Resurrecting an 1851 Navy from the scrap heap...

[Uncle Howie]

Hello, all-

I've done a little bit of cap 'n ball shooting, but only with a stainless ROA and a North American Arms Companion, also stainless. As you can see, I'm a stickler for historic accuracy!

I recently traded my way into what I think is an 1851 Confederate Navy by Pietta. It's in a sorry state, and I got it with full knowledge of that. I hope to resurrect it and shoot it, but it might end up as a wall hanger. I'm OK with either one, but obviously I'd like to have a shooter if possible.

Scary story: the barrel/cylinder gap seems to be rusted shut, and I think the cylinder is probably rusted to the base pin. I can pull the hammer back just a little, but it won't go to half-cock. The overall condition of the finish is surprisingly good, considering its current state. The previous owner claimed that one could put the hammer at half-cock and rotate the cylinder in the recent past.

Horror story: the previous owner loaded it with Pyrodex, then round balls. He got scared of it somewhere along the line, and never capped or shot it. A "gunsmith" allegedly told him the way to make it safe was to pour water down the nipples from the rear, to "deactivate" the Pyrodex. I suspect the rest of the instructions were to pull the cylider, pull the nipples, dump the powder, push out the balls. The only part that got done was to pour water into the nipples, and let it sit.    

I've put a liberal amount of Kroil on the base pin, nipples, on top of the balls, and in through the muzzle. I've let it sit in different positions to encourage the penetration of the Kroil into various areas. Not surprisingly, the Kroil came leaking out of the rusted barrel/cylinder gap, which I actually viewed as a good thing. I tapped the cylinder with a rubber mallet, and have let things sit/soak for a couple of days.

The barrel retainer wedge is loose, but just about every screw head has been mildly buggered. I'm the third owner. Either the firest owner was big on disassembly/cleaning using ill-fitted screwdrivers, or there has been a chain of Bubbas working on this thing...

The options I'm considering are total submersion in solvent to free rusted parts, and using heat and/or freezing to try to loosen things up. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

No, it was NOT me who filled the nipples with water... I swear!

[Flint]

Give it a bath for a day in penetrating oil like Kroil or WD-40.  If you can remove the wedge and jack the barrel off with the loading lever, you will probably be able to remove the cylinder.  If not, totally disassemble it and get the bolt out of the cylinder notch so it can move forward.  Pyrodex is corrosive.  The gun would have been fine loaded and uncapped, the water would do the damage with Pyrodex in there.  It might need a new cylinder, hopefully the bore may be OK, or at least serviceable.

As you are calling it a Confederate Navy, I presume it has a brass frame.  If it hasn't been fired much, that might be alright as long as the arbor pin is tight and not eaten away at the gap.

Pettifogger may have some advice.

[Uncle Howie]

Flint-

Thanks for the help. I'll keep plugging away.

It has a brass frame and octagonal barrel. It is identical to this one, as far as I can tell:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat20720-cat20817&id=0006186210086a&navCount=3&podId=0006186&parentId=cat20817&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IA&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20817&hasJS=true

[AtlLaw]

Give it a bath for a day in penetrating oil like Kroil

This was my first thought.   Maybe more then a day though.   

[Uncle Howie]

Success, Part I

I couldn't stand this much longer. As Neil Young says, "Rust Never Sleeps," so I worked on the revolver a little tonight. I knew things weren't going to get better on their own!

I disassembled what I could, removing grip frame, hammer and trigger pivots, etc. I pulled the guts out (technical term).

I gave it a little more Kroil around the base pin, plus a little tapping from a nylon hammer. I borrowed Flint's trick of using the loading lever as a fulcrum, and the cylinder gave about a quarter inch immediately. A little twisting/pulling, and she came right off!

Bad news at this point: lots of buggered screws, and some pretty serious-looking corrosion on the base pin. I'm a little concerned about what I'm going to find when I get the nipples out and the cylinder unloaded. The chambers might be in rough shape.

Good news at this point: lots of parts that look like they're in very good shape. Bore looks quite good. VTI sells screws...

Next step: find the appropriate nipple wrench, and work on the nipples.

Worst case scenario: I've got a project to play around with "antiquing" a wall hanger. I don't think it will come to that.

[Cowpox]

Wow ! 

A "gunsmith" told him to deactivate the charge with water ?  Why not oil, which would do a better job, and not cause the corrosion ?

In my limited experience with Pyrodex, I found it to be very similar to real black, as far as being hydroscopic and corrosive.

The cylinder walls on these revolvers are very thin, and it wouldn't take very much pitting to destroy their integrity.  I would take Flint's advice, and get another cylinder, as firing that one could well result in hot gasses punching through to adjoining chambers.  At least, do a very thorough inspection to make sure the one you have isn't pitted too bad.

If you watch the online gun auctions (Gunbroker, auctionarms, ect.)  cylinders are usually listed. 

Make sure they are stated to be from Pietta guns, as parts don't seem to interchange between my Piettas and Ubertis very well.

The gun on your dixie link is a 44 cal, and as luck would have it, there is a 44 cal. barrel and cylinder listed on Gunbroker right now, that closes in a couple days, and last time I looked, it was at about 30 bucks. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=163081750

No way of knowing for sure who made early Navy Arms guns, but I believe the current ones are made by Pietta.   If they go cheap, you may want to take a chance on them.  Your loading lever and barrel wedge should fit.


Otherwise, just watch once or twice a week, and an appropriate caliber cylinder for a Pietta 1851 should turn up before long.

[Cowpox]

Disregard that link for the barrel and cylinder !   I just looked at it again, and the cylinder is not rebated, so either he is wrong in saying it will fit an 1851, or it is .36 caliber, not 44 ?

[Uncle Howie]

UPDATE: I bought a crappy nipple wrench locally, and I think all the nipples should come out just fine.

I would have them all out, except my brand new nipple wrench went downhill on the first nipple, then self-destructed when unscrewing the second nipple. The nipples weren't seized. In fact, I wouldn't even say they were excessively tight.

I thought to myself, "Cheap Taiwan crap!"  I read the package. Lo and behold... TAIWAN!

The wrench is from "Traditions," and is all that is readily available locally. It's the standard "T" style wrench with a nipple pick in the end, under a knurled cap. I'll have to hunt up a quality wrench from a catalog somewhere, preferably US-made.

Does anybody have a recommendation for a quality nipple wrench for this revolver? What are your favorite brand style nipple wrenches? Disregard, I just used the "Search" function!

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on this. I think I'm going to have a shooter, not a wall hanger!

[trainsteeter]

Many folks might say you wasted a lot of time on this project but it seems to me you are learning quite a bit about guns and gunsmithing, we have to start somewhere. stay with it.