Author Topic: breaking in a barrel (Read 1263 times)

nova71 · « **on:** April 01, 2010, 03:09:27 PM »

OK, I have read the FAQ and the process I understand, my question is : J-B paste is recommended but the place I am ordering from comes up with USP bore cleaning paste when I put in a search for J-B paste. they also have Montana X-Treme , Break-Free bore cleaning and polishing paste, and Iosso bore cleaning paste. Is there really any difference between the polishing paste

I think I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that you could use GHE Simichrome Polish , if that would work just as good I have some of that. I just want to be sure that I do it right the first time.... what do you experts recommend?

.... thanks in advance.... Larry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** April 01, 2010, 03:17:42 PM »

Yup, they'll all work, USP was the first product I used, I've since used all of the others you've mentioned except the Iosso, but others have used it with no problems. From the testing that Varmint Al has done, Flitz is slightly more aggressive than JB, but a lot more commonly available, it can be found in supermarkets with other silver polishes.

Tim

http://www.varmintal.net/arelo.htm

spikehorn · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2010, 04:45:35 PM »

I got my JB bore paste from Brownells

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2010, 05:02:13 PM »

I prefer the old method, just shoot em.

DP

Datil · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2010, 05:44:24 PM »

I agree with Dpe.ahoy Datil

Doug B. · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2010, 12:22:57 AM »

Like a new engine.....run it to break it in.

New gun.................Shoot it!

PawPaw · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2010, 03:33:09 AM »

There are lots of "break-in" procedures available on the internet and in the shooting community. I've even seen one guy who uses Crest toothpaste.

Most barrels these days take a hundred rounds or more before they've smoothed out. Some swear by the old sho0t-one, clean-one, shoot five, clean-one routine. It's like the old carny barkers used to say: "You pays your money and you takes your chances."

Daman · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2010, 03:43:15 AM »

FWIW I have never polished a barrel before shooting and up to now I have never had a single gun give me trouble with the exception of a Rossi 243. I do have a new 7-08 that I am thinking about polishing cause shells ain't exactly cheap for it. Time will tell.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2010, 06:50:07 AM »

I had a new bike engine that used a little oil between 2500 mi. oil changes. I kept driving, and using my same prefered, high quality oil. Finally about 16K the rings really seated in, oil consumption slowed to basically nothing. As far as I am concerned I got about 16K 'free' miles before it started wearing out.
BTW, last I knew that engine had about 80K on it and was going strong.
Lapp a bore? Same as seating rings? Not exactly apples to apples, but why not use it and see what it does?

bobg · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2010, 06:58:54 AM »

The only rifle i used the break in on was my Savage 204. Don't think it shoots any better that my guns i just shot and didn't worry about a break in.
bobg

AtlLaw · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2010, 07:21:15 AM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on April 02, 2010, 06:50:07 AM

Lapp a bore? Same as seating rings? Not exactly apples to apples, but why not use it and see what it does?

When this shoot one, clean for x rounds, shoot 2, clean for x rounds, and on and on, fad started, I had to try it. Like moly bullets and cryo treatment, it was 'spose the best thing to come along since canned beer.

I musta wore out a half dozen cleaning rods and have tennis elbow in my whole arm! And I ain't noticed the first bit a difference!

Now before some a y'all come after me like irate daddys of teenage girls, this is just my experience. YMMV

Hiebber, and day always be a hi-ebber, my experience with Handi rifles has led me to clean a new barrel a little more often and also stroke it a few times with JB... just in case dontcha know!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2010, 01:58:07 PM »

A while back..when I first started shooting rifles..(right around 50 years ago)..my father was a very good stock maker and gunsmith..He had a large client list that he built all kinds of stocks and rifles for. One of his things was to make sure the rifling was as smooth as possible,which required him to hand lap the old fashion way with lead slugs and grinding polish.Every rifle he ever made he also hand loaded ammunition for his clients.In all of the time he was doing that,I think he only had 1 or 2 rifles that wouldn't group under 1" and those were really big bore ones.He loved the Weatherby style rifle stocks and calibers towards the end of his career..and made many of them when they first were the craze.So..I learned then by sitting at his bench and helping in his shop, it was best to emulate dear old Dad..cause he knew then how to make a rifle accurate..So after trying many different ways to break in a barrel..I lap all of mine now,before I ever fire 1 shot down the bore.While I don't lap like he did with a poured lead slug and rod..I do lap mine with Flitz and a 2x larger bore mop until I can pass a very tight fitting patch through the bore without any snags coming off of it.I'll make 25-50 full passes reapplying the Flitz every 5 passes to a cleaned off mop ( I use 3-5 mops each time I lap) then clean the bore really good with Hoppes or just Rem-Oil and patches. I clean it completely not just the bore but the chamber as well,and then test it dry patches and continue to lap it till I am satisfied with how it feels when I push the patch down the bore. I always use a bore guide on the chamber end to keep the rod as straight as possible while doing this. Usually..I will spend 4-6 hours on each new Handi barrel I do now..I've spent a lot longer than that on a few of them that were pretty damn rough..but those were out of the norm..

While this may seem excessive to many here..as what has already been said..you get out of it what you put into it..and with these rifles..you really do.Almost every Handi I have ever owned save but 2 or 3 of them that I have spent this much time on have been exceedingly accurate..some even scary accurate..and this is with factory loads too..not just my reloads..Unless I am shooting a Lubalox coated bullet or a moly coated one..clean up is very easy..and yea..I am one that cleans after each shooting session unless I am hunting or in between hunts but still hunting..I have found that once my barrel is very smooth..not cleaning them regular deters accuracy..as do most barrels that have smoothed and polished bores..Only the rough ones I have had liked to be shot fouled or dirty as some say..

It's a lot of work..and many don't/won't do it like I do... because they haven't really lapped the bore with 20-30 passes..they've just did a deeper cleaning than normal..Mine really isn't lapped as good as what my Father did..but it's pretty durn close..and has let me see just how good these barrels really are..BTW...I tried the different shoot 1x then clean for a long time too to save on the elbow grease...it helped a little..but not like lapping them does..

Lapping is just a normal routine for me..and it saves me a bunch of money by not having to waste 100-200 rounds..IMHO...my barrels are basically already broken in when I go to the range..so they will settle in very quick and usually won't vary in accuracy or velocity from then on..The one nice thing for me..usually the velocity is much higher for one of my lapped barrels than a non lapped barrel..I try to get the absolute best out of my rifles..and this is just one of the things I do to achieve it..

Mac

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2010, 02:47:21 PM »

UMMMM, Mac, could I send ya 25-26 barrels to fix fer me?

DP

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** April 02, 2010, 02:56:44 PM »

No use wearing your barrel out shooting grit thru it. Just shoot it.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #14 on:** April 02, 2010, 06:54:42 PM »

Quote from: dpe.ahoy on April 01, 2010, 05:02:13 PM

I prefer the old method, just shoot em. DP

I'm with him!

nova71 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 02, 2010, 08:00:09 PM »

A lot of good information and a lot of different ways to use it, I will probably use a little of all and see what works for me. after all the main thing is to get all the accuracy you can from the barrel. I have always just shot them and keep them fairly clean and it has worked for me, not pinpoint accuracy but good enough for tree rats. I have joined a gun club and they do a number of shooting matches from 50yd rimfire to 200yd varmint and I want to get all the help I can cause I don't shoot as good as I did 50 years ago

thanks a lot guys for the info, I will be using it and reading it a lot in the near future....... Larry

Flashole · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:13:22 AM »

OK guys for the one's that have polished / lapped the bore. I just did my brand new 45lc. used solvent first then JB cleaning paste then JB ultra fine finishing compound. Did just like JB says to. This is what I got. Ultra smooth groves and lands that still have a rough surface compared to the groves. I did the polish twice to see if it would improve. It did not and seems a little strange. I would think that since the lands would have the tighter fit they should get the most effect out of this.

Just like a million other shooters I took all my new fire arms ( 29 with out counting the handi )out of the box and shot them. This is the first time to polish any thing. Is there some thing here to be concerned about.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:22:05 AM »

I dont know how many years it would take stroking that lapp with ultra-fine to get any measurable dimensional change. BTW the 'lead lapp' will work ever so much better than a soft lapp. It will ride the high spots and concentrate the effect to work those down rather than conforming to the peaks and valleys of the bore.
Now that you have it all polished up, just go shoot it.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:33:58 AM »

Quote from: Flashole on April 04, 2010, 10:13:22 AM

OK guys for the one's that have polished / lapped the bore. I just did my brand new 45lc. used solvent first then JB cleaning paste then JB ultra fine finishing compound. Did just like JB says to. This is what I got. Ultra smooth groves and lands that still have a rough surface compared to the groves. I did the polish twice to see if it would improve. It did not and seems a little strange. I would think that since the lands would have the tighter fit they should get the most effect out of this.

Just like a million other shooters I took all my new fire arms ( 29 with out counting the handi )out of the box and shot them. This is the first time to polish any thing. Is there some thing here to be concerned about.

The finishing compound isn't quite abrasive as what Flitz is and doesn't seem to me anyway to smooth anything real easy..I've tried using it a few times and keep going back to the Flitz..I feel for tight spots in the bore with tight fitting dry patches,and then work that area more..Once I can push a very tight fitting patch through it with out any felt tight spot or snags coming off of it..I go shoot..You can try shooting it now if you want to..just to see how it does and how much copper you have left over after shooting..Big Bores usually aren't as bad as those of 35 cal and under are IMHO..The lands will smooth out quicker than the grooves will..so I wouldn't worry too much about them yet..You got the hard part done with the grooves..

Mac

mitchell · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2010, 07:36:37 AM »

dido what mac said all you do when "braking in a barrel" is getting rid of the ruff spots in the barrel either by shooting and cleaning over and over again or by hand lapping the barrel. to save time when i do it i chuck it up in my lathe and do a good 50 passes with flitz then check with a tight patch and do more if needed.

BTW i do this with every non custom barrel i buy handi to remington they all have ruff spots

i did a 243 handi for a friend just a few weeks ago it was shooting about 6 inch groups at 100 yards now after lapping only its just over a inch with factory ammo.and he already had about 100rds down range before he gave it to me.

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2010, 08:12:53 AM »

Good way to wear your barrel out with no benifit.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2010, 10:01:38 AM »

I tried that break-in stuff on a XP-100 once after about 50 rounds and 5-6 cleannings i just started shooting it . Out the box after sighting it in the first one I had shot a 1/2 group or better at 100 yards . The one i broke in would do the same . I believe more guns are ruined from cleaning than shooting .

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2010, 10:42:12 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on April 05, 2010, 10:01:38 AM

I believe more guns are ruined from cleaning than shooting.

No question about that. Any more than once a year is unnecessary and harmful.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2010, 10:52:19 AM »

Once a year ? really ? I better get busy . Got a 22 that hasn't seen a cleaning rod since the 70's and still shoots great !

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2010, 11:05:49 AM »

As long as accuracy is good there's no reason to clean a barrel when using modern ammo.

nova71 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2010, 11:34:01 AM »

I have an old Mossberg 22 that shoots sub 1" groups at 60 yards, .....until you clean it , then they are all over the place till it gets dirty again. I haven't cleaned it in years and don't plan to until the bullets quit coming out

Mac11700 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2010, 12:14:59 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on April 05, 2010, 11:05:49 AM

As long as accuracy is good there's no reason to clean a barrel when using modern ammo.

Remind me not to buy any of your barrels Swampy..

Cleaning isn't the same as breaking in a barrel BTW..

Mac

Mac11700 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 05, 2010, 12:16:44 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on April 05, 2010, 10:42:12 AM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on April 05, 2010, 10:01:38 AM
I believe more guns are ruined from cleaning than shooting.

No question about that. Any more than once a year is unnecessary and harmful.

Bull

It's only harmful if not done properly..

Mac

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** April 05, 2010, 12:17:01 PM »

Both are unnecessary with modern ammo. They only reduce barrel life and do nothing to improve accuracy.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 05, 2010, 12:20:31 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on April 05, 2010, 12:17:01 PM

Both are unnecessary with modern ammo. They only reduce barrel life and do nothing to improve accuracy.

Again...BULL

Both are necessary especially if the bore is rough..otherwise condensation can form between the copper/lead and pit the barrel..

Mac