Author Topic: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns  (Read 2496 times)

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Offline Cannoneer

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Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« on: March 31, 2010, 07:57:51 PM »
Here are a couple of interesting Spanish bronze swivel cannons; both are listed as sold, but the cost isn't given. I couldn't copy any of the photos to post. Spanish Main Antiques
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline BoomLover

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 09:30:48 PM »
Very nice site to go exploring! Thanks for posting!
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2010, 04:11:00 AM »
A friend alerted me to this sale in Scotland, which includes historic artillery

http://www.the-saleroom.com/Catalogues/List.aspx?eventId=2791395&pageIndex=3

Bob Smith

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2010, 05:12:38 AM »
I like the Dutch mortar and Howitzer.... unless I win the lottery someone else will have to buy them.....
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2010, 09:21:27 AM »
A friend alerted me to this sale in Scotland, which includes historic artillery

http://www.the-saleroom.com/Catalogues/List.aspx?eventId=2791395&pageIndex=3

Bob Smith

Some interesting pieces, thanks for the post, Bob.

I've never read nor heard of "shingle damage" before; is that simply describing the abrasion caused by the motion of the sea rubbing the shingle over the surface of bronze items in situ on the sea bed?
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline thelionspaw

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2010, 10:11:27 AM »
John,
That's exactly what "shingle damage" is from. "Shingles" are ocean floor stones.

Richard "The Former Diver"
Protect Freedom of Speech; to identify IDIOTS!

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2010, 07:54:25 AM »
Thank you, Richard. So you can hang yet another 'shingle' on your wall, that of diver. :D
Tell me, what was your favorite diving activity, trying to bring "pearls of wisdom" to the surface? ::)  Yes Rich, I know this last one was really hokey, even by my standards. ;)
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2010, 08:16:07 AM »
Here's a fine example of a 17th century French naval gun that sold for £55,000 at a British auction held last year. Louis XIV 24-pounder





RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2010, 08:39:32 AM »
BoomJ,

Did you notice the British property mark?

And are the weights French or British?

It most likely came off a prize ship and continued on in British service.
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Zulu

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2010, 09:54:21 AM »
55,000 pounds is a lot of coin. :o
Nice gun.
Zulu
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2010, 11:55:43 AM »
yes it sure is a lot of money , but it aint often you find such an beauty for sale either
most quality cannons are owned by museums
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Two bronze breech loading Spanish swivel guns
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2010, 06:14:48 AM »
BoomJ,

Did you notice the British property mark?

And are the weights French or British?

It most likely came off a prize ship and continued on in British service.



Allen,
According to the history given by the auction house, this gun was in all probability taken by the British as a prize from the French at the battle of Vigo Bay in 1702. French and allied Spanish ships were the targets of the British and Dutch in this battle. I don't know about the weight marks; the incised numbers look a little haphazard to me, so I'd guess these were put there by the British after the gun was captured.

"The Spanish treasure fleet was also obliterated save for a handful of vessels which fell to the Anglo-Dutch forces. Unfortunately most of the cargo had been safely disembarked and moved inshore by the Spanish, resulting in a disappointing haul for the Allies. By 24th October the operation was over however, it is probable that this bronze cannon was taken soon after the battle, as Rooke wrote in his journal (the date given was from the old calendar prior to the Calendar Act of 1752):- At break of day this morning (13th. Oct. ) I went up to Ronondella's and gave the necessary orders for securing the ships of war prizes that were afloat - and for getting off those that lay on shore without any hopes of their being saved, to get out the brass guns of those that were lost.. Shortly afterwards Admiral Shovell's squadron arrived to undertake the final destruction of the fortifications and the surviving hulks of the captured Spanish Fleet. HMS Association: The ordnance arrow chiselled into the breach of the cannon suggests that when captured, probably at Vigo Bay, the gun was found to be in serviceable condition. Therefore it is likely to have been immediately incorporated into the armament of the Royal Navy, presumably making its way onto the 90-gun Association which was later to become Admiral Sir Cloudesley Shovell's flagship."

Dan,
While I'm certainly no collector, I agree with you about the price paid for this gun; if the provenance given by this auction house is valid, then that coupled with the era of manufacture of this fine French naval piece would seem to more than justify its cost.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.