Author Topic: crimping with soft bullets  (Read 381 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline zacharoo

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
crimping with soft bullets
« on: March 26, 2010, 04:51:18 PM »
I am going to start loading some Hornady 45 caliber.454 dia. 255 gr. FPRN lead bullets. I have been reading that crimping and seating at the same will size the buullet down. I am using RBS 45 LC dies. I have Lee Factory Crimp Dies but only use them for jacketed and hard cast. Is it true about using both step at same time. I have over sized throats and need a larger dia. bullet. Can I get a little advice here. I get good accuracy ( for me that is) with some RCBS 270 gr, SAA bullets I have and I crimp and size in one step but I don't use the crimp dies. I need some advice !!

Zacharoo

Offline TheSilverSlayer

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 104
Re: crimping with soft bullets
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 09:05:05 PM »
I always seat and crimp in the same step for my .38's and .357's when possible. This has worked good for me so far.  I am relativally new at loading cast, I've only done about 500 rounds so far. I had some 158gr Lee TL SWC's that I needed to seat/crimp in two steps due to how oversize they were. Most recently, I have been loading some .38 target ammo with 128 gr RNFP Berry's Hardcast bullets, seating/crimping in the same step.  These bullets have a nice crimp groove and this method has produced some beautiful ammuntion. 

Offline P.A. Myers

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (65)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1344
Re: crimping with soft bullets
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2010, 09:07:25 PM »
Those LC dies are probably .452, they may squeeze a soft lead bullet, but I doubt it. Seat a bullet with out a crimp, then pull it and measure. This will tell you if the bullets are being swedged. In any event the front of the bullet will remain as is. A 255 has plenty of bullet above the crimp. Seat and crimp in the same operation does not matter.

Do not use a tapered crimp for this, The final size die in the 'factory crimp' may be very handy in ironing out buldges but will swedge your bullet as well

Colt went to 0.452 after WW2 when SSA went back into production.  I hope this may help.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty -
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense”
 Winston Churchill

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18278
Re: crimping with soft bullets
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 02:08:20 AM »
lee factory crimp dies will size down cast bullets and because brass springs back some you can even loose case tension. The only way your going to find out if it effects your exact gun load combination is to shoot them both ways. I quit buying factory crimp dies and instead just buy an extra seating die and pull the seating stem out of it and use it in a forth stage for crimping.
blue lives matter

Offline Steve P

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1733
  • Gender: Male
Re: crimping with soft bullets
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2010, 12:56:25 PM »
Seating a bullet and trying to crimp at the same time is like trying to close the garage door as you are driving your car into the garage.  The door is going to eventually hit the car.  Park the car, then close the garage.  Seat the bullet, then crimp it.  Especially with lead bullets.  You don't want lead shavings gumming stuff up (like dies and guns etc.)

As stated by the other posters, there is a good chance that your RCBS dies are indeed for a .452 bullet.  You can see if your dies will load your ammo.  (my RCBS dies load my .454 bullets just fine.)  If you have a dial caliper, try to measure the thickness of your brass at the case mouth.  Also measure your bullet at the base to confirm .454".

 I would screw the seating stem down into your seat/crimp die and slowly seat your .454 bullet until the crimp groove just aligns with the case mouth. (Your seat/crimp die will not be screwed tight into your press and you are starting to adjust it.)  You should have a bit of a bell in your case from the belling die so it could be hard to gauge the depth of the bullet.  Don't seat it too deep.  You will still be able to adjust it deeper in another couple of steps.

Once you get the bullet seated it is time to see what the die is going to do to your ammo.  Screw the seating stem all the way up.  We don't want it pushing on the bullet right now.  Set your die about half way into your press and bring the press handle down all the way.  You should feel your case go into the die, but should feel no other pressures.  Now, with press handle all the way down, screw the die down until you feel resistance.  This should be where the die is starting to taper down toward the crimp.  As the die is tapering down, the bell in your brass should start to dimenish.  Check your ammo to see if bell is still visible.  If it is, screw die in about 1/8th to 1/4 turn and pull handle all the way down again.  Keep adjusting die down 1/8th to 1/4 turn at a time until bell is gone and case mouth appears straight. 

Check alignment of the bullet.  You want the case mouth about even with top of crimp groove.  You should be able to feel crimp groove with fingernail, but should not see the whole thing.  The top .050" or so of your case is going to be rolled into that groove.  If bullet is not deep enough, now is the time to screw seating stem back down until it touches the bullet.  Screw it down 1/8th to 1/4th of a turn at a time until your bullet is seated as referenced above.  Once bullet is properly seated, screw seating stem back up so out of the way.

With a .454 bullet in a 45LC case, you should see a bulge in your case where the base of the bullet sits.  This is normal.  Measure your ammo now.  .454 + 2 times neck dimension is optimum.  So if case is .006" thick, then .454 + .012 = .466" would be optimum.  If ammo is larger than .466" (example from before) then it is time to start adjusting the seat/crimp die to crimp.  Again, turn die down 1/8th to 1/4 turn at a time.  You should feel the pressure increasing as you go.  You can check ammo diameter periodically to see if die is slowly tapering case down.   I adjust the die down 1/8th to 1/4 turn at a time until that case mouth just goes into the crimp groove.  DONT go too far.  You will bulge the base of your brass.  You want a nice even roll that just goes all the way around the case mouth.  Set your lock ring on your seat/crimp die.  This is your final setting.  (seating stem is all the way up, right?)

Measure your ammo again.  Still .466" or more?  You should be good to go.  If you are less than .454 + 2x case mouth thickness, then dies could be swaging the bullet down.  The lead in the bullet and the brass does have some elasticity in it.  You could be just fine shooting these in your gun.  If you need to, most die makers can polish out .002" if you send them in and request it.

I have a Ruger Vacquero and load a Lyman 245 grain .454 bullet in mine.  I have RCBS dies and don't have a bit of a problem.  I just got a 300 grain mold for my 45/70.  I may try to size them down to .454 to see how they shoot in the LC.  Lots of other projects going on.

I have 44 Mag and 357 dies also.  They come with washers so you can set dies for 44 spec and 38s and use washers between die and press when loading 44 mag and 357.  This washer works perfect to put between your set crimp die and the press.  I always make a dummy round or use a previous reload to adjust my die the next time I load.  I get the 45LC seat/crimp die and the washer and screw into the press.  I grab the dummy round or reloaded round and put it in the press.  The washer keeps the crimp away from the round.  With press handle all the way down, all I have to do is screw the seating stem down until it touches the bullet and I am set for seating bullets.  When time to crimp again, screw seating stem all the way up and remove washer.  Die is already set to crimp from prior setting.

Hope this helps some. 

Steve :)
"Life is a play before an audience of One.  When your play is over, will your audience stand and applaude, or stay seated and cry?"  SP 2002