45-70 data confusion

[simplicity]

I have just bought myself a stainless marlin guide gun in 45-70, I plan on reloading for it 'm not new to reloading just new to this caliber. I mainly shoot 338 win mag and 500 smith so recoil is something I'm not worried about at all. My problem is I want to load up to the higher end of the spectrum with the 45-70 but the data I've been finding has me a bit bewildered according to the hornady loading manual 6th edition  (I'm going to use this bullet and charge as a reference to what I'm refering to) I decided to go with h4198 and in the hornady manual for the 1895 action the charge velocity  for a 350 grain rn bullet with this powder starts at 37.1 grains at a vel. of 1400fps and their max load is 48.4 grains at a vel. of 1900 fps. which here is where my delema starts. If you go to the hodgon website  for the same powder and bullet their starting load is 48.5 grains at a vel. of 2036fps and their max load is 54.0 grains at a vel of 2191 fps. I know loads should be worked up  but that is a huge difference and the hodgon loads are more to what I'm looking at loading just wondering are these loads safe? They were listed for lever actions  but just the hodgon mid range load is a bit way over maximum of hornadys. I know in the past alof of hornady data and the results I have gotten through my chrono, my chrono always showed atleast 200 fps below what hornady claims  they would do with the load listed out of the same length barrel.  I have always used the hodgon dats when I worked up 500 smith loads and they have always been quite acurate according to load velocity. But like I said that is a huge difference in charge weights. Is there anyone out there that loads in the hodgon range for the same gun or a marlin 1895 in general? Or can someoen out there throw me a bone on what's safe in the to use in the guide gun. I would definetly enjoy getting the performance of the hodgon. Thankz for any info.

[flashhole]

I load for the Guide Gun and I use the Hornady 350 grain RN bullet.  My two favorite powders are Varget and H-4895.  4895 wins the stout award.  My loads chrono at about 1960 fps out of my 18.5" barrel.  I'm at the max load for each powder, 59 grains is all I can fit in the case.  Both are accurate but 4895 gets me a bit further out with a flatter trajectory.  You will be OK with 54 grains of 4198 but work up to it looking for pressure signs or a loss of accuracy as you get near the high end.  I've been all the way up to 62 grains of Varget with compression but accuracy started to go away so I backed off to 59 grains.

[Steve P]

You have to "sort" through the 45/70 data to get the loads you want.  There are three (3) Four (4) families of guns and they each have their own section of data.  Most loading manuals have each of these sections pretty well spelled out.

Early 45/70 guns like the Rem. Rolling Blocks, early buffalo guns, and replicas that originally used black powder are on the low spectrum, low pressure loads.

There are more modern guns, replicas, break actions, etc that use a middle of the road pressure.  This is where I would get my data for the H&R and any low cost firearm.

There are HIGH pressure loads for the newer and heavier (stronger) bolt action or other type rounds.  I am not sure, but I would think the Marlin guide gun would fit into this group.

You also have the loads for the pistols...Contenders, Encores, BFRs, etc.

Check your data closely for the 45/70 and MAKE SURE you get the correct data for YOUR firearm.

Steve

[bikerbeans]

Simplicity,

10-4 on the load confusion for the 45 70.  The H4198 hodgdon data you refer too is for modern firearms.  I have seen this interpreted to be the Ruger #1 & #3 and also the H&R Handis.  I know there are other guns that fit this and I think your Marlin is one of them.  I know I have seen loads posted on www.handloads.com for the Marlin lever gun that are diffently high pressure.  The hodgdon data has loads to 50,000, while most other powder companies only list data to about 40,000 psi.  Also, if you look at Barnes reloading data for #1 & #3 Rugers they indicate they have tested to 55,000 psi and I think that Barnes mentions the guide gun. 

I am using H4198 for the 45 70 in my Handi Rifle, 22" barrel.  I have shot up to 50.2 grains with a 405 Remingston SP @ OAL of 2.626.  Also a maximum Lee Factory Crimp, this bullet is about 0.035 off the lands in my gun.  No velocity numbers as my Chrono gave up the ghost.  This is a very stout load but the primers look fine and the round ejects normally.  I have noticed that the H4198 burns very nice in this gun with very little residue.  The factory Remington & Hornady 45 70 rounds leave a lot of residue in my barrel.

Good luck with your reloading

BB

[kevinsmith5]

Steve, the H&R Handi action is more than capable of firing modern loads.  My BC has been used to push 550 gr loads to 1900 fps.  Recoil is awe inspiring, but the action can handle it. The same action is chamebered in 500 S&W.