So Tired of the Crap

[30-30man]

I've grown to hate their quality as they try to compete with entry level stuff.  They just can't do it.  What they bring to the market with the entry level stuff is just complete crap compared to the others.  Of all the problems I've had with guns, most of them have been with the entry-level Remingtons.  They fail to fix things in ther guns that are known flaws.  Instead of fixing a model, they give it a new name and new stock or they just scrap it altogether.  This leaves the customer high and dry and makes people not want to buy a Remington again.  There's only so long you can sell stuff with any name and do stuff like this.  The remington 740,742,7400,viper,597,710,770 I could go on an on. I hope they don't pull this crap with Marlin. The pre-Remington will be a term like the pre-64.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  One point swampman makes that is very true, is guns no longer made are dropped for a reason...Mostly it has to do with the expense of making the firearm..the 99's, model 12's, and 97's were dropped because they were expensive to make...I have two no three model 99's, I admire their workmanship... I have shot game with all three, but there is no way I would carry them for a serious hunt...I have shot several model 97's...I owned one for several years when I was in my late teens...it was a good shooter for small game, and I wish I had kept it, but it did not work as smooth as any of my 870's..it worked well, and was reliable, but NOT as smooth as my 870's....as for the model 12's I have had several...still have a heavy duck that I use for turkey and some waterfowl....while I like it, it has given me feeding problems at different times...my gunsmith told me the design has weak points that when they get out of tune, the gun fails to function...he is one of the best. So I will take his word for it...Say what you will, the basic 700 appeared about 1947, as the 721, that is 63 years of continous service....the model 70 made it from 1937 to 1964, less than 30 years before major design chances were made....that tells me which is more reliable...Also, when I look at the mauser and springfield actions, I remember as a young hunter, looking over dozens of these in semi-custom to full custom rifles...almost always there was something that didn't function properly...In Wolf Man of Alaska, I just read were he had one of the primer custom Springfields of the day an took it caribou hunting only to find it had a weak firing pin and would not fire his ammo...I know Rem. has put out some less than perfect rifles and shotguns, but so has every other company on the planet....So far they have stood the test of time better than most other companies.....

[SHOOTALL]

You call the AR a Remington design ? They were bought by a company that had the design , all they are is a producer like a Jap company . What has Remington come out with in the past 10 years designed in house ?

[mcwoodduck]

You call the AR a Remington design ? They were bought by a company that had the design , all they are is a producer like a Jap company . What has Remington come out with in the past 10 years designed in house ?

Well they came out with the 105 a bottom eject semi auto that NO one wanted and the plastic 870 that takes the 3.5" to compete wit hthe NOVA.

Not interested in plastic guns.  Guns no longer made, are no longer made for good reason.  The 1897 is a very poor design and I've never seen one that was reliable.

True costly production or shifts in demand have seen a number of neat old designs fade away.  The 1897 Pump gun as a costly gun that was made from 1893 to 1953 in many configurations.  the Model 12 was made along side of it but it too ecame too costly to make and the 1300 replaced it.  Much like the Remington Model 8 semi auto rifle.  it was costly to make, and with the adition of new tastes in bullets and higher velocities killed it along with the 25 Rem, 30 Rem ctgs.  The 35 Rem being the only one that lasted past the rifle
As far as never seeing a 97 that worked well, there was an older gentleman that would shoot in the Combat shotgun championships and would won for about four or five years in a row.  the 97 has a shorter stroke than the 870, the ejection port is huge and is easy to get a spare shell in.
No one has said anything bad about Remington here or in most cases about Remington in general on this sight.  Remington makes some good products and have purshased a couple of other good companies and imported some other interesting lines.
I think the CZ rifles are neat and really like the 22 and 223 sized frames but I am willing to look at the 550 and say why short action calibers when the 550 is a long or mag action and think having a 308 Cz 550 is silly.  I will not look down on any choice someone makes for a rifle in 223 that is not a Cz.  I own a 700 SPS in 223 and can see some of the same prolems I so with short action calibers in the 550 Cz.
I can not see the blind brand name loyalty no matter what it is, and I guess that is why I can never understand why smart people vote for Dems over tha past 30 years.

[Spanky]

I stopped in at my local Wal Mart today and checked out the gun racks. They had 2 Remington 700's, a Weatherby, 2 Marlin 30-30's, 3 Pardners and some other shotguns. They even had one of those little Cricket's. They didn't have any Savage's though.



Spanky

[jdinil]

I had a fine 870 once. Took it goose hunting. On the second shot, the barrel came off! The magazine ring on the barrel detached from the barrel! Yeah, I sent both pieces in and they sent me a new barrel.  I still have the thing some where, I think   

[mauser98us]

Even tho I am a Mauser fan, I like anything that shoots.

[84Jim]

Guess I gotta brag on my mid 1980's vintage 700 BDL, 25-06.  I took it to a local clubs 500 yd. F-class match last summer.  My goal was to sight it in at 500, I had no hopes of winning anything.  Most shooters brought custom long range rigs or dedicated varmit guns.  There was at least one Nightforce, and many high end Leupolds on the line.  Mine was the only gun with a sporter wight barrel, and it is topped with a 4-12 Bushnell Scopechief which has been (properly) maligned in the past on other threads in Graybeard.  My loads were 117 Hornady softpoint boattails.  Other guys, almost exclusively Sierra MK's.

Turns out that it was the hottest day of Pennsylvania's summer, something like 94 degrees but very little wind.  The course of fire was sighters, then 20 rounds for record in 20 minutes, prone position (I used a bi-pod).  Well, I shot a 197, 8X, and beat many other shooters.  After 11 or 12 shots, the heat waves from my barrel was distorting the target, so I draped a towel over the barrel which probably heated up the barrel even worse.  Only a 1 click windage adjustment through all that shooting.  I think that is incredible accuracy for a non-free floated sporter weight barrel.  OK, there were several perfect 200's with high X counts, but I know I opened a couple of eyes with those results.

Jim

[Brithunter]

Hey Swampy 

   I simply cannot believe some one who is so blind/blinkered to the facts can be tired of the crap  after all it's your blind devotion that brings on the crap  not to mention the daft outlandish claims for your favored brand 

    I leave you to your delusional world again now .................. just remember to keep taking the happy pills  .

  Oh Jim nice shooting  and very well done. Just goes to show the bunkum spouted about "free floated barrels" 

[Swampman]

Not blind to facts.  I'm blind to the horse crap passed off as fact.  Remington makes the best firearms in the world.  Those are the facts.

[charles p]

I'm a Remington 700 fan and I plead guilty to maligning the Bushnel scope a week ago.  I take it back.

Good shooting.

[Brithunter]

Not blind to facts.  I'm blind to the horse crap passed off as fact.  Remington makes the best firearms in the world.  Those are the facts.

Only in Swampy's world not in the real one 

Hmmmm a thought just struck me  how will Swampman cope when Remington goes tits up through peddaling the stuff they are now? My guess is drugs, adminstered by a white coated person due to the straight jacket swampman would be wearing  .

No Rremingtons were used of hurt in making this post 

[Badnews Bob]

everyone knows what opinions are compared to and this is Swamp mans opinion, I like Remingtons but to say they are the best in the world is and opinion that I disagree with.

[Swampman]

Freedom group isn't going anywhere.  They are the largest gun manuf. in the world.  The current products are better than ever.  1/2 MOA out of the box is pretty common with the current 700s.

[mauser98us]

General Motors was the biggest vehicle manufacturer in the world. If memory strikes me right,they almost went out of business last year,cept being saved on the taxpayers back. Yes Swampy any business can go under. Get real.  The only business that will not go under is the business of big government.

[Swampman]

The GM deal was just a way for the owners to get richer.  They aren't out of business by a long shot.  I'd have never bought one anyway.  They've always been junk.

[Brithunter]

Freedom group isn't going anywhere.  They are the largest gun manuf. in the world.  The current products are better than ever.  1/2 MOA out of the box is pretty common with the current 700s.

Oh dear what Swampman forgot to mention that this is achievd at 10 feet from the muzzle 

Freedom group will drop Remington like a hot potatoe once they get the deal on the land it sits on. Why do you think they are moving Marlin?

 It's because the land is worth more for development than the companies turn over that's why. It's called asset stripping  .

[mauser98us]

The GM deal was just a way for the owners to get richer.  They aren't out of business by a long shot.  I'd have never bought one anyway.  They've always been junk.

 Really? That sounds rather Marxist there Swampy. I hear the same redderick out of the mouths of the leftist. Would you say the same about the management of Freedom Group or more specifically Remington? Did the GM execs make mistakes or get greedy? I'm sure. This will always happen under a capatalistic society or any society that exists. Read Animal farm my friend. As for GM, I bought my first new Chevy in 1999. Have over 250k miles on it and could not be more pleased. this is coming from a die hard Ford guy. Will I buy one now? No the fact that the Gov't owns them stops that. Ford has done well since they told the Gov't to shove it. As far as quality, seems like Toyota has had it's share of issues lately. Nuff said. One might want to examine an issue before your willing to drink the kool aid.

[mauser98us]

Freedom group isn't going anywhere.  They are the largest gun manuf. in the world.  The current products are better than ever.  1/2 MOA out of the box is pretty common with the current 700s.

Oh dear what Swampman forgot to mention that this is achievd at 10 feet from the muzzle 

Freedom group will drop Remington like a hot potatoe once they get the deal on the land it sits on. Why do you think they are moving Marlin?

 It's because the land is worth more for development than the companies turn over that's why. It's called asset stripping  .

 Is that how to get half minute of angle Brit? Thanks never thought of that

[Badnews Bob]

Sorry to burst your bubble there swampy but CZ and FN are both way larger companies than Rem and the make just as good of a product, If you think otherwise you are just living a dream.

[Swampman]

Freedom Group is moving Marlin to make more money.  That's what capitalism is all about.  Marlin was in a state that hates guns and capitalism.  PS....MOA isn't dependent on distance from the muzzle.  Nobody makes a better firearm than Remington.  Never have.....never will.

[mauser98us]

Freedom Group is moving Marlin to make more money.  That's what capitalism is all about.  Marlin was in a state that hates guns and capitalism.  PS....MOA isn't dependent on distance from the muzzle.  Nobody makes a better firearm than Remington.  Never have.....never will.

New York doesn;t like capitalism or guns  much more than Conneticut

[Swampman]

Yep that why they are paying millions to get Marlin there.   I like Freedom Group!

[robert4570]

The 99 is too heavy and unattractive to appeal.

I am a die hard Remington guy with several 700's in my safe,as well Marlins of which I own many lever guns and have always agreed with most of your posts.
However , I respectfuly and strongly disagree with you on the 99 , a classic and argueably on of the best  lever guns ever made.
Hopefully , someday you'll see the light on this one.
Cheers

[Swampman]

Still very very heavy and unattractive to put it nicely.  It also wasn't chambered in most of the better leveraction cartridges.

[robert4570]

Fair enough , we're entitled to our opinions.

[Brithunter]

Still very very heavy and unattractive to put it nicely.  It also wasn't chambered in most of the better leveraction cartridges.

Ahhh Swampman my dear friend, the Savage 99 din't have to be limited to those "Lever gun cartridges" as it was way stronger than your favored ones, it was chambered in proper high velocity "rifle" cartridges such as :-

.243, .308, .257


    Now I happen to agree that personally I don't like the look of the Savage 99 but one has to admit it's fine bit of engineering and as a friend of mine can attest it works well on two legged varmints  . He acquired an old 99 in .22 Hi-Power from an old colonial (Africa) and when getting some of the rifles history from the former owner he asked what he used it for and the answer was "Mau-Mau" yep he was there in the Mau-Mau rising and seems he used this Savage for protection against them and as he said it dropped them fine thank you!

My friend has a soft spot for these and has a fair collection of them.

[Swampman]

The thing is if you want to carry a heavy rifle chambered in boltaction rifle cartridges why not carry a boltaction?  Heavy, ugly, and not as accurate as a boltgun.  Another option better than the 99 is the Remington 760.  Savage has yet to turn out a good rifle.

The Marlin 336 is 10 times the gun, and I'd even rather carry a Model 94 Winchester than the Savage 99.

[mauser98us]

Still very very heavy and unattractive to put it nicely.  It also wasn't chambered in most of the better leveraction cartridges.

Really? I guess you don't consider the 243,7-08,308,and the 284 to be any good? The 99 was chambered in these plus the 375 Winchester and the good old 30-30 and 25-35. Looks to me like all bases covered.

[saddlebum]