Author Topic: 300 Whisper (Read 1787 times)

Matt3357 · « **on:** March 27, 2010, 12:23:59 PM »

Anyone ever chamber a handi rifle in 300 Whisper (300-221)?

Matt

briannmilewis · « **Reply #1 on:** March 27, 2010, 12:42:28 PM »

Would have to be a stub or a rebore and rechamber of a 22 Hornet, if I remember correctly the 300 Whisper is a 221 FB case opened up to 308, correct?

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** March 27, 2010, 01:17:32 PM »

It is a patented cartridge, but I think the same results could be had using either a 30 Carbine or the 32-20 with real heavy bullets with a fast twist barre. Larry

blacksan · « **Reply #3 on:** March 27, 2010, 01:18:35 PM »

Originally the 221 Fireball necked up. The 5.56 Nato shortened and resized works better (IMO). This cartridge is fun, but is really suited more so to a suppressed platform where the kinetic energy of the heavier 30 cal slug shines even though the dramatic decrease of velocity and trajectory is to be reckoned with.

Matt3357 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 27, 2010, 01:19:49 PM »

I knew it was patented. That's why I put the 300-221 next to it. I read it is very similar but not patented and you can use 223 cases to form the brass. Just curious if anyone has done it.

Matt

Lefty Dude · « **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2010, 03:33:59 PM »

I have a TC barrel chambered for the 270 Ingram. This is a 223 case necked up to .270. I shoot a 90 gr. Sierra HP. and this is a very accurate shooter.

I would think the 221FB can be an excellent candidate for a Wild-cat 270FB.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2010, 04:19:10 PM »

Some years back in Gun Digest was a bit on (I think) the .30 Apache, 223 necked up to .308. It was a splendid performer and was popular for sillouette, seemed to work all out of proportion to its size.

26-t · « **Reply #7 on:** March 27, 2010, 06:54:56 PM »

7.62 Zoomie is my creation that is in the works .I have stubbed one up for a Handi. It is a 7.62x39mm improved to my spec's on a homemade reamer.I have fire formed some brass ,but that is as far as I am to this point. I will update as I go.26-t

Tractorsaw1 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2010, 08:05:52 AM »

26-t, tell me more about the zomie!

blacksan · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2010, 07:57:42 AM »

26-t,

Are you going with a .308 projectile vs .311? Is overall length of the cartridge along with shoulder angle altered? If so what are the specs?

Reverend Recoil · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2010, 09:49:40 AM »

How long has the 300 Whisper been around? Patents can only be enforced for twelve years. Does anybody know the patent number?

mike@nds · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:23:16 PM »

Hmmm, 125gr-220gr bullets at subsonic to supersonic velocities?

Most magnum revolver rounds will do that in a handi all day long..................................

Matt3357 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2010, 08:20:25 PM »

hmmm good point mike. I guess its a good thing the 357 mag barrel is next on my list. Plus the probability of a custom chambering in a handi is very unlikely for me until I purchase my own lathe. Which won't happen until I after graduate next spring and get a real job. Just curious if anyone had ever done it.

Matt

mike@nds · « **Reply #13 on:** March 30, 2010, 04:22:49 PM »

.300 Whisper really comes into it own in an AR platform, or maybe a CZ 527 mini Mauser.

I doubt many would do it in a Handi, rimmed rounds seem to be more popular in that power range.

But, you should gunsmith one up and do a range report for us.

Oh, and lots of pictures too.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2010, 07:41:39 AM »

I don't really know but is the round patented or is it just that the name is copyrighted? Kurt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2010, 09:29:42 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Whisper

Trademark

"Whisper" is a registered trademark of SSK Industries. In order to sidestep this branding (and/or any licensing fees required to use the "Whisper" name legally), other manufacturers tend to use different names for the same cartridge, such as ".300 warrior carbine", ".300 Fireball" or ".300-221", both based on the .221 Fireball parent case.

http://www.sskindustries.com/ssk.htm

The WHISPER® series of cartridges was developed as specific military, police, competition and recreational cartridges and has advanced the state of the art accuracy of sub-sonic suppressed weapons by more than 500%. Development of these systems continues as do other military and civilian projects.

oneshotonekill · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2010, 10:59:48 AM »

I have a winchester model 70 in 300 whisper from SSK. After I got it I asked JD Jones about the possibility of an H&R barrel in 300 whisper he just laughed and said some not so nice things about these little rifles. He is not a fan of the Handi rifles at all. He has a deal with TC to produce encore barrels under the whisper name but TC uses their standard 30 cal blanks so they are not very compatible with heavy long bullets at sub sonic velocity. You need a fast twist barrel if you plan to shoot heavy weight bullets.

Couger · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2010, 11:30:53 AM »

Whenever I hear things about "JD Jones" and his arrogance, I always feel like he needs to "shove it" where the sun don't shine!

And while I'm fairly certain I'll never ever own a .300Whisper anything, I have looked carefully at the .300/.221FB wildcat. To make the "whisper" work as adverised at sub-speeds, one needs about a 1-in-8 or 1-in-8 1/2 inch-twist barrel to stabilize (in .30-cal) heavier projectiles like the longer Sierra Matchkings. 1-10 is much too slow.

Also I think the Fireball case was chosen because of its .223 sized rim and case diameter, but also to ensure that the resulting wildcat cartridge would remain short enough to work in the already-existing AR platform/frame/receivers (yeah duhh!) Altho I also think there's nothing "magic" any cartridge casing ..... that the "casing" merely serves as the "engine" that holds the "fuel" (amount of gunpowder) that drives whatever bullet through whatever caliber of bore. (the science of physics is a constant and certainly not "magic").

In other words, why couldn't a .30Carbine casing be mated with a .30cal bullet to obtain similar velocities as the "whispers?" Or the .32-20? Or the new .327 Federal Magnum casing? Provided the correct amount of powder to do so could be contained in those "straightish" cartridges?

Also there are rounds like the .223Rem necked up to .308 and the 7.62X39 slightly necked down from .311/.312 to .30cal that prodice interesting cartridge-bullet combos - and combined with a powders like Trailboss or SR4659 or similar that might could produce subsonic velocites ......

What I recall about the .300W or .300/.221 is that it used @11.0 grains of whatever powders to achieve @1050-1100fps from @16 to 18in barrels.

And if a competent reloader/shooter was patient and safe and carefully experimented with "minimum loads" or squib load-type data, what could might be achieved?

I know this thread started by asking about the .300 Whisper, and would such a cartridge work in the Handi-platform?

Well, why not!!??

Rimmed brass is available for the .222 Remington and while expensive, could be shortened and swaged into "rimmed" .300/.221 cases! There's also the Rook cartridges, and there's also the .30 Herrett too.

One wildcat I became aware at "Steve's Pages" is one called the .300 Streaker, derived from a necked-down (and considerably) shortened .30-30 case. I believe it was originally conceived as a pistol round, but why couldn't it be adapted to a short or medium-barreled singleshot?

If a reloader "could" work with 10-12-14 grains of a [relatively] low-pressure propellent, in whatever "brass" one chooses to launch subsonic bullets, methinks the possibilities could be unlimited.

Of course my comments here are directed to extremely careful and responsible readers!

Matt3357 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2010, 01:00:28 PM »

As someone stated before, the 357mag does pretty much the same exact thing with a ready made barrel and with the new Leverevolution bullets, the ballistic coefficient is much closer to the 308 bullets than conventional pistol bullets. I just can't wait until I can get my 357 barrel. Come on tax refund. I wish I could try a used barrel on my frame before I buy it, then I would feel more comfortable buying used. Maybe I'll just buy a new one and keep it on the SB1 frame. I can't make up my mind dang it.

Matt

Kotimaki · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2010, 11:56:59 AM »

I considered building one and caught so much guff here that it was never mentioned again. I might have done one, but then again I might not have?

PM me if you want details

Couger · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2010, 04:27:58 PM »

Quote from: Kotimaki

I considered building one and caught so much guff here that it was never mentioned again. I might have done one, but then again I might not have? PM me if you want details.

Kotomaki, I'm interested in your ideas and what you've learned. Please share if you so choose. Or I'd be happy to 'chat' through emails or PM's too.

I'm not a poacher but see a niche-need for a tound such as this in a SHTF scenario for the preparedness-minded! I esp think the .30Carb or similar round pushing a 130-140grn cast-pill could make a great deer-getter for under-100yd applications.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #21 on:** April 02, 2010, 05:11:56 PM »

I had a 300 Whisper for a time it shot the 125 and the 150 gr pretty good but the 220gr did terrible that was out of a 1-8 encore all factory loads. To me the 7.62x39 handi does all that it did for a lot less cost mine is a tack driver. I think if I get the "whisper" bug again I will use my .32 H&R Mag Handi with about a 180gr bullet. Kurt

lee1954 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 02, 2010, 06:50:37 PM »

I liked the 300Whisper idea, but there is a lot of other cases that might work better in a handi -- The 7.62 X39 fits into a AR 15 clip - And has a little more power if you want to deer hunt ...... you can - From what I see set up a AR for 7,62X39......
The cost of the reloading dies in the 300 /221 are wildcat prices ...So is there any other wildcat that would work better in a handi for the same $$ setup?

My .357 handi is working out so good I'm glad I put my energy there -for now..

How about the . 30 Herrett ?
I'd still like My first wildcat -- and in a handi ! thats my 2 cents Dan

oneshotonekill · « **Reply #23 on:** April 04, 2010, 06:39:02 AM »

Quote from: PHATINJUN on April 02, 2010, 05:11:56 PM

I had a 300 Whisper for a time it shot the 125 and the 150 gr pretty good but the 220gr did terrible that was out of a 1-8 encore all factory loads. To me the 7.62x39 handi does all that it did for a lot less cost mine is a tack driver. I think if I get the "whisper" bug again I will use my .32 H&R Mag Handi with about a 180gr bullet. Kurt

Kurt,
Where did you get an 8 twist encore barrel in 300 whisper? Was it a TC barrel or custom? All the encore barrels from TC I've heard of in 300 whisper used the standard 30 cal blank which is a 10 twist. That has led to problems with heavier bullets. Most 8 twist tubes will shoot the heavy weights including 240 gr sierra MK's. Are you sure it was an 8 twist?

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #24 on:** April 04, 2010, 07:43:51 AM »

I was 16" 1-8 it was seveal yr ago now but the purpose at the time was the bottle neck case being the only one you could use at the time for IL deer pistol hunt now that hunt is not just a pistol season. I know it was 1-8 cause it went for an outrageous price at auction. There is probly a ton of talk of it from many yrs ago on the encore forum. As I said if I was gonna whisper again it would be the .32H&R mag or maybe my 7.62x39 Handi but that thing shoots 150's so well I don't think I will fool with mother nature. Kurt

gcrank1 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 04, 2010, 08:00:06 AM »

Ive thought along those lines for several years, but because I wanted to stabilize cast heavy (long, good BC) lead bullets at sub-sonic velo's for schuetzen matches. You need that same faster twist to do it. A 30carbine chambered 1:10 or so barrel would be better brass than 32-30 (thin necks) and be good thru 220gr. I think, though something around 170gr. would be fine.
That 7.62 X 39 has about the same case capacity as a 30-30 doesnt it? Good loading density and efficient. The old std for 30-30 was 1:12, and the .308 too (?) and both shoot pretty good though in sub-sonic that X 39 twist should be a bit better. Can you try loading some and report back if it works?
BTW, I used to belong to the Beloit Rifle Club, did we run into each other?

Ruskin · « **Reply #26 on:** April 04, 2010, 09:06:02 AM »

The military was going to adopt the whisper in sub-sonic. A friend, retired colonel in special forces, with contacts in fort benning said the project was dropped.

We both had whispers. His is now a 30 remington; mine is a 30-30AI.

The whisper works for some. We did not like it.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #27 on:** April 04, 2010, 12:13:08 PM »

We could have I am not a member have thought about joining for a few yrs it is just to difficult to make any meetings working 2nd shift. But I do go up to the sight in days every yr. I'm about the only one running around with a truck load of H&R single shot guns in a bunch of calibers. I have told a few guys up there about GB I work at Frito. Kurt

Curt Dawson · « **Reply #28 on:** April 05, 2010, 11:59:06 AM »

I'm with gcrank. A 30 carbine with a 1 in 10" twist barrel should be nice with some of the 155gr.-175gr. match bullets.