Contender question

[shooter]

Sorry ,new to T/C's and full of questions.If i have a scope mounted on both my contender rifle barrel and pistol barrel and switch back and forth between the two using the same frame,in theory the scopes will still be sighted in,correct ? I'm thinking about buying a rifle barrel and taking both on a bear hunt .
Shooter

[mcwoodduck]

I have not had any problems with my 2- 223 barrels.
one a 14" pistol and the other a 16.25 rifle.  I make sure the screws are the same tightness everytime.

[Grumulkin]

If you are VERY lucky they might be sighted in correctly but chances are they won't be.

Many times the same load with bullets of the same weight but of different brands will print in different areas on paper.  It's pretty much a given that if the cartridge is different the point of impact will be different.  Also, you would be best served with an extended eye relief scope on the pistol barrel (i.e., handgun scope) and a rifle scope on the rifle barrel.  If you try to use a rifle scope on anything but a very low recoiling handgun, you will have a bloody eyebrow and may be in need of stitches.

[Hopalong7]

     I'm not sure what you're asking.  Are we talking two different barrels, each with it's own scope mounted and sighted in, and just switching a single frame between them.  If so, no problem.  Or...if we're talking one scope and two barrels and switching the scope from barrel to barrel, then you'd have to sight it in each switch.  Even then, if you keep up with the adjustments, and reverse them when appropriate you can come fairly close.
Walt 

[skb2706]

In theory no....you are asking if you switch a scope between two barrels "will it be sighted in". The odds are not in your favor. As was mentioned, although it can be done using a rifle scope on a pistol frame is tricky. I have done it and it is very hard to get used to, requires low recoiling rounds and I would suggest you have someone watch the gun for you during a few trial attempts.

[shooter]

yes,im talking two complete set-ups,just sharing the action/frame.Two diff scopes,two diff sets of stocks etc...just turn it say from a pistol into a rifle and have it still zeroed for each scope swapping back and forth.
Shooter

[Keith L]

What you are suggesting is against the law, but you apparently know better.

I frequently swap pistol barrels on my pistol frames, and rifle barrels on my rifle frames.  They hold zero when switched. 

[shooter]

Whats wrong with some of you folks  ???Alot of innuendo's (spell check please) here.If i knew it was illegal i wouldnt ask.I still think you are misunderstanding me.I mean thats what T/C's ad's are all about.IT changes from a pistol to a rifle to a shotgun to a muzzle loader and back again.Read what i wrote.I am not suggesting taking my 12 in 44 mag barrel and throwing it on my rifle stock ! I am talking about using my registered pistol frame as a 44 mag pistol with its 12 inch barrel and its own scope and forearm/grip for a morning hunt then taking it apart and using the frame on a 23 inch 35rem barrel with its own rifle stock and forearm and its own scope on an afternoon hunt and not having to re-sight it in.Of course the original question was,if both barrel/stock/scope set-ups were sighted in,would they remain true when i swapped the frame between set-ups and in theory they should since the scopes are mated to the barrels ,not the frame.See hopalong7's correct response. Hope this helps.
shooter

[sweetwyominghome]

It's likely to be close but not perfect as there are enough variables to throw a glitch into the equation. But it should be close enough that one shot at 100 yards would tell you just what minor adjustment you need to make. A 2nd shot should confirm it.

As to the "legality" issue, a few folks get very touchy and standoffish any time the words rifle, pistol and TC are mentioned in the same breath, no matter what the situation may be.

The best thing to do is just smile, let them have their say and move on to the next topic.

[shooter]

I'm just going by the little that i know from folks here in NY state that hunt with them including one of my brothers and every worker in 3 different gun shops here in my area.Guess someone got my hackles raised.
Sorry if i offended anyone here.
Shooter

[Ladobe]

It just rolls and rolls around here, including uphill.   

Like Walt said, 2 barrels each with their own scopes sighted in that are changed back and forth on the same frame is NO PROBLEM AT ALL... they will both still be sighted in close enough.   Taking a barrel off and reinstalling it on the same frame doesn't change the lockup any more than opening the action to load it for every shot does.   

As for the other issues, sweetwyominghome said it pretty good: "The best thing to do is just smile, let them have their say and move on to the next topic."

'Cept I'd add to the end: ...and do what you believe in with your own gear.      

[jpred1]

I swap my hunting (scoped) barrel out ever year with a 45/410 for summer play. Even shot a few doves last year with it. Anyway when I reinstall the scoped barrel it has always been dead on, just as it was before removed.Make sure you have really good mounts and rings,which you need anyway for a high recoil pistol and the slight jarring from removing the pin will not effect the sight in  .

[sk330lc]

What you are suggesting is against the law, but you apparently know better.

I frequently swap pistol barrels on my pistol frames, and rifle barrels on my rifle frames.  They hold zero when switched.  

Keith L. is Right!      I could state what the law says.   But it won't change your Mind.  

[shooter]

I read what the justices said 5-4 on that 1992 case and that is not what the BATF are telling people.As far as im concerned as long as i dont go and put a barrel less than 16 inches on a shoulder stock then You'll be ok.Thats my interpretation as well as the Supreme courts and T/C themselves.If you have the parts to make a pistol and rifle the Govt said you could make a legal rifle,a legal pistol or a illegal short rifle with a barrel less than 16inches with a rifle stock.The justices said the parts are sold to make the 1st two legal guns and the govt cant assume that since a 3rd illegal option is avail that a gunowner would put it together in that config.The govt had to prove intent ,which they didnt.The justices found 5-4 in the favor of T/C.They went on to say that even though you have the parts and capability to make the illegal short rifle that doesnt mean that you would.The govt cant prove intent and lost the case.Now,the BATF is wrongly telling people their interpretation of the law which DOES NOT jive with the 1992 Supreme Courts Decision.Sure you might get arrested if you were standing next to a BATF agent and did the pistol to rifle conversion right in front of them (tauntingly) but you would win because of the Suprem courts ruling....I think the NRA and others would come to your aid in court to settle this once and for all.
My two cents.
Shooter

[Keith L]

Go ahead Shooter.  The law needs another court case to eliminate any gray areas, and it may as well be you.  I choose not to have that kind of hassle in my life.  But it is your gun, your life, and you need to do what you have to do.  And by the way, putting all this out in the public on the web makes as much sense as changing over a gun in front of an officer.

Have a great life.

[sk330lc]

 That case was for contender KITS.     T/C no longer sells kits.   They sell parts.  I'm sure someone could give you a date they stopped making the kits.
If you happen to have one of the origanal contender kits.  Then your Golden!
    The BATF  says if it was bought as a rifle it *Must stay a Rifle.*  If it was Bought as a Pistol it can be changed to a Rifle or long gun , *But must stay a rifle or long gun*.   It can't be changed Back.
   I know this because I had my Lawyer check it out for me.   Cost me $75     I thought that was cheap.
We are trying to help you stay out of trouble. Not anger or make you mad.
Best of luck and god speed.
 

[shooter]

Thanks keith...maybe someone here can drop a dime on me !
Shooter

[shooter]

I tell you what...if this was all out in the light of day where it belongs,perhaps people like me thinking of getting into the T/C community would stay away altogether.I did not have one person out of perhaps a dozen (including my brother ) who said anything to me about this mess ! I think it should be the obligation of T/C and the gun Dealers to inform the public about all this Crap before they buy a T/C.I also think it should be mandatory for forums like these that we depend on for information to make the member read a disclaimer informing them about what they can/cannot do with a T/C rifle/pistol before they can log onto any of the T/C forums.I'm sure the webmaster doesnt want to hear this but its my 2 cents for what its worth.I'm sorry i ever got involved in this nonsense called T/C versitility !
Shooter

[shooter]

One last time to try to clarify.I bought a G2 12 inch 44 mag barrel (and registered it as a pistol) , a pistol forearm,a pistol grip, a rifle forearm and a rifle stock all at the same time....what did i buy ? A rifle or a pistol ?
Clarify this then i'll leave and stop beating a dead horse.
shooter

[Keith L]

Assuming you bought it new, a G2 shipped from the factory with a pistol grip and a pistol forearm is a pistol.  I understand a call to TC can clarify this.  If it was shipped with a rifle stock it is a rifle.  You have the ability to change the pistol to a rifle, but the latest from BATF says once converted it has to stay that way or you have to pay to switch it back. 

It has been a long, long time since TC advertised switching back and forth.  I got into Contenders when they were all pistols (at least I don't remember any rifles).  And since all the decisions and legal opinions I have select frames for pistols and for rifles.

As far as dropping the dime on you, I bet BATF has their people watching all gun web sites, so that is already done.  And it is not up to sites like this to educate the world, but I was trying to keep you out of jail.  Now it is up to you to decide how to handle the information.

[DEACONLLB]

Lets say for the sake of this discussion that I go to a gun show and there I find a very nice contender pistol, price is good and I buy it. what I dont know and the ffl dealer that is selling it to me does not know is that someone before the dealer got it in trade had bought it as a rifle and converted it to a pistol and when I buy it the ffl dealer fills out the paper work as a short gun. so now where does that leave us? It is something to think about as these things are switched back and forth so much that most do not know what they started life as. Of all that I own I know what two starter or was sold as. We have a number of discussions on this and I do understand the law and I do know the ATF is not easy to deal with.

Deaconllb

[sk330lc]

It's The selling FFL responsibility to be sure what he is selling .   If he does not know, all he has to do is call T/C.  To me it's all a stupid thing.

[shooter]

All i can say is "wow".I will keep my registered pistol set-up and will sell the G2 forearm and rifle stock....i've had it with this B.S.
Shooter

[shooter]

As Larry the cable guys says " Good Lord,i'd like to apologize"...
I've finally spent the time to read all the related posts going all the way back to 2007 i think.No wonder Keith seems a little "short" with people sometimes regarding this issue.I had no idea of the history on this topic here at GBO.It's alot of mud to wade through.I for one may not agree with the BATF but i "see" it.
For me,i'll stick with the pistol only.Next time i talk to my NRA rep i'll hit him over the head with this nonsense and demand their legal council look into this.....lol
Yea ,right.Keep fighting the good fight !
Shooter

[Keith L]

For any of us the more you shoot the Contenders the more barrels and frames you want, so it becomes easy to have frames for rifles and frames for pistols.  I have six frames and have lost count of barrels at this point, and the senseless law is not in the way any more.

Just another reason to remember that it is a mistake to look for logic and reason in laws.

[jpred1]

Ive read all these post and still have a few ?s.If anyone cares to help me understand. 1st,   Who or why would find out the difference? 2nd I see a lot of people speaking about  how it is registered, are we supposed to register all our guns? Are far as I know mine arent.I ask my dealer about this concerning a TC frame I purchased a few years ago and on the paperwork that he has it just says frame with a serial #.Sorry to be so dumb about all this but he told me the gun he just done a transfer for me today , that it is unregistered.He told me to register the gun ,I would need to set up appointment with police and have it registered in my name. I had thought when any current gun was purchashed it was automatically sent to a data base and the gov. would know owner of said gun.This is in Bama.My 1st TC pistol was stolen from me and I had a police report filed thinking it could be traced back to me?

[jpred1]

Bump for some insight.

[TRM-1]

http://www.atf.gov/


 The bureau of alchol, tobacco, firearms and explosives is the who. When you buy a firearm from a FFL dealer he has to do a background check on you when you purchase it. when he does this paperwork he has to list the firearm as a pistol or rifle or shotgun and I am may be wrong but I believe a frame can be listed as a frame. Now if the gun was involved in a crime or was checked by the police or some other law enforcement agency they would track that gun down by the serial number and by the FFL transfers. So if you purchased a contender frame and the FFL dealer marked it as a rifle or long gun and then you was checked out by the atf or the local police with it configured as a pistol then I would say you would be trouble. Some say if it was listed as a pistol and you have it configured as a rifle you are okay, But as some have wrote the ATF and have gotton letters back to say otherwise.


http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,184325.0.html


As for registered some areas require handguns to be registered with the local authorities.


Now I am no expert by no means and I am no lawyer either. I just tried to help you out with the little info I think is correct if someone else has any to add or to correct me Please do.

[TRM-1]

I was typing as you bumped!
By the way nice kitty! does he play well with the pooch?

[jpred1]

Ok, thanks. I just done a lil studying, In Alabama you do not have to register any gun, so a FTF sale from individual is almost  the same as a FFL transfer, the FFL transfer only calls in to make sure you can purchase a firearm( felonys, or other reasons preventing ownership.).Registration not required at all.I just wanted to make sure I havent been breaking the law for over 20 years. In reality, not much law in Alabama.Which is good and bad.Bad for those whose elect not to use there right to bear firearms and some bad guy has one. The little cat is just a pic a buddy sent me, origin unknown. But still a eye opening pic, considering someone is hunting that feeder.