Concealed Carry means Concealed Carry

[jamaldog87]

well i was up in the library last week waiting on a computer and i see this guy in pants and flip flops. he has what looks like a j frame gun in a ankle holster all out and you can see it. he leaves and i see he gun moveing up and down in that ankle holster. I see many people with CCW and you can see them. It give people that carry a bad name when they do that.

[SHOOTALL]

Here if you show or print you lose your permit to tote . Also cops aren't as viligent sometimes when off duty . Be sure it wasn't a cop before calling foul .

[Mike in Virginia]

My useless opinion is that you don't let the public see your weapon.  Nothing good can come from that.  Reasons that it happens are many:  stupidity, carelessness, ego.  I think we have a responsibility to keep them hidden.  Another forum here concerns open carry, which (IMO) is always unwarranted if one is among people.  You might have a hunting rig or a range holster that is "open carry," but no other scenario makes sense.  I recently read a thread wherein a person opted to remove his jacket and expose his firearm because he was in a restaurant that served alcohol, and concealed carry was prohibited, but open carry was lawful.  He wanted to be "legal," so he displayed his weapon. 

I don't get that.  It's asking for questions and 911 calls.  If I found myself in that situation, I'd chose to leave the gun in the car, or keep my secrets to myself. 

We are not cowboys.  We are responsible adults, and we have no realistic reason to display firearms in public.   

[SHOOTALL]

Like cowboys we are allowed to carry open in Va. with exception to certian cities with populations over a certian number . It is a right we have . If someone does not know this and calls 911 they should pay for the call as it is a nussance call ( ignorance of the law is no excuse) . The fact the weapon is open to be seen is fine as it showes the owner is complying with the law. People should realize the citizen toting the gun is in a way protecting all as maybe a bad guy seeing it will go elsewhere . Also the guy with the gun sets himself up as a target but is willing to do so to protect both himself and others . I live in a city often said to be more dangerous than the old west ( also a city that is high enough in population that open carry is not allowed unless nessary for your job) . Long before the right to carry was put in place some police officers turned a blind eye to those carrying in bad areas . One told me to get a gun once . He said don't come back without one , gave me his name and badge # and told me if ever ask about the gun have the officer contact him. Several others did the same to co workers .
 

[Graybeard]

Alabama is an open carry state so supposedly at least it is completely legal to wear it openly anywhere it would be legal to wear it concealed. Concealed carry requires a permit but all that requires is to ask the local Sherriff for it and if you have no criminal record then it's yours.

The one legal hitch to open carry so they seem to say is that once you put it into your vehicle it's concealed and therefore not legal but I think that in reality putting it openly on the seat or somwhere that it can be seen if stopped makes it legal to carry in vehicle. Dunno.

I tend to agree with the idea of keeping it as well hidden as possible but since I have the permit for that and have had for 44 years and can legally carry openly as well I don't tend to get all concerned over it. Still my carry methods keep it pretty well concealed so it's unlikely anyone would have a clue I have it yet make it readily available if needed. I don't think I'd feel as comfortable these days wearing it out like the cowboys did tho in the past when in my 20s that was done commonly and even when walking around town. Still times today and times then are far far different.

[jamaldog87]

if it was up to me i would have open carry everywhere that you can Concealed Carry. But i not in charge. people these days fear guns like there going to eat your kids or something   But even were legal ( was told this and i also saw the same in G&A) they still can charge you with a crime.  The reason i hear was it was because it was a safety thing. If people saw a man with a gun they would start running and could hurt themselfs or others, also i would not want to have a cop point a 12ga at me(it happen before) for doing something that i have the right to.

[PA-Joe]

Historically speaking Bad Guys Conceal their weapons and Good Guys always Open Carry. That is why Open Carry is legal in most states and why states started to license concealed carriers. It ain't the other way around guys! How many thugs that you know open carry?

[SHOOTALL]

 

[Mike in Virginia]

Lots of actions are legal, but still stupid.  Whoever totes a visible firearm in public is asking for trouble.  "It's legal and it's my right," won't stop the trouble.  People that carry openly have serious ego problems.  They want to be noticed.  They like the shock factor.  They think it makes them special.  That's not my opinion; it's just plain truth.  Wearing a gun outside your clothes in today's society is childish at best.  You won't do it often without someone taking offense and calling the cops.  The fact that you're "legaL" won't stop the cops from responding.  I cannot understand why someone would want to draw attention to themselves like that.   

[williamlayton]

I suspect that Texas has the toughest laws on this subject I have encountered.
NOW, wheather or not the boys want to press the issue is entirely regional--and man to man.
Texas says you can't print--that is called brandishing--if the boys want to go that far.
I never have had a problem and that includes the days when you could not carry legally--but many of us did anyway.
I can wear a tee and shorts and never print a Sig P220 and if you can't print that--everything else is a piece of cake.
Now, I suspect that most of the boys can spot a carrier---I know that I can, on folks that just don't know how. I think the harder you try and conceal, sometimes, the more you give it away.
I know that folks that use scabbards are the easiest too spot. The scabbard prints.
Now I won't get into my own usual tirade but I will say--"Scabbards---we don't need no steenkin scabbards."
 
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

So Mike you decribing the police , armoured car workers , bank guards , and many more or what ? Do all of them have ego problems or just want access to their weapon faster ? Or maybe it tells the bad guys we are armed and ready to defend ourselves .
 Seems you are saying that regular citizens are not worthy of legal open carry , why is that ? You seem to negate the self defense factor ie; crooks don't attack those that look like they can protect themselves . What i take from what you say is a person that may otherwise look like a target is stupid to wear his gun open . In reality I feel you are saying the fellow should have to face attack when in fact if the crook knew he was armed he would pass .
 And what do you mean in todays society its childest ? And no it won't keep the cops from responding , SO WHAT ?
 Its like every other right we have if we don't use it we stand to lose it which is what the anti gun crowd wants .
 I would say its childest , stupid and any other negative word for a supporter of gun rights and freedom to suggest we not carry in any legal fashion .
 And to be sure its not just plain truth its your opinion just like what i have posted is mine . Though in this case law is on my side .

[williamlayton]

YUP!
Blessings

[rparsons934]

So Mike you decribing the police , armoured car workers , bank guards , and many more or what ? Do all of them have ego problems or just want access to their weapon faster ? Or maybe it tells the bad guys we are armed and ready to defend ourselves .
 Seems you are saying that regular citizens are not worthy of legal open carry , why is that ? You seem to negate the self defense factor ie; crooks don't attack those that look like they can protect themselves . What i take from what you say is a person that may otherwise look like a target is stupid to wear his gun open . In reality I feel you are saying the fellow should have to face attack when in fact if the crook knew he was armed he would pass .
 And what do you mean in todays society its childest ? And no it won't keep the cops from responding , SO WHAT ?
 Its like every other right we have if we don't use it we stand to lose it which is what the anti gun crowd wants .
 I would say its childest , stupid and any other negative word for a supporter of gun rights and freedom to suggest we not carry in any legal fashion .
 And to be sure its not just plain truth its your opinion just like what i have posted is mine . Though in this case law is on my side .

I could not agree more. I live in ohio. Open carry is legal and so is printing. I think we should exersice our rights. I also think that people should get used to the fact of guns as it is our right.

[Mike in Virginia]

No, of course I'm not referring to professionals who carry guns openly.  You've bent what I said to suit your opinion.  You are looking for a good reason for citizens to carry openly, and the only place you'll find that reason is in your mind.  So what if the cops are called, you asked.  You can't be that silly.  Cops have better things to do than respond to people showing off.  You tell me why you do it.  Open carry is such a freakish thing to do, when it does happen, people panic.  Open carry proponents are so hung up on having their "rights," they'll go to that extreme length to make the statement.  I'd guess that the few who brag they carry their guns outside their clothes to the mall and the grocery store and the feed store and to the city park and to the pet store, don't do that at all.  They just like to say they do.  Maybe a few weirdos actually do it for the attention and the ruckus it creates, but I don't see them in VA nor anywhere else I've ever been.  If you simply must carry a gun for the public to see, get hired as a guard or a cop, though I doubt any agency would hire a person with that particular issue.  Grow up and get real.       

[Lee Robinson]

If more people carried openly, it wouldn't be strange or attention gathering. It would just be another person. That said, I concell carry, but I don't worry if I should print or "reveal" when I bend over or sit down. If I know it is showing, I will cover it, but I don't think about "checking my shirt" every 15 seconds. I think people should take our 2nd ammendment rights more seriously.

[rparsons934]

Mike I dont open carry unless its in my shoulder holster camping or something in the woods. That being said I do not have a problem with people open carrying. It is under law a leagal action defined by our second amendment. You can not apreciate one part of the law and not the other. When we start to go against part of the law that is when you leave it subject to change wich may not go your way.

[williamlayton]

I am no Rambo---never have been.
I have seen open carry at events and it did not bother me---except I sorely wanted too look at some of those Roscoe's up close.
I have no problem with open carry--it is not offensive too me.
If you wear a jacket or a shirt that is hanging out it surely will be concealed.
The boys wear open and concealed and I am not offended or afraid of them---and these boys are just people.
Why do we put cops of all stripes in a special catagory of people? Heck one lives next too me and two behind me---they mow their yards just as I do, have arguements with their wives, drink beer, ride bikes, pay bills, have kids, buy cars and trucks.
Mike, and really, no disrespect ment--I don't think you think things thru too the logical conclusions.
Folks are folks---some accountants, engineers, work in refineries and are cops, medics and all sorts of stuff that keeps this society revolving.
A gun does not define a person---a person defines hisownself.
Blessings

[rparsons934]

well said William

[slim rem 7]

i have found that a black hawk in pants on my hip ,,totally hides my 4 inch 38 special..
just a long t shirt is all thats necessary to totally conceal it..
 now i do put one of the tiny super magnets[got about four left].. in the bottum of my holster..slim

ps.. this magnate is so strong that if you get some skin between two ofem ..you gonna end up with a blood blister..just enough to keep the 38 in the holster if i happen to have to get real active,real fast..

[Mike in Virginia]

Well stated, William.  I believe you to be an honest man with the best of intentions, but my position on open carry differs from yours.   

Concerning cops, I love them.  They are my brothers.  They are the unrelenting adhesive that holds us together as Americans.  I was one for 32 years.  I KNOW how a police officer views a citizen carrying a weapon in plain view.  He sees them as potentially dangerous and unhinged, moreso than those who carry concealed.  He will approach an obviously armed citizen on high alert, ready to kill him.  That's not his fault.  I'm not saying he's not always ready to shoot, but if he knows for sure someone has a gun, and the individual is brazen enough to wear it at a location far removed from recreational shooting, the officer's focus  is on protecting himself from someone who has stepped out of the norm into his own fantasy.  The cop has encountered thousands of people, and he can identify at a glance those who are outside reality, those that are suffering from an internal issue, real or imagined.

Have you noticed that no one here as admitted to carrying openly except on a restricted basis?  They certainly carry concealed to places they would never carry openly.  Our nation is mobile.  Seldom do we spend all week at home.  Most travel daily.  They do not wear their rigs for the public to view.  You must admit that such action is way the hell out of the ordinary.  If it's unusual (do we agree on that?), then it is viewed as an element of catastrophe.  Add other elements, and it moves closer to castrophe in the minds of observers.

If you really believe I don't think things through to a logical conclusion, what must you think of people who wear their guns openly in public places?  Now there you can see a man whose logic has completely abandoned him.     

William, because of the respect you hold on this forum, I'd like your honest opinion of a man who wears a gun outside his clothes to Wal-Mart, or to his bank, or to work, or to a picnic?       

[jimster]

My opinion is it would depend on where you are. There are places in the U.S. where more people carry in the open, and some places where you don't see it. 

My opinion on police officers as seeing people open carry as "potentially dangerous and unhinged,", also depends on the police officer, and the surroundings.   

Personally, I prefer concealed carry because I like the thought of nobody knowing I have one, which could be to my advantage in certain cases where I would need it.  I don't like to attract attention to myself either, but I'm living where not many carry open, and very many carry concealed.  I can sit next to a police officer at the local coffee shop (and have a few times)...he has no idea I am armed, which is fine with me as well.  If he runs my license plate, he will know then.

I did see a guy have one on in the open in public a year or so ago, in a small town by us, he was walking down the sidewalk (it's legal to carry open here if there is no local ordinance and no concealed license)...and all I was trying to do was see what kind he had cause I like to look at guns, I was not worried at all about him being unhinged, but that is just me...some cops are like me, some are not...they are all different I think, with different surroundings. 

[SHOOTALL]

Wild Mike , I didn't bend anything . Then i see cops as citizens like the rest of us not above or better . You see there would not be enough cops if the rest of us didn't support them .
 Now I,m not a cop but have several friends who are some in there 60's , some in trheir 20's and several inbetween . And to a man they support open carry . The oldest said the gun in a holster i can see dosen't bother me its the one i can't see and have no warning that scares me .
 In this day and time a cop approching someone is most likely on high alert because of the c-carry anyway ! And if I were a cop it would offend me to hear someone state that if i shot someone because they were obeying the law was their fault . A cop-xcop would sting even worst . Hey guy these are trained pro's or are the Barny of Mayberry types ? What a cut to your brothers .
 And no carrying a gun open is not out of the norm in many places , I got to ask where were you a cop ?
Brazen enough , No not really how about concerned enough to do so . I at one time ansewered burglar alarm calls where i worked . All we at night and the right to carry was not yet a reality . Sooo i wore my mod 29 on my hip as the law allowed . Met the cops at the business and since i knew where the light switches were led the way in with gun in hand . I was lucky only once was there people in the building . I worked other areas where a gun was a needed tool . Guess we will have to agree to disagree .

[Mike in Virginia]

I reckon so, shootall.  This thread went a little crazy.  I keep going back to the fellow who opened it.  I thought what he said made sense. 

I saw a fellow one time wear his western rig and single-action into a hardware store.  That was in a small town in Colorado.  He looked like a ranch hand, and I didn't think much about that.  Tradition, and all that.   

Another time here in VA, an idiot wearing a similar rig on the Interstate, stopped his vehicle behind my marked police car and ran toward me.  It turned out okay, because I had time to roll out and line up my sights.  He simply wanted to report an accident, but it proved something to me about idiots and guns. 

I never did get an answer about who carrys there weapon exposed all the time, so I'm going to stop asking.  The big talkers of open carry simply don't do it.  The two incidents I mentioned are the only two I've ever encountered apart from sporting situations.  But I suppose it's fun to say you do, so go ahead.  Say you go to the grocery store and funeral homes and the pancake house with your gun exposed, and say it's your legal right, and then have some guts and actually do it.

Also, this is a place to discuss CONCEALED CARRY AND CONCEALED CARRY GUNS.   Another forum you might want to look at here at Graybeards concerns open carry.  I visited that site one time.  I discovered quickly I didn't have anything in common with the posters there. 

 

[Mike in Virginia]

Oops. I am incorrect about the open carry site being part of Greybeard's.   It's somewhere else that I saw it.  To find it, just Google "odd things to do with your gun."

[bubbinator]

I am an absolute supporter of our 2nd amendment rights, a gun carrying LEO since age 17 in the USAF and now retired with over 42 yrs. in military and Civilian/State law Enforcement.  As a USAF SPI, I carried a 1911 and a S&W M36 for yrs. w/o incident (or authorization and was blessed with a few commanders who believed in " if you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question").  As a State Police Officer, I carried openly and under cover, on and off duty.  A police officer just knows, after years of experience, who is like and Almond Joy.  Some are nuts/ Some are Not!  I really believe that some of the people who persist in carrying openly "just because they can" hurt the cause.  If you look like an armed idiot in public-people will think you are an armed idiot and react accordingly.  Assuming the burden to bear the means to terminate another humans life with 3 pounds of trigger pull is not something to be taken lightly and carries a huge responsibility. A hunter with a side arm is one thing, some SWAT wannabe in Walmart with a Glock in a tactical rig and black BDUs may be his "right", but it doesn't help the cause.

[SHOOTALL]

His gun was holstered Mike why did you draw down on him ?
 I guess we all see why you feel the way you do now , its easier to control others .

[jimster]

I carry concealed because I don't want anyone to know I have one, including the police...what people don't know won't hurt me one bit.

That being said, if I did live in a place where lot's of people carried openly, it would be more normal to everyone.  We all are different, police officers all completely different too, nobody thinks the same.
There are some wingnuts out there that don't mind attracting attention to themselves and want to wear them in the open when nobody else does...guess if the State see's fit they can change the law, otherwise there is not much anyone can do about it.  There are also some good people that would rather wear them on the outside too, maybe if more people did it, it would not be such a big deal, it certainly does not scare me the few times I have seen a person with it on the outside here.  I am also armed 99 percent of the time, but nobody knows. I like it that way.
I notice the police in these parts are all different, some think nobody but them should have a gun (very few, but some), some would rather actually see them, because they know lot's of people are packing, they just don't know who...and some don't care either way, they know darn well Michigan is a gun State and know the laws. They deal with it.
That being said....I would not run at a cop with a gun on my hip in the open either.
To the other side of that, anyone points a gun at me, they best use it, including a cop, because I don't like guns pointed at me...unless I do something dumb,...in which case I would expect it.  I'm lucky enough to live in a state where civilians can defend themselves from ANY threats, no matter what or who. 
The police do not have it quite that good in this state...they should, but they get scrutinized a whole lot more than we do in simple self defense cases. That's a shame. Like Bubbinator says...you can pretty much tell a nut anyways.
 

[AtlLaw]

I carry most of the time.  But I would almost rather not carry, and I'm paranoid, then carry open.  I have spent a lot of time trying to find a comfortable and accessable means of carrying conceiled.

To me, open carry makes me appear as either "strange" to non-gun people, or targets to people that are the reason I am carrying in the first place!  Either way, In metro Atlanta it would draw unwanted attention to me.

There was a fellow I knew who, after he retired from the Atl. PD, took to wearing, all the time, 1950's TV style cowboy clothes and carrying 2 nickle plated SAA's in a double gun belt.     'course, Leonard was a mite strange before he retired!     Now if he'd a dressed like Josie Wales... 

The only time I am comfortable openly carrying is when I'm in south Jawja durin hunting season.   But heck, everybody else is carrying to!   

[J'hawker]

I've seen a lot of the concealed carry groups out here in California and have had mixed feelings about them.  I understand they are trying to preserve a "right" under the law, but I fear the only think they will accomplish is getting the law changed to outlaw open carry.  Common sense should tell them that there are times and places to exercise such rights.  I don't see a problem open carrying on hiking trails, at campgrounds, or in rural areas, but parading around the boardwalk at Pacific Beach won't earn many brownie points with John Q. Public.

I'd just as soon nobody knew if I was carrying, permit or not.

[williamlayton]

Mike
If you as a police officer approach a person who is carrying open and holstered in such a fashion what are you doing in the business?
Your job is one that requires restraint and good thinking. If the person has his had on the weapon that changes things--if he is attempting too draw it that escalates to another level.
I can understand being aware of a holstered weapon but I would be wary of the one I can't see, more.
Most/many/more than realized people, today, are carrying---legally or illegally. The same as it has always been.
I do not approach anybody with preconcieved thoughts---life is too short, besides, that is a dangerous way to do your business--well, dangerous too the public.
Blessings