Author Topic: Concealed Carry means Concealed Carry (Read 6657 times)

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #60 on:** April 23, 2010, 03:12:36 AM »

i conceal.. now as get ready to leave my car at a buisiness or what ever i am careful to
assess whos watching an whats between myself an the door..if theres a possible bg hanging out
anywhere near,my hands rest on the gun and i hope he see s that i might have some bad medicine for him..
show assertive confidense,with just a glance without a challenging stare..he ll realize that you are aware of him,as hes watching, an assessing you also..jmo..slim
ps the bg can be setting with several others in a car or most anywhere ,so learn to be real observant..then expect the best an be ready for the worst,,whether you see anything suspicious or not..

epanzella · « **Reply #61 on:** April 30, 2010, 06:23:34 AM »

Quote from: slim rem 7 on April 23, 2010, 03:12:36 AM

i conceal.. now as get ready to leave my car at a buisiness or what ever i am careful to
assess whos watching an whats between myself an the door..if theres a possible bg hanging out
anywhere near,my hands rest on the gun and i hope he see s that i might have some bad medicine for him..
show assertive confidense,with just a glance without a challenging stare..he ll realize that you are aware of him,as hes watching, an assessing you also..jmo..slim
ps the bg can be setting with several others in a car or most anywhere ,so learn to be real observant..then expect the best an be ready for the worst,,whether you see anything suspicious or not..

Situational awareness will always be your most valuable weapon. A person with a criminal intent has the advantage over a prospective victim because he controls when the incident will begin and only has to be heads-up for that brief time period. For the intended victim that same time period is just another monotonous part of a routine day unless his awareness tells him otherwise. The slickest carry gun made won't help you if your're distracted and allow a bad guy to come up behind you and bash you in the back of the head with a tire iron.

jcn59 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 09, 2010, 11:49:09 AM »

A police officer on the side of the road in his clearly marked squad car reduces the incidence of speeding & other violations.

Does a person excercising his right to open carry also reduce the risk of violent crime against himself?

Is the same man with a concealed gun as safe as the man practicing open carry?

The man with a concealed gun appears unarmed.......a perfect victim.

Seems this issue is a no-brainer, contaminated by what is socially acceptable to the politically correct.

born-to-hunt · « **Reply #63 on:** June 09, 2010, 11:53:16 AM »

There was a guy around here that had a big 100 and some dollar fine because his gun wasn't concealed enough

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #64 on:** June 09, 2010, 11:56:48 AM »

Here they take them and your lic. to tote also. And you don't get it back.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #65 on:** June 09, 2010, 05:48:09 PM »

The trouble with open carry is that you have Federal, State, County, and City ordinances. You can be perfectly legal in one spot, walk a few yards, cross a boundary, and find yourself suddenly breaking the law. Concealed Carry covers way more ground. Also, say you are inside a store and you know open carry is not allowed. A guy walks in with a weapon in sight you imediately suspect he's up to no good. He has your undevided attention. If open carry was legal every where, and everyove carried, just imagine all the people you'd have to keep an eye on. As long as I can reach my weapon when needed, I could care less if the bad guy doesn't know I've got it. In fact, I'd much rather surprise him than give him fair warning and perhaps let him gain the edge. I really don't believe a guy with a concealed weapon appears an easy victom either just because he doesn't have a weapon visible. It's all in how a person carries themself. If you appear confident in your walk and you appear aware of your suroundings, then most likely the BG will notice and look for a less aware, less confident potential victom. Criminals are usually cowards that key in on weakness. Bottom line the way I see this discussion Mike, it's just like those who argue over the use of crossbows during archery season or modern muzzleloaders versus traditional. You get away from the benifits and any good being accomplished simply because of your own personal preferance and the lack of being willing to give someone else the same rights you're claiming for yourself. That is that, if it's legal, they have the right of personal preferance just as much as you do. Just my opinion. Everybodies got one.

bubbinator · « **Reply #66 on:** June 09, 2010, 08:40:05 PM »

What is coming down in Chicago's Gun Ban case before the Supreme Court will settlw lots of issues dicussed here soon. One thing in the whole enchilada discussed here distresses me-Mike In Virginia. My God, where do mothers birth these gene pool deliquents? If I get scolded for this, Shame on me, but D%^$, I feel better.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #67 on:** June 10, 2010, 02:24:07 AM »

I don't feel a need to watch everyone who open carries . Most bad guys hide their weapon until needed as to not draw attention.
Guess CC is more like a bad guy than open carry when the citizen with the right to bear arms has nothing to hide .

Guess saying we need to watch others with legal guns shows the effect the sosicalist have had on us.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #68 on:** June 10, 2010, 06:55:15 AM »

Well, maybe it's just my nature, maybe it's my life's exsperiences, but I keep my eyes on anyone with a visible weapon of any kind. In areas I've been that's called survival! Just because you can see it doesn't mean all is right in the world. I agree most bad guys will have their weapon hidden but that's just not always the case. I've been robbed twice by guys who walked up carrying their weapons in plain sight! That was long before I got my CCW. To compare a citizen, with a legal CCW permit, to a criminal just because their weapon is concealed is just wrong. Like it or not there are many ordances, and Shooter you've often mentioned that yourself, that prohibit in one place what's legal in another. Concealed carry is simply allowed in way more places and for that reason alone it pays to have a CCW. Instead of arguing that one is more right than the other though doesn't it make much more sense to stand behind both open AND concealed carry as long as the weapon is in the hands of a legal carrier? Criminals could care less what the law is anways. The objective should be to arm legal citizens to be able to protect themselves against criminals and to argue it should strictly be open carry, or strictly concealed, does nothing but devide those of us who should be uniting to insure we can carry in the first place!

jcn59 · « **Reply #69 on:** June 10, 2010, 07:29:11 AM »

I was suggesting that concealed carry looks the same as unarmed. Myself, if I were carrying open, I'd feel strange, like a 5 year old kid wearing a Brett Farve halloween costume . Or going squirrel hunting with an elephant rifle.

Consider for a moment that my views are contaminated by living in an open-carry ONLY state run by a democraptic governor who got us so far into debt that he quit. Our US congressman, chairman of the finance committee (I think), well he quit too. Our Wisconsin congressman, Gary Sherman, and another one, Spencer Black, they quit, too. Rats leaving a sinking ship.

So my concealed carry permit was issued by a different state. It's valid all over much of the USA, but not in the state where I pay taxes. We need to restore sanity to civilian life. We have no government anymore, just politicians. There is a difference.

VOTE THEM ALL OUT IN NOVEMBER, THEN DO THE SAME NEXT ELECTION!

pneuby · « **Reply #70 on:** June 10, 2010, 09:15:35 AM »

The only thing I'd like to see with regard to OC is a bit of common-sense with the choice of rig.
Have something, anything, which is secure. I'm not talking about a LEO's level-III security holster. I just mean something other than those 'one-size-don't-fit-all' nylon belt slides with ubiquitous velcro fumble-strap.

Boned-leather with thumb-break...great. Kydex, okay. Accu-mold..good. Old Hunter leather rig w/Jordan type strap..fine.

The worst of this I saw was some young chap dressed in 'urban-gangster' style. Had a Ruger P95 just dangling out from his back pocket. Ready to tumble out onto the tarmac, or easy to snatch..if you were a rival 'banger'!.

You know the 2nd worst? A senior-citizen, with an Officer's Model 1911 tucked into a simple belt slide with no retention strap. Granted, the old-timer may in fact be someone who shouldn't be accosted. However, to the eyes of a predator, he sure 'nuff looked like he could be prey.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #71 on:** June 10, 2010, 10:48:06 AM »

If its wrong to compare a CC to a crook then it is also wrong to compare legal open carry to a crook.
I can assure you I have lived and worked in enough bad places that I keep an eye and most if not all people weapon showing or not . Getting beat , caught in a roit , being shot at and attacked with a knife all tend to peak the senses a bit and leave one with a new out look on their fellow man. I'm not PC I profile ! If I don't know someone I watch them if they are in a position to harm me.

Curtis · « **Reply #72 on:** June 10, 2010, 01:49:43 PM »

I would like open carry in my state if for no other reason than to prevent some panic stricken lib-tard from criminalizing me just because my CC happened to peak out when I reached for a top shelf item in Wal-Mart. In Texas I can be prosecuted and lose my CC right for such an event.

Curtis

Spirithawk · « **Reply #73 on:** June 10, 2010, 02:54:32 PM »

Shootall, I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest with you guy, I hope you don't feel that way, and I didn't mean to compare anyone open carrying to a criminal, and don't believe I did so. I only said that you tend to keep a special eye on anyone walking around with a weapon in sight where open carry isn't allowed, and anyone obviously carrying anywhere as just being aware of what's going on around you, just common sense. Heck, I too might ask about their weapon if it's something I'm not familiar with, but if I don't know the person he's going to get kept an eye on PERIOD. I also pointed out that, despite what was being said, criminals don't follow guide lines and yes they do sometimes carry in plain sight. I'm a bit confused though, in one post you say you don't feel the need to keep an eye on everyone who open carries and in the next you assure me that you watch everybody in a position to harm you , including open carry, which is as I said a good idea for us all to do in the first place. I stressed that being aware of our suroundings is a must. I still believe that what is being overlooked here is that BOTH have their place and time. Sometimes by neccessity and sometimes by personal preferance. To diss one over the other is destructive to those who carry legally and not to the criminal at all. I do whole heartily agree with everyone that if you have a CCW and somehow slip up and someone either sees, or guesses, your carrying it shouldn't be the end of the world. Here in Missouri it's much the same as being caught carrying in a place you're not supose to. It's not a criminal act, the first time. You get a warning and a possible $100 fine if you were just plain being ignorant and the police are called. There's accidents and then there's stupidity.The second time they take it more serious and if there's a third goodby CCW permit. If you're going to take on the responsibility of concealed carry you should make every effort to stay concealed. I wear extra long tailed shirts so that when I do reach for upper shelves in stores I still have room for error.

bubbinator · « **Reply #74 on:** June 10, 2010, 08:53:59 PM »

There is a video on YouTube about concealed carry and kids wearing baggy clothing. A normal looking kid was shown standing in front of a school teachers desk scenario. As the video ran, he took I think 17 weapons out of his clothing, to include a Rem 870 12 ga with a sawed off barrel! He had 1911s, .38s, .22s, 9mms! You could not see a single thing out of place at the start of the video. That was an LEO-circulated video, but it shows we have to be prepared for what the real world holds for us.
Open carry? While legal and a right in some good places, can make you a target for a bad guy, just like an off duty cop/retired cop like me wearing a "Shoot Me First" tee shirt in public! Common sense should be the ruler to measure your actions.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #75 on:** June 14, 2010, 04:21:55 AM »

No pizzing contest , I don't single out the open cary no speical attention . I do watch everone that can hurt me with out regard to seeing a weapon. And that is my point . I don't recall a bad guy wearing a gun in plain view , in hand yes but not holstered . To be honest uniformed guards sacre me . I have seen them take some wild shots in public . Next would be a small % of police who get scared and lose control. I have seen this once . I came along when police went from well police in the American tradition to a para military group. The years of cross over were rough in many areas. It seems the training is better in some respects now even if the respect for law abiding citizens seems to suffer.

williamlayton · « **Reply #76 on:** June 14, 2010, 12:50:33 PM »

Good discussion and good points.
I like concealed carry and favor it over open.
I feel more comfortable, less like a target.
Blessings

Frank V · « **Reply #77 on:** June 16, 2010, 11:17:33 AM »

Quote from: bubbinator on April 05, 2010, 10:18:18 PM

I am an absolute supporter of our 2nd amendment rights, a gun carrying LEO since age 17 in the USAF and now retired with over 42 yrs. in military and Civilian/State law Enforcement. As a USAF SPI, I carried a 1911 and a S&W M36 for yrs. w/o incident (or authorization and was blessed with a few commanders who believed in " if you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question"). As a State Police Officer, I carried openly and under cover, on and off duty. A police officer just knows, after years of experience, who is like and Almond Joy. Some are nuts/ Some are Not! I really believe that some of the people who persist in carrying openly "just because they can" hurt the cause. If you look like an armed idiot in public-people will think you are an armed idiot and react accordingly. Assuming the burden to bear the means to terminate another humans life with 3 pounds of trigger pull is not something to be taken lightly and carries a huge responsibility. A hunter with a side arm is one thing, some SWAT wannabe in Walmart with a Glock in a tactical rig and black BDUs may be his "right", but it doesn't help the cause.

I agree, we have open carry here in Montana. I don't do it (I have a ccw permit) I cover it up. I too think we alienate honest citizens when we open carry in a place of business. I've been known to take off my belt & holster, & carry my gun into a business concealed when returning from a hunting/fishing trip. Let's not alienate someone who was neutral before he/she saw joe Rambo packing into the grocery store. because it's legal might not make it smart?
Frank

hornady · « **Reply #78 on:** June 28, 2010, 07:19:48 AM »

This has been all over the board; But hear in Pa, open carry is legal everywhere but Philadelphia, There is even a Pa Form dedicated mainly to open and concealed carry, I have a LTCF, but on occasion do open carry, not as some have implied as an ego boost, But open carry was more suited for the situation, yes there are areas that open carry gets the odd look, but in many areas here, it is common place, and will not generate more than a second look. As to appeasing the anti gun people, this will only happen when there are no more guns, this would be like convincing PETA that hunting is a good thing, I know guys that are embarrassed to admit in public they hunt,
Anyone that carries open or concealed should already know, just the fact that you have a Weapon, you put your self at risk of legal troubles, I look back at the things that were taboo back in the 60s, but today because it has been forced on most of us older guys, these same taboos are totally excepted. Yes to some open carry may seem strange, but I believe this to will be accepted with time. It reminds me of something I read in school many years ago, A right not exercised will soon be lost.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #79 on:** June 28, 2010, 08:24:08 AM »

This country is of laws if its legal there is a reason for it even if you can't agree . Best part is if you wish not to carry open ya don't have to in most places. I would guess that open carry goes back to when non criminals had nothing to hide and exersiced there right to be armed same as today for some. As far as cause what cause ? Think past the "cause" think RIGHTS and educate yourself and others .

jimster · « **Reply #80 on:** June 30, 2010, 12:16:51 PM »

It's a sad day when even though something is legal, you have to be afraid to do it because of public opinion. I conceal, but it's as if I'm forced to due to this attitude that has come about. So now we have to hide something legal. I notice the gays can have a parade through town, but I have to worry about open carry. Now it's gotton to the point where it's even "not smart" to open carry. Another ten years I suppose the people who freak out at open carry will access the data base on who has a permit to conceal, and we'll have to hide that somehow too. Wonder how we will hide that?
They get at us a little at a time, pretty soon even the gun people start to concede and say nobody should open carry, gotta be careful of offending people, and let's not forget the few cops out there that will paint your chest with their front sights if your holster is showing. Gotta make them feel better too, even though the law is on your side and clear as a bell.

How much more we going to give up? When does it stop? We have lost so much, we can't even follow the laws that are in our favor anymore.
Makes me sick to think about it.

jcn59 · « **Reply #81 on:** June 30, 2010, 02:29:36 PM »

On the bright side, 5 SC justices saved our government with their decision a few days ago.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #82 on:** June 30, 2010, 05:17:37 PM »

Shootall, "rights" are many and varied. We have the right to speak freely, but I'm not sure I want to talk openly against any particular group in their presence. We have the right to bear arms, but I don't think I want to take my assault rifle downtown. We have the right to free press, but I'm not going to write an editorial on what I might think of illegal Mexican immigrants. By not using all of our rights, we do not diminish them or risk having them revoked. Our rights are taken away by changing politics--that's all. I don't believe you open carry everywhere you go. You can spout off all you please about how we ought to, but in the end, you don't do it. If you can type information into a computer, if you can read, if you can master the use of a firearm, you have more sense than to tote a firearm in plain view everywhere you go.

This thread has been open for weeks. It's at the top. While your opinions are so visible, while your chance to express yourself is so open to the public, go ahead and tell us that you open carry all the time. No? You don't? What are the circumstances that prevent you from displaying your "right"? You'll respond with rhetoric, I've no doubt. Have some guts and tell us what you really do. Can you not admit that public opinion, cops, people with common sense, will never accept a displayed firearm in every scenario.

Casull · « **Reply #83 on:** June 30, 2010, 05:34:32 PM »

Quote

What are the circumstances that prevent you from displaying your "right"? You'll respond with rhetoric, I've no doubt. Have some guts and tell us what you really do.

Perhaps he's worried about some "Barney Fife" who freaks out, wets his pants and draws down on him for having a legal holstered sidearm.

jimster · « **Reply #84 on:** July 01, 2010, 07:53:20 AM »

Quote

Perhaps he's worried about some "Barney Fife" who freaks out, wets his pants and draws down on him for having a legal holstered sidearm.

Could be! The only story I know from these parts is the story I told earlier...where the cop gave the person complaining of open carry a copy of the state laws to shut them up.

So maybe it's not all cops out there peeing their pants over this.

The attitudes came about over time...if everyone started carrying all at once where it's legal, all the bad cops would be weeded out right quick...and over time, it would go the other way. Like everything else in life, changes are hard at first...then not so much after everyone gets used to it.

bagdadjoe · « **Reply #85 on:** July 06, 2010, 05:29:52 PM »

I think Mikey has a rather large chip on his shoulder. Further, I think the main idiot with a gun around, in his presence ....is him. And yet further, I don't think he needs to be in the law enforcement business if he has such a low threshold of what is threatening behavior. Maybe he ought to live in Chicago and then if someone is openly carrying there's a good chance he/she is a villian and he can jump on them with both jackboots.
I don't open carry all the time...I don't wear underwear all the time...so what? Sometimes you feel like wearing lace up boots, sometimes you feel like wearing flipflops. It's what we call an "option". I may if I want to and I don't have to if I don't want. If it's legal, then it's up to law enforcement to adapt to the law. And, it's none of Mikey's beez-wax if someone exercises their option...and their rights. Obviously, he wants everyone to conform to his views and is ready to draw on them if they don't. Kinda reminds me of the constable at the school zone in Jonesborough, Tenn a few years back who was pulling his pistol if people didn't slow down enough coming though. How 'bout it Mikey...that wuz you, wuntinit?
Actually, Mikey is really a behavioral psychologist who's just studying people's reactions to inane provocation.
Just ol' bagdadjoe's opinion. (re-adjusted my hat...must of been too tight)

williamlayton · « **Reply #86 on:** July 06, 2010, 11:00:03 PM »

Who is Wil'm? Me?
Just curious.
Blessings

bagdadjoe · « **Reply #87 on:** July 07, 2010, 05:23:46 AM »

???I must have gotten disoriented readin' all that....I meant Mikey ....my humblest apologies....

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #88 on:** July 07, 2010, 08:11:42 AM »

bagdadjoe, don't be so hard he is just proof of how well the education systen is converting us to progressives .............

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #89 on:** July 09, 2010, 12:20:06 PM »

Thanks, guys. I'm done. Your input will be of help to me and others. Perhaps my methods were a bit harsh, but it sometimes takes a little hostility to retrieve spontaneous remarks, which reveal the truth. My best regards to all of you.