes from not being able to really find anything amiss unless the barrel is just screwed or something.
GuzziJohn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2010, 07:49:01 AM »
It wouldn't be the first screwed up barrel, 95 Roadking had a 204 Ruger barrel that only had rifling in half the bore!!! ...which they replaced. My 270 Fluted bull barrel is overbore enough(.2795") that it won't shoot better than 4-5" at 100yds, but shoots 7mm bullets into an inch.

Tim
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2010, 09:26:13 AM »
By the way Tim for better or worse from the looks of your picture you could be my twin brother including the beard. When I get a chance I will post a picture. I was adopted at birth, not any chance that you were?
GuzziJohn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How to make a handi 223 shoot
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2010, 10:04:03 AM »
Oh that's great, someone else matching my good looks!!  :o ;D Nope, all family members are accounted for.  ;)

Tim
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