Author Topic: .308 Survivor Cont'd..Distance tested last night.. (Read 1407 times)

Glockfan · « **on:** March 25, 2010, 06:41:52 AM »

I think I have come to the conclusion of my problem... As much as I didn't want to admit it... after shooting last night... I don't think my scope can handle the recoil of the .308... What I was using wasn't anything special.. but I assumed it would do the job... well the scope is not coming lose... but I honestly feel that its just not staying on zero from shot to shot.

I put a three rounds down range at 100 yards and the group was... not great, but decent enough I felt I could move back... I moved back to two hundred.. first shot was about an inch right and 2 inches low on the target.. (no adjustment...) next four shots didn't hit the paper $:-\$ (again, prone off a rest right in front of trigger guard)

went down and checked... no signs of impact from four missing bullets.. after doing this a few more times and not hitting the target... I posted targets all around it to make it bigger...

all of the sudden the gun was shooting 16+ inches high.....8inches left. consistantly.

So I dialed it back in.. one or two on the paper... then they started flying up again.... The scope rail is bedded with loctite and the scope is bolted down so hard you CANT loosen it with your hands if you tried. its not coming loose...

So, I have to assume its the scope... if you would please recommend me some respectable scopes at a reasonable price range please. Funds are not UNlimited. lol. I want the best quality I can get for the dollar. I would like a scope that I can comfortably reach out to two hundred yards or so and that can obviously handle the gun. I am not gonna be shooting much past 200yds.. unless I just get bored and want to see how far I can shoot lol. For hunting purposes.. typically inside 200yds. So any advice is appreciated. Thanks for the help so far.
-dcary7

**on a side note, I got to shoot a dragonov (sp?)... that was alot of fun

Oldshooter · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2010, 06:53:07 AM »

maybe the scope. I always put a big piece of butcher paper on my backstop with my target on it when ever i am shooting long distances so as not to have the "missing bullet" thing happen. even at 100 for a new scope or rifle. Try a good leupold, it will tell the truth from my experience.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2010, 06:59:10 AM »

Give us a $$ amount that you want to spend, there are a lot of excellent scopes in the $100-$200 range, a couple that I'd recommend right up front are the Mueller 3-9x40 Hybrid, Leupold VX-I 2-7x33 and the new Redfield Revolutions in 2-7x or 3-9x would be good to consider too, all under $200 and all are Handi friendly for hammer clearance.

Tim

petemi · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2010, 07:13:23 AM »

I've got a whole bunch of cheap junk rifles....Handis, etc., all glassed with cheap junk scopes....Simmons, Tasco, etc. Funny thing....till my old eyes went south, I never missed a thing I laid my crosshairs on. For my bucks, I'd say the Bushnell Banner is the best scope around for the money.....but ya gotta understand, I'm just an old cheapskate. I honestly cannot tell the difference between a hundred dollar scope and a thousand dollar one......not enough to make up for the diifference.

Pete

Kal52 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2010, 08:25:20 AM »

ive had a lot of bushnell, and simmons, the latter not being as good, but they work.
all have been in the 100-150 price range and Ive been satisfied.

I just recently got a millet 1-4 dms scope, around the 200 dollar mark and I love it, may not be as powerful as you need/want but its pretty cool but heavy, Im starting to like the millets, built like tanks and resonable.

burris makes some fairly reasonable scopes as well. have a few and like em. just a bit more spendy.

havent had too much trouble clearing the hammers, maybe one or two, mostly all good.

Good Luck

Dave

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2010, 08:37:27 AM »

I am not that familiar with the recoil of the .308 but site sponsor Mueller sells a 4.5-14x40AO scope that I have used many times at 200 yrds plus and like them alot for the $$ even thier 3x9's will work for sure. Less than $140. Kurt

burntmuch · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2010, 08:44:23 AM »

Id usually recomend a Burris, but their lower end scope are made overseas now. So Id recommend one of the Redfields. Under $200 & sounds like a real good scope. If your budget is closer to the $300 range then go for a Leupold.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2010, 09:16:02 AM »

You can get a leupold rifleman for 150 to 175. some of the wally worlds around here carry em.

Macphoto · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2010, 11:23:43 AM »

From what you describe, the scope may be out of it's "sweet spot", or optical center. One way to detect this is when you make a vertical adjustment only, and get a horizontal one to go with it. Mechanical zero and optical zero are seldom the same. Even a cheap scope will hold zero better when it is optically centered and put on target with shims or an adjustable mount. It will also give you the most adjustment range to work with. If anyone is interested in the "how to" for centering, I will post it.

Airsporter · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2010, 11:27:24 AM »

Quote from: burntmuch on March 25, 2010, 08:44:23 AM

Id usually recomend a Burris, but their lower end scope are made overseas now.

How about the Fullfield II's?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2010, 12:04:48 PM »

Centering the reticle by Leupold, link is also in the FAQs here.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,150603.msg1098631050.html#msg1098631050

hhunter · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2010, 12:25:28 PM »

I had a Mueller 3x10x44 Sport Dot laying around and put that on my .308 Handi and it works great. Used medium Burris signature z rings and it went on fine. It is rather big on the short barreled gun but works very well for what I use it for. It is a tough scope for the dough. It came off a chopped Tikka T3 Lite .308 that has sent many rounds down range. Felt like I needed smaller and better glass on that one.

I think they make a 2x7 that is smaller. I like Tim's idea on the Leupold 2x7 as well. I just need illuminated reticles or it would have been the Leupold for sure.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2010, 12:27:55 PM »

I have several Fullfields and they work just fine for me but all mine were bought used and if I was buying new I would give the Muellers a try if for no other reson than they help pay the Bill's here. Kurt

necchi · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2010, 12:29:36 PM »

I've got a story just like that dcary. Beat myself up pretty good trying to find a load for my 7-08.
Finally a guy at the range said, "I'll bet it's your scope." I didn't want to do it because once you have a scope dialed in good you don't want to mess with it, but I pulled one off the 223, dropped it on the 7-08 and sure enough I started seeing the proper results immediatly.
Lesson learned; Even old reliable scopes can fail

, that scope was on a different gun and working the previous fall!

That was last summer, I have 3 barrels with scopes, all have the same rings. Kinda had in mind that if something fails in the future, I can swap scopes and be relitivley close.
There have been several, "What scope?" topics recently just go back and do some reading. The biggest deal is the rear objective housing and hammer clearance and the hight of the rings for proper viewing. If yer a sawed-off runt like me it's no fun crankin yer neck way up just too look through the scope. Spend as much as you can afford, it pays in the long haul.

p.s. That 7-08 is shooting 2" groups at 200

$200 Scheels 3x10 44mm and $35 Weaver tactical rings.

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2010, 12:53:27 PM »

We scoped my son-in-laws survivor with Simmons glass at about $90.00 from our local gun shop. After break in it shoots well and holds zero. Is it as good as Nikon or Leupo? Certainly not, but like you I don't have the do re mi right now to invest in more, and the S-I-L leaves all that to me.

When he gets back from his little visit to our Middle Eastern neighbors, I'm going to suggest he invest in better glass and pass the Simmons down to me....

Glockfan · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:06:46 PM »

Yeah 100-200 is my price range. I'll look into the one's you all suggested.

Thanks,

dcary7

Glockfan · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:41:56 PM »

I am leaning towards this one:

Mueller 8.5-25x44 mm AO Tactical Scope

It says it is designed to handle the recoil of higher caliber rifles, and it would more than do the job.

dcary7

spikehorn · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:54:24 PM »

I have a Nikon pro staff on mine got it at Dick's SG for $159 I think. Whacked a 3 point buck at 160 yards. I too like the busnell banners I have them on some of my bolt guns and on my kids pump slug gun, just like the Nikons better on handi's cause you can mount them lower

MSP Ret · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:03:23 PM »

The new Redfields are said to be made by Leupold and what I have read of them they look real good, and the prices are great. I am going to be ordering a 2x7x33 which are list priced at $130. The 3x9x40's are list priced at $140. I have yet to see what they might really sell for but I would hope a bit under list price, as with just about everything else in this world....<><....

P.S. - there is a nice write up about the new Redfield's in the new issue of American Rifleman...

hhunter · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:20:58 PM »

dcary7 Do a search for eabco or e. a. brown co. and check the prices on mueller. Think they have free shipping plus sun shade or some other freebie. Don't know if I was supposed to post that info or not. Sorry if I wasn't. That is where picked up a couple of Muellers in the past.

hh

Glockfan · « **Reply #20 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:32:39 PM »

Thank you for the posts. I will definitely check them all out before I make my decision.

Really appreciate everyone's input from this site. Very helpful.

dcary7

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:43:30 PM »

I've got one of the 8.5x25 Muellers and they are plenty powerful I have mine on my 25/06 for long range Prarie Poodles my problem at 4-500yrds and that thing cranked up to 15-18 is I see my heart beat every time and have a hard time holding on target. 12 ain't to bad though. If I had the chance I would trade it for a 4.5x14 though. Kurt

Glockfan · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:47:15 PM »

Quote from: PHATINJUN on March 25, 2010, 05:43:30 PM

I've got one of the 8.5x25 Muellers and they are plenty powerful I have mine on my 25/06 for long range Prarie Poodles my problem at 4-500yrds and that thing cranked up to 15-18 is I see my heart beat every time and have a hard time holding on target. 12 ain't to bad though. If I had the chance I would trade it for a 4.5x14 though. Kurt

So you think it is over-scoping to put that much on there?

hhunter · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2010, 06:08:47 PM »

If I may. What is your main use for the rifle? I have a Mueller 4.5 x 14 or whatever it is on .17 savage. I never use it. A 3x10 is about the most I would ever need for my uses. 1.5 x 5 is what I use the most during the day. (hog hunting) Switchover to a 3x10 at night and have never used more than 7 power. I guess if I were punching paper I would use it more but the 4.5 x 14 is too much for me. Agree on what INJUN said bout the higher powers. If I needed that much magnification it would not be a Mueller. Can't expect it to do that much in that price range.

That being said I do like the Muellers in the 3x9x40 and 3x10x44 offerings. For me less is more.

hh

Glockfan · « **Reply #24 on:** March 25, 2010, 06:36:14 PM »

It varies.. "most" of time time it will probably be paper punching, and I would be curious to see what kind of range could be achieved out of my handi. However, I also intend to use it for coyote hunting here in Indiana. At the moment, while I live in IN that is about the extent of its use. I may take it to do some hunting down in Arkansas as well this year.

So, you feel that this scope is too cheap to do what it says? I have never used a Mueller before, was just looking up the ones that people had suggested. I hadn't found any negative reviews on it. Would the same scope in 4.5-14x40 be better? or would you not even recommend one of that high of power?
I am not gonna rush into a purchase, gonna get plenty of info and opinions on them first.

dcary7

hhunter · « **Reply #25 on:** March 25, 2010, 08:51:53 PM »

I guess I miss worded that a little. I like the 2 Muellers that I have. 3x10x44 and then I had to go check the 4x16x50. They are both great for the money (inexpensive) for what you get. They also happen to be my least expensive scopes that I currently own. I have not studied up on the 4.5x14x40. My 4x16x50 is a big scope and it I like it for shooting at small varmints at longer ranges. It is sitting on that Savage .17 HMR I mentioned earlier. Just don't use it all that much anymore. Hogs are eating all the smaller varmints anyways.

It is just the higher powers (for me after 7 on both scopes) seem to get more critical on eye relief and wash/fade out. Meaning I have to hold "just right" to get a clear sight picture and not black out if this makes sense. They are less forgiving. This becomes even more pronounced in low light situations. I hunt hogs a lot (not with the .17) and those low light/last light times are when it becomes an issue. Once dark, and the feeder lights take over, the Mueller 3x10 works perfectly.

I am new to the Handi scene and had that Mueller laying around so I have been giving it and the new .308 a lot of time. I have several other "hog" guns that are set up with much more expensive glass that I use. It is kinda hard for me to lend those out for loaner guns if you know what I mean. Trying to come up with an economical solution to this is what led me here. Unfortunately, I happen to love that gun and it prompted me to buy another one just like it. The new one will be my personal ranch/truck gun. Trying real hard not to put an Trijicon Accupoint on a Handy. Something about that short heavy single shot I guess.

If you do not need the lower power then maybe go for the scope you have in mind. I would not jump above the 4x16 in anything Mueller. Take a look at the pricing jump from the 3x10 to the higher power and bigger objectives. That should tell you something. I feel that the extra monies paid is not equaled by the performance received. This is not a knock on Mueller just my experience. I really like that 3x10x44 a lot. It has held up to hundreds of .308 (180 grain) rounds and bad conditions while never losing zero. It is now on it's second gun performing just as well as it did on the first. It is a tough scope and I know I can depend on it.

Makes me wonder why now I have all those other "sensitive" guns. I take a look at the Handi/Mueller set up and think it is gonna take a lot to really mess this rig up. I really don't worry about it now. Hope all this was of some use and it did not bore you to death. New to the forum thing so please bear with me.

hh

PigBoy Crabshaw · « **Reply #26 on:** March 25, 2010, 09:08:49 PM »

I had a 4.5x14x40 Nikon Buckmaster on my 308 ultra and it just felt to big.
It was just not Handi anymore.
See my Pic's about 1/2 way in the thread.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,195830.0.html
For sitting on a bench and punching paper would be okay, but if I wanted to take it for a spin in the backcounry would not feel right.
Good luck on what glass you go with.
-gary

Glockfan · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2010, 05:18:14 AM »

Thank ya for the responses. HH that explains it a little better. I understand what you were getting at. I'll do some more research on em. May go with the smaller one. Will see.. any of which is a step up from what I currently have

Thanks for the input

spikehorn · « **Reply #28 on:** March 26, 2010, 06:21:35 AM »

Quote from: dcary7 on March 25, 2010, 05:47:15 PM

Quote from: PHATINJUN on March 25, 2010, 05:43:30 PM
I've got one of the 8.5x25 Muellers and they are plenty powerful I have mine on my 25/06 for long range Prarie Poodles my problem at 4-500yrds and that thing cranked up to 15-18 is I see my heart beat every time and have a hard time holding on target. 12 ain't to bad though. If I had the chance I would trade it for a 4.5x14 though. Kurt

So you think it is over-scoping to put that much on there?

I had an 8X32X44 on my savage 10FP 223 and it was way over scoped could turn the power up past 16x or ended up with the same problem as Kurt, put a 4X16X40 on it problem solved.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 26, 2010, 07:17:53 AM »

I know a lot of guys do fine with high power scopes, Im just not one of them, I guess. Anything over 12X (and really less) is going to need a solid rest and the 'wiggle' you see of the reticule is going to be, well, disconcerting. I see all that and wonder how I can even think about hitting anything. Not good for one's confidence. You will need to practice a lot to get good with high magnification, it has its own learning curve and is not a substitute for the fundamentals.