Author Topic: Remington 405 grain in the Handi (Read 1495 times)

xhare · « **on:** March 23, 2010, 05:50:22 PM »

I have shot a lot of different bullets from my Handi 45-70 but never the Remington 405 grain. What are your experiences with this bullet performance-wise?

Also, I have read that when handloading it for the Marlin it needs to be crimped in front of the 'shoulder'. Can it be crimped in the front crimping groove instead when used in the Handi? I know that Handi 45-70s dont have long throats, but lots of 45-70 bullets have a bit of full diameter are in front of the crimp groove.

Thanks all.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2010, 01:41:29 AM »

Just started loading for the 45 70 for my 22" HANDI. I have loaded about 40 of the REM 405 SPs. I measured the distance to the lands on several bullets and have been loading these at 2.625" OAL. I am using a Lee Factory Crimp set to max and the end of the case is between the two bands on the bullet. The bullets are sitting on H4198 powder I have shot up to 50.2 grains with no signs of over pressure. I have not yet setup the chrono for these loads. I have been getting 2" groups @ 100 yds with a very cheap fixed power scope. Heading to Cabelas Friday to improve my optics.

I believe these bullets in the Remington Factory Loads are in the 1300 FPS range and my guess is if my shoulder hangs on I will be pushing them close to 2000 FPS so probably a good I idea to see what the extra 700 FPS does to the bullet on impact. I want to use these on deer, but not if they act like a varmit gernade on impact at higher velocity.

Good luck!

gendoc · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2010, 01:45:05 AM »

405 @ 2000..??

Darreld Walton · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:17:00 AM »

One of the 'beauties' of a single shot .45-70 is that it is not necessary to crimp in any fashion. There is no magazine spring, nor pressure on the front of the cartridge attempting to push the bullet back.
The ONLY reason you might find it necessary to crimp for a single shot is with a load that needs a bit more resistance on the bullet release at the git for consistent and complete burn. Now, if I had a magazine gun in the closet next to my Handi, and wanted to keep the bullets in place, a crimp would be appropriate.
The 405 Remington is a decent enough bullet, and if you prefer a jacketed bullet to cast, and want to shoot more, it's about the most reasonably priced bullet out there, and yes, they shoot just fine.
With a bullet seated out farther in a long throated rifle, I'd just run it into the seating die enough to get rid of the 'bell' at the case mouth and call it good. Note that you're increasing the internal capacity doing that, and it may change the way the load performs, so some charge adjustment may be needed to get back the published performance.
The Marlin Cowboy gun I had would not feed the Remington 405 unless it was seated below the front driving band, leaving the case mouth hanging in the air. In THAT rifle, I had to trim the cases well below the 'trim-to' length, and crimp into the jacket as far forward as I could. Started shooting the 350 Hornady in that rifle, and got rid of all the hassle, more velocity, and got a more stoutly constructed bullet. That rifle is the only .45-70 lever gun I've loaded for, and others may handle the load just fine at published COAL. What was happening in that rifle is that the round would exit the tube, but was long enough that the bullet, while the cartridge was on the lift lever, was hanging up on the receiver, and I'd have to disassemble the rifle to clear the jam. Bad JuJu.....
With the caveat that I've not personally shot a game animal with the bullet, I've heard that they'll kill anything on this continent just fine with a proper hit. A poorly hit animal dies ugly no matter what it's hit with. I don't believe that I'd be out trying to put Dumbo or M'Bogo down with one on purpose, but if it's what I had in my rifle on a moose hunt and had to argue with Mr. Griz on the trail, I'd perforate 'im in a heart beat with it.

Swampman · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2010, 03:30:06 AM »

IMO the Remington 405 factory load & the 405 grain Remington bullet for reloading are the best available for the .45-70.

xhare · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2010, 12:20:32 PM »

Thanks for the info. The Hornady 350 gr round nose has been my hunting bullet for years. Works great. I would like to give the Rems a try though. First though I have to look back through what I have, I have some lead bullets I need to shoot up as well.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2010, 01:19:53 PM »

Is feeding in a Lever gun why Hornady trims the brass so short on the 45 70 Leverolution Ammo?

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2010, 01:28:54 PM »

So they can get the long rubber bullets to feed in a Marlin 1895. I refuse to buy any of the LE ammo because it's not reloadable as far as I'm concerned. I have no use for gimicky stuff.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:16:28 PM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on March 24, 2010, 01:19:53 PM

Is feeding in a Lever gun why Hornady trims the brass so short on the 45 70 Leverolution Ammo?

Yes..That is the reason.

Mac

OSOK · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:28:39 PM »

Hmmm...405 grain slug at 2000 fps...
That sounds a lot like a .416 Taylor I used to own.
I'm gonna have to try that in my BC!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:43:20 PM »

I ran mine at 1950 fps..and my bruiser 405 gr.Cast Performance WLNGC at 2115 fps..The groups here was from my Optima Elite http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,115587.0.html

Defiantly not for the recoil shy or timid shooters..

You can ask Dinny about them if you want..he did shoot my loads..

BTW..I have run them faster..but won't publish the loads for either...and don't recommend doing that..You won't really gain much more even being pushed 100-150 fps faster except a sore shoulder..

Mac

tykempster · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2010, 03:29:41 AM »

I shoot these bullets in my 45-120 and they held up well enough to go through both sides of a deer.

coues2506 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:47:14 AM »

I have been using this bullet for years in my handi- it's great. I use trapdoor loads of Sr4759 or H4198, crimp in the rear grove and accuracy is outstanding. Vel is in the 1300fps neighborhood and nothing has ever gotten up and walked away. Easy on the shoulder too.

rex6666 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:14:12 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on March 24, 2010, 01:28:54 PM

So they can get the long rubber bullets to feed in a Marlin 1895. I refuse to buy any of the LE ammo because it's not reloadable as far as I'm concerned. I have no use for gimicky stuff.

One thing about Hornady, their "gimicks" just keep on going and working

Ranger J · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:20:27 AM »

I have excellent results using the 405 over a trapdoor load of 2400. Mild to shoot and packs a punch.

RJ

Swampman · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2010, 06:40:49 AM »

Quote from: rex6666 on March 25, 2010, 05:14:12 AM

Quote from: Swampman on March 24, 2010, 01:28:54 PM
So they can get the long rubber bullets to feed in a Marlin 1895. I refuse to buy any of the LE ammo because it's not reloadable as far as I'm concerned. I have no use for gimicky stuff.

One thing about Hornady, their "gimicks" just keep on going and working

That's not what I keep reading all over the Internet but hey a whole bunch of folks could be wrong.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2010, 07:27:43 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on March 24, 2010, 03:30:06 AM

IMO the Remington 405 factory load & the 405 grain Remington bullet for reloading are the best available for the .45-70.

Does anyone know the velocity range the Remmy 405's are good thru? Will they hold up at faster-than-factory speeds?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2010, 07:45:22 AM »

There a some good reports in the reviews at Midway.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601214242

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,39629.msg225389.html#msg225389

gstewart44 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2010, 08:23:32 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on March 24, 2010, 03:30:06 AM

IMO the Remington 405 factory load & the 405 grain Remington bullet for reloading are the best available for the .45-70.

Swampman,

do you use the Factory loads or do you make your own reloads with tthe 405? If so what velocities are you getting?

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2010, 09:10:21 AM »

I use both. With handloads I try not to exceed 1500. I just don't see the need.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 25, 2010, 09:35:20 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on March 25, 2010, 09:10:21 AM

I use both. With handloads I try not to exceed 1500. I just don't see the need.

Thanks! I'm going to give these a try. I previously have been casting my own but these certainly look promising and they are really affordable.

Frank V · « **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2010, 06:03:15 PM »

I have shot the Remington 405 gr SP in .45-70s & .458 WIN MAGs. Velositys have run from 1500fps in the .45-70 to an actual chronographed 2338 in the .458. Accuracy is very good I was getting 1" groups in the .458 with the 2300 load, & 1-3/4" groups from the iron sighted .45-70, both @ 100 yards. I haven't taken any game with it yet, but intend to given the chance. I really like that bullet.

Frank

oneshotonekill · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2010, 09:53:09 AM »

In my BC the 405 rem loads shot good so I bought a bunch of the 405 sp's and started playing with different loads. All of them seemed to shoot well and I settled on a load that gets me right around 1600 fps. It has plenty of punch and isn't too bad in the recoil dept.