Author Topic: Concealed Carry means Concealed Carry (Read 6664 times)

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #30 on:** April 06, 2010, 06:08:43 PM »

Williamlayton, sir, with respect, you are dead wrong. An armed person on the steet is an alarm signal. There's nothing preconceived about an officer's thoughts in that situation, unless it's that he already knows such acts are out of the ordinary, so he should therefore take precautions and take them quickly.

shootall, if someone with an exposed firearm was running directly at a cop, any reasonable officer would feel threatened, and the courts would justify killing the idiot. Numerous "good shootings" have occurred because the officer simply saw a flash of metal, or a hand going out of sight inside clothing. Beyond that, it's clear you've never been there. It's plain you've had no training, much less experience, in how to daily keep yourself alive. It's obvious you've not had to face deadly threats routinely. Having heard your rhetoric, I'm convinced that if you ever have to defend yourself, you won't. You'll expire wondering why your right to carry openly didn't save you.

williamlayton · « **Reply #31 on:** April 07, 2010, 01:37:10 AM »

Are you saying that any person running at anyone is less threatening just because there is no weapon visible?
Anthing I can see is less threatening that the unknown.
Walking into a room where there are visible weapons doesn't bother me.
In ca battle situation you will always react differently. In a street situation--you, the officer--are at a far greater danger when weapons are not visible.
You are also at far greater danger--liability wise.
I don't know wher you cop but, here, a cop must use constraint that forces a risk too hisownself---in other words, he better be right. It is a human being that he shot, not a target.
No difference with a civilian. No one can go Rambo---there is always paperwork and judgement.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #32 on:** April 07, 2010, 02:28:25 AM »

Mike , you state I have never been there . I guess you say this to justify your position but truth is I have . In fact I have been on site when people were shot 3 different times . I have had to defend myself from people twice with a knife and once with a gun . Also twice my home was broken into while I was home. I have also been in what might be considered "tight " situations at work over the years . On one occasion I had the pleasure of ducking machine gun fire in down town Richmond, a real experince to say the least .
I would find it hard to believe anything short of a kangaroo court would not find a jumpy cop with a disregard for rules of engaugement anything but guilty of shooting someone for no other reason other than having a legal holstered gun.
I find your statement of shooting the guy running at you odd in that you have repeted it several times but not once said you would order the guy to stop first just draw and fire . I hope you never have to do such as what you have stated here would sure cook your goose in court if it ever came up and your post were used to show your mind set .

AtlLaw · « **Reply #33 on:** April 07, 2010, 07:13:40 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on April 07, 2010, 02:28:25 AM

what you have stated here would sure cook your goose in court

+1

A "holstered" gun alone, by itself, with no other factors, is not threatening. Except to commie liberal wimmins and girly men of course!

A lot more has to transpire before the use or threat of the use of deadly force is authorized; or, I think, would be considered reasonable in the eyes of a jury.

But we weren't there. Probably was more then what he stated here... $:-\$

jimster · « **Reply #34 on:** April 07, 2010, 10:22:28 AM »

I think basically if it's legal to carry open in a State, that's pretty much the end of it, doesn't matter what some police might think, or anyone else, it's legal.
That should not include harassment or grilling someone with a lot of questions from police, if they wish to be personally on high alert, fine...keep it to themselves. People don't need to be harassed in any way shape or form for doing something legal in their State. About 20 years ago a buddy of mine was carrying open through a neighborhood he lived in, to get to open country to go for his walk. He did this sometimes. Neighbor lady called the police, the police came to her house and brought her the State gun laws so she would know it's legal. The way it should be. None of us should have to worry about making a police officer feel secure if we are legal and not doing anything wrong. It's just one more thing on our backs that does not belong there. I do want to help them feel secure if I get pulled over in a traffic stop, but that is different to me than walking around town minding my own business.
The law is the law, and the police should be the first ones to know it, and not challenge it by harassment. Criminals don't carry theirs in the open, nor do they have permits to carry concealed like I do.

If a police officer see's a good set of stag grips on an open carry pistol, the only question he should have is who made em...that makes for good public relations.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #35 on:** April 07, 2010, 10:25:56 AM »

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 08, 2010, 03:25:35 AM »

it just depends on what area you from..
i got tired of folks getting right quiet when i walked in a little store ,in this area..im a talker an make conversation most anywhere i go..
i carried concealed ,long before i had a ccp.. never had to kill a bg yet..slim
ps people use to laugh an say tony ,aint nobody gonna try to mug you, but i am looking more an more vulnerable,,so the day may come ,due to that..

Sensai · « **Reply #37 on:** April 08, 2010, 04:30:51 AM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on April 05, 2010, 01:27:21 PM

IAnother time here in VA, an idiot wearing a similar rig on the Interstate, stopped his vehicle behind my marked police car and ran toward me. It turned out okay, because I had time to roll out and line up my sights. He simply wanted to report an accident, but it proved something to me about idiots and guns.

That, sir, is assault with a deadly weapon; as you should know! There is no exception for a law enforcement officer who chooses to disregard the law. I live in Virginia, and all I can say is I'm sure glad that you are retired. We don't need this kind of conduct by the people that we rely upon to enforce the law.

jimster · « **Reply #38 on:** April 08, 2010, 11:17:53 AM »

Law enforcment officer means they are trusted to enforce the laws, all of them, including the open carry laws. If they do not enforce open carry laws for the good people, who then is left to enforce those laws? Nobody it would seem. We talked earlier of there being nuts out there, what we did not touch on was there are also very good people who carry openly, and other people who would like to carry openly. They exist. There are many more good people than bad, so there must be many more good people who carry open, or would like to. The problem is, we have got to a point where not only do I need to worry about what civilians think of me if I legally strap on a holster and gun, I now have to worry about what a law enforcment officer thinks of me (some of them), the only person left to protect my legal right. That ain't right. I am better off carrying concealed....that way if a cop decides to point his gun at me for wearing one in the open I don't have to shoot him to defend myself. In this State and county with the prosecutor we have, I'd probably win that one...but I fear in many places the average citizen would not be allowed to protect himself from a police officer pointing a gun at him...that ain't right either.

I sometimes wonder how it got this way, where being legal could be questioned so much by so many.

Add on...Did not mean to sound so rednecky up there, I would never want anything bad to happen to any police officer or good civilian, I was just trying to point out that with the attitudes these days there could be potential disaster carrying open, that's why I always conceal mine. I certainly would never want to harm any person, especially an officer of the law, or have one shoot me which is more likely...that would a disaster that need not happen. Sorry for sounding like a dolt if that's the way it came across.

Jim

rybo · « **Reply #39 on:** April 08, 2010, 05:01:27 PM »

1. I wish open carry was more "socially acceptable" in all places. But its not. I would do so more often(or should I say I wouldn't worry so much) if it was more acceptable
2. Generally I carry concealed, but I won't worry if I open carry because I have to take my coat off for short stints, or if I am out fishing or hunting.
3. I feel I do a very good job of carrying concealed, but I work hard at it. Maybe I am just paranoid, but even the smallest 380 IWB prints if I lean forward or bend over. I don't know how people conceal anything big at all in a T shirt.

williamlayton · « **Reply #40 on:** April 09, 2010, 12:50:14 AM »

My only experience with Virginia Highway Patrol or State Trooper was 5AM in October of 2008. I was trying too get off the IH at Roanoke to get onto the Blue Ridge.
That is the only place along the IH that the exit is on the left---I was looking for it on the right. I did some squirrely driving for just a second and pulled to the shoulder to figger out what to do.
I saw the lights behind me and figgered a ticket was going too be in order.
The Trooper--a woman--Got out of the patrol car and the first thing she asked me was "BOY, have you been drinking?"
I said no ma'am and she asked why the hell I was driving crazy.
I gave he my DL and CHL and told her my story.
She looked at the situation, ran my DL, ame back and asked me one more time if I had been drinking and I offered too take any test she wanted andwith that she said--"I'm gonna let you cross over too your exit--wait til i tell you it is clear."
As i sat there waiting the next thing I heard was--in a loud, commanding voice, was "GO, BOY, GO."
I am suprised she didn't stop me again, for throwing rocks all over her.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #41 on:** April 09, 2010, 02:13:25 AM »

Good cop !
Hey all this what open carry LOOKS like is starting to have that PC sound to it . It ain't about the law anymore its can we PC you into thinking our way .
We all need to start an ANTI PC movement

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #42 on:** April 11, 2010, 02:34:31 PM »

What is PC?

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #43 on:** April 11, 2010, 02:44:40 PM »

Open carry is not a law to be enforced. What a stupid statement. Open carry is simply not against the law. Like having sex with the refrigerator in your basement is not illegal. If you have a need to express yourself by any kind of open display, go ahead. You are the one responsible for your actions, not the cops. I'm beginning to believe that open carry proponents will do anything to flaunt their "rights." I'm going to have to come back here next week to see what other moronic attitudes have surfaced. I hope by then some of you have completed a spelling class.

williamlayton · « **Reply #44 on:** April 11, 2010, 11:19:33 PM »

Mike
1) I am beginning to believe you are not a cop.
2) I am beginning to believe you are not an adult.
3) I have stopped believing anything you say.
You just don't make sense.
Blessings

Dogshooter · « **Reply #45 on:** April 12, 2010, 04:18:51 AM »

I always carry, sometimes open, sometimes concealed. I use my own judgement of when to do either because I have the right to do so. I respect the right that every other person I encounter has to form his or her own opinion about the issue. I do not let another person's paranoia dictate how I behave in public.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #46 on:** April 12, 2010, 09:02:05 AM »

I'm with you William , He seems to not have a clue or be very left wing

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:31:29 PM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on April 11, 2010, 02:44:40 PM

Open carry is not a law to be enforced. What a stupid statement. Open carry is simply not against the law. Like having sex with the refrigerator in your basement is not illegal. If you have a need to express yourself by any kind of open display, go ahead. You are the one responsible for your actions, not the cops. I'm beginning to believe that open carry proponents will do anything to flaunt their "rights." I'm going to have to come back here next week to see what other moronic attitudes have surfaced. I hope by then some of you have completed a spelling class.

I never got why if lawful to they don't have other guns like ak, m16, wheel guns or other weapons? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpB4jj1FXeA I mean they have CCW guns that you don't see most times. I would have Cowboy Action Sixguns, m1 carbine or guns people don't have "bad gun' to it. I would want people to come a see my gun if i am trying to make a point. If i had a glock people see a black gun , you have a Cowboy Action Sixgun people what to see it and look at it closely becuase it part of history and it make you think about a better time. Also why would you have a loaded gun for a protest in open carry? If i had a protest for open carry and the news wanted to talk to me about it and they wanted to see my gun. I would take it out and becuase it unload i can show my gun and talk about it. I would want the people watching the new to see 1. i know my gun and i do safely carry it 2. guns are not bad and by leting them have a look at my unloaded gun they can see it just a tool and 3. people don't like black guns

I would wear my BBQ gun/ court gun and rig. You want to have your best face out there if your trying to make a point, i would still have my loaded CCW gun Concealed on me.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #48 on:** April 13, 2010, 03:47:41 AM »

epanzella · « **Reply #49 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:15:56 AM »

Although here in Ct concealed carry is the law, I am firmly in agreement with it for 2 reasons.
1. A criminal can never know how many people in a room may be armed.
2. In the event of open carry, an armed citizen is going to be a criminal's (or criminals') first order of business if any malfesance is intended. The open carrier's weapon may likely be assimilated into the crime. I would rather not draw attention to myself by having a pistol strapped openly to my hip. This would allow me to determine when, or even if, my weapon will be deployed. In the case of a low key crime that may be concluded without injury to anyone, it may be prudent just to let it happen while remaining at the ready. This may not be what our male egos are craving, but in my opinion to start a shootout over a $25 robbery is penny wise and pound foolish. Not only yourself, but innocent people could be unnecessaserily killed. Once the first person on the scene is killed, the rest are just "witnesses". Just my 2

JeffG · « **Reply #50 on:** April 13, 2010, 07:07:19 AM »

Quote

Also cops aren't as viligent sometimes when off duty . Be sure it wasn't a cop before calling foul .

It yells, "Bad guy, shoot me first!" or "I love being put through the surrender ritual at gunpoint by the police!!"

williamlayton · « **Reply #51 on:** April 15, 2010, 03:01:58 AM »

Epanzella
Let's carry your thoght to its final resting place.
Crooks are criminals and criminals don't stop being criminals--they learn to be better criminals.
One with a gun will eventually put some persons life at risk.
If yo have the opportunity to stop this process from reaching its final conclusion, are you suggesting you hope he will stop?
It is not the amount of money that is the turning point. It is the amount of hurt and violation caused that is the turning point.
Blessings

jimster · « **Reply #52 on:** April 15, 2010, 12:35:04 PM »

Open carry is simply not against the law.

Correct. So there is no need for an officer to put the front sight of his weapon on the persons chest. I didn't do this when I saw someone who open carried.

You are the one responsible for your actions, not the cops.

Cops are even more responsible. If the action is just legal open carry, should not be a concern to a cop. Others who do not know the laws, may be concerned.

I'm going to have to come back here next week to see what other moronic attitudes have surfaced.

I'll be listening to some attitudes as well.

I hope by then some of you have completed a spelling class.

Prolly not...but the message will be the same.

Open carry is not a law to be enforced.

True....mis-spoken...but if other people are trying to make trouble for someone who is open carrying, you do need to pick the side of the person who is lawful.
Don't you? That might be considered enforcing his lawful right. Like the cop I told about that dropped off the state gun laws to a complainer...would you do that? For me?

Mike...your feeding the fire...I can only agree with you on one thing ...there could be possibly some police officers out there that are not responsible, but they are few compared to the many. You are responsible for all your actions and probably under more scrutiny than any civilians should rounds have to be fired.

I personally still choose for concealed, mainly due to the attitudes that have come about over the years....and my own personal reasons. It sure isn't to make a police officer feel better. That's their problem, not mine. I do not say this out of dis-respect at all...it's just a plain fact, and not all cops get upset over open carry either.

Jim

Casull · « **Reply #53 on:** April 15, 2010, 06:08:48 PM »

Quote

You are the one responsible for your actions, not the cops.

Now talk about a stupid statement. You speak of drawing down on some guy for having the audacity to wear an open sidearm, and then try to say that if you shoot him, it's his fault. Yeahhhh, that's going to go over with a jury real well. A cop who can't hold his water long enough to avoid shooting some guy with a HOLSTERED gun is more of a danger to the public than the guy he shoots. I'm now joining some of the others on here in questioning whether you were ever a cop. Sheeesh.

The Pistoleer · « **Reply #54 on:** April 16, 2010, 08:43:59 AM »

Wisconsin is one of 2 states (Illinois being the other) where concealed carry isn't an option. People here have started to open carry, which is legal. At first there were problems and a couple arrests but then our Attorney General said that police couldn't arrest an individual for disorderly conduct (which is what they were doing) for open carry. This is beginning to cause quite a stir and we might get concealed carry because of it. Our legislature has actually passed CC twice but failed to override the Democratic Governor's veto.

Wish us luck.

Pete

jimster · « **Reply #55 on:** April 16, 2010, 02:19:00 PM »

at first there were problems and a couple arrests but then our Attorney General said that police couldn't arrest an individual for disorderly conduct (which is what they were doing) for open carry.

Sounds like some police officers were not "enforcing the law" on open carry. hmmmmm

epanzella · « **Reply #56 on:** April 16, 2010, 02:22:24 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on April 15, 2010, 03:01:58 AM

Epanzella
Let's carry your thoght to its final resting place.
Crooks are criminals and criminals don't stop being criminals--they learn to be better criminals.
One with a gun will eventually put some persons life at risk.
If yo have the opportunity to stop this process from reaching its final conclusion, are you suggesting you hope he will stop?
It is not the amount of money that is the turning point. It is the amount of hurt and violation caused that is the turning point.
Blessings

William,
I probably didn't explain as well as I could have. The point I was making was with concealed carry you have a choice to escalate what's going on or not. To act immediately or later or not at all. With open carry as soon as an armed felon notices that you're armed what ever's gonna happen is gonna happen right now. Of course the felon may have just changed his mind if he saw you were armed before the point of no return, the dice are always rollin' on that. My point about a "$25" robbery was not to insinuate your actions should be determined by the dollar amount, but to consider collateral damage before acting. If an armed robbery is occurring in a convenience store loaded with school kids or women with kids, starting a shootout might get some innocents killed, where as doing nothing might be safer for all concerned. I would feel pretty bad if I let a robber get away while I was armed but I'd feel a lot worse if I initiated something that got a kid killed. Spending the rest of my life wondering what would have happened if I did nothing. Tuff choices that I hope you or I will never have to make.
Ed P

williamlayton · « **Reply #57 on:** April 17, 2010, 02:38:22 AM »

Good points Ed, thanks for the clarifying statements. I agree--but that doesn't mean all will or should--just opinion.

Too carry this farther.
Shooting is an act that cannot be returned and deleated.
The mind set should not ever be looking for the opportunity.
The mind set should be the willingness to take on the resopnsibilty of the aftermath of the incident.
The incident will never leave and the fallen one will always throw it up too your psyche.
If you are not willing to commit an act that will live with you forever then you should not commit to carrying in the first place.
Now, and this is my opinion, I can live with the sonsequences of a good shooting easier that I could live with not getting involved and have some innocent suffer from my lack of willingness.
If I am understood correctly.
Blessings
PS--cops are rarely around too pervent. If someone is around to prevent then that person should take the responsibility. These acts go a long way to makeing society safer. BG's are basic cowards who tread on those unable/unwilling to protect theirownselves. The word gets out when they find that there are others who will not cower too their intimidations.
Blessings

jimster · « **Reply #58 on:** April 17, 2010, 05:46:16 AM »

Good points William and Ed. Carrying a weapon in public is an awsome responsibilty. So many things have to be thought about if something happens in a crowded public place, first thing that has to go through your head is background/backstop, more than likely the more crowded the more you won't be able to safely do anything, unless the background/situation changes fast. BG's don't have those considerations and it puts everyone at a disadvantage, even those who carry and police officers are at a disadvantage in public places because of that. The good guy/gal does not want to be the one that causes a disaster by using poor judgement. If people carry they have some very tough choices to make.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #59 on:** April 21, 2010, 03:08:09 AM »

Lets not forget that open carry offers a crook a chance to see and maybe grab your weapon . In open carry one must be ready to defend the gun from someone trying to grab it . Also when no one can see who has the guns then the crook does not know who will react to him with a gun . On the other hand the sight of a gun may either bring fire to the guy carrying open or cause the crook to look for victoms else where . None of this is the point , the point is if legal ITS LEGAL and a cop getting the idea he can shoot a guy cause he has a holstered legal weapon reaks of the cop having the idea he is judge , jury and hang man.

As far as good grammer and spelling , this ain't no English class or work report !
RELAX !