.357 mag versus .45 acp Recoil?

[photobear]

I'm trying to decide between a Sig 250 and a Ruger SP101 (yes, I know they're two entirely different animals!) Which would have the greater recoil...a .357mag in a 27 ounce Ruger SP101 or a .45acp in a 29 ounce Sig 250? I'll test them both eventually, I just though some of you might have shot both calibers and can give me some opinions.

Thanks.

[Dee]

In shooting the 45acp, you will find that it has way less recoil, "IF" your shooting it in a "revolver". With the slide cycle, and slamming back into battery is a "perceived" recoil. As far as dependable one shot stopping power, NOTHING surpasses the 125 grain jacketed hollow point out of a 357mag revolver.
It has been king of the one shot stopping caliber in law enforcement gunfights since the FBI started keeping statistics back in the 60s, and is still the king.
I used the 357 magnum first, and then later the 45acp in two separate fights, one in 1978 and one in 1979. I obviously won both, but the 357 magnum was far more efficient, and would have done better in the second than the 45acp. After the second fight, I went back to the 357 mag.
I, in 20 years of L.E. experimented with all law enforcement rounds, except the 41 magnum. The 44 magnum was too much, and the 9mm was way too little. At 60 years old, I am carrying ole reliable. A Smith Model 60, loaded with 125 grain jacketed hollow points in 357 magnum.
I think it is all about mental comfort, unless you have the real world test performed, and then you know what works best for you.

[Badnews Bob]

I shoot both and the .357 has a snappier recoil, I feel the .45 is more of a shove. When I grab a pistol thou it is usually the .357, I trust it 100%.

[jpred1]

I just bought a new sig in 45 and I really cannot feel any recoil until the last shot, when the slide stays open and the clip is emptied( gun lighted up) .My fatherinlaw has a S&W 357. It has more felt recoil to me.As for as stopping power, if the blast of either doesnt deter whomever your shooting at , Im sure either would do the job. With the new bullets out , I cannot see someone not getting a hit by a sledge hammer effect with the .45 or 357.

[buck460XVR]

   
.357 mag versus .45 acp Recoil?

Kinda like askin' who kisses better, blonds or redheads. Type of ammo and how the gun/grips fit your hand has as much bearing on felt recoil as caliber when it comes to those two. I have both calibers and shoot both regularly, IMHO, the little bit of  difference in recoil  is not worth worrying about when shot with standard factory loads.

[SHOOTALL]

I'll take the redhead and the SP-101 everytime both are know to be the best in class every time !

YEA YEA YEA wife has redish hair and i own an SP-101 , so what ?

[mcwoodduck]

In shooting the 45acp, you will find that it has way less recoil, "IF" your shooting it in a "revolver". With the slide cycle, and slamming back into battery is a "perceived" recoil. As far as dependable one shot stopping power, NOTHING surpasses the 125 grain jacketed hollow point out of a 357mag revolver.
It has been king of the one shot stopping caliber in law enforcement gunfights since the FBI started keeping statistics back in the 60s, and is still the king.
I used the 357 magnum first, and then later the 45acp in two separate fights, one in 1978 and one in 1979. I obviously won both, but the 357 magnum was far more efficient, and would have done better in the second than the 45acp. After the second fight, I went back to the 357 mag.
I, in 20 years of L.E. experimented with all law enforcement rounds, except the 41 magnum. The 44 magnum was too much, and the 9mm was way too little. At 60 years old, I am carrying ole reliable. A Smith Model 60, loaded with 125 grain jacketed hollow points in 357 magnum.
I think it is all about mental comfort, unless you have the real world test performed, and then you know what works best for you.

+1
I have a Colt 1917 and a S&W 28.  One is 5" the other 4" both wear similar stocks and weigh about the same.
The 45ACP  with 230 grain ball is easy to shoot with standard loads and the 357 mag with 125 JHP defense loads (1200 FPS) are about the same.
When you step up to the Hot 125 Semi Jacketed Hollow point still loaded by Remington (the 1400 FPS +) it is a little warmer and when shooting hunting loads of 158 grain JSP you know you shot a hunting round.

[Dee]

The difference I found in both as a fighting round is power. If cover is an automobile, or anything penetrable, for your opponent a 357 magnum is what I want. I have had it both ways, and there is really no comparison in that regard. The opponent is just as concerned about taking a hit as you are, and neither of mine posed for the shot.

[drdougrx]

So Dee...seriously...you have the experience...do you think the 45acp is as good as we think and that the 125gr in the 357 is just better??  Or is the 45acp not as good as we think?

[SHOOTALL]

You can read alot about the 45 . In combat it has a great reputation . I always wonder though , when on street preformance is stated in  terms of one shot stops . On the street the 357 so far wins by a good margin . In combat is the 45 shot more than once at a target ? Could this be part of the difference ? In battle much more 45 ACP was fired out of thompsons and grease guns with great effect , did this help form its reputation ? Bullet construction and shape play no small part it the preformance of both also. That is why the 357 sig is not the 357 S&W . But the idea to make a 357 auto is proof of the 357 S&W's worth and proven record . Can't beat um join um sort of.
 In reality no matter the gun you have don't stop shooting until the reason you started shooting in the first place is reason no more .

[Dee]

So Dee...seriously...you have the experience...do you think the 45acp is as good as we think and that the 125gr in the 357 is just better??  Or is the 45acp not as good as we think?

Honestly drdoug, I believe the 357 mag (not the 357sig) is the best of both worlds. In a stand up fight with no cover, the 45acp, or the 40 Smith are excellent rounds, but honestly neither will do anything the 357 magnum can't do, and MAYBE do it better. In a fight where cover is involved that is just barely cover, and more concealment, such as cars, penetrable walls, doors ect. the 357 magnum is far ahead.
Many base their choice on perceived firepower, and magazine capacity is their concern. I personally intend to avoid a fight if I can, and if I can't then most likely it will be over within 4 or 5 rounds, and in close, like in the average police fight, where 7 or 8 rounds TOTAL are fired by both the officer AND the perp COMBINED, and the distance is under 10 feet. Forget the Hollywood shootout.
When the double tap came out in training folks had been shooting each other successfully for a couple hundred years, and most don't realize it but, the double tap was put in place when the 9mm started entering police holsters. It had early on PROVEN, it was not a reliable stopper. I'm not against the double tap, I'm just sayin if you are afraid you caliber is so anemic you have to shot him twice perhaps you need to rethink your choice.
A 45acp ball and other configurations will reliably glance off many car windshields. I saw two bounce off a 78 Buick merely cracking the windshield and pitting it. A 357 mag will come out the back window unless it hits something else in between.
Everyone has to decide for themselves but, I personally want the power, and the statically proven one shot stopping power. It's really a personal choice, but for me, I hope I never fire another shot in anger, but I hope he misses, and it's a minor caliber he's shooting like the 9. But that's just me.
And before anyone jumps on the new super duper computer designed bullet of today? I don't care. A hole is a hole, and hollow points are totally reliant on body fluids to provide the hydraulics to make them work. I don't want to debate that, I just answered drdoug's question.

[teamnelson]

Take that pistol out to a silhouette range ... my "coach" was retired Navy shooting team, retired Border Patrol shooting team, International Class IHMSA. And he showed me how to do things with a .22, .357 and .44 I never dreamed possible. Things I've tried with a .380, 9mm, .40S&W, and a .45ACP with mixed results. At 50yds, the 125gr JHP (Rem) is delivering 333, the 230gr JHP (Rem) is about the same. But the .45 is losing altitude, and falls off quick after that, while the .357 is still reaching for a little more. I like a little more. There's a few loads in .38spl with a 158gr bullet that'll consistently drop steel plates at 100yds; not bad on recoil. Shooting like that will give you confidence. FWIW, the only semiauto I've kept is a 1911 in .45, but I have a small herd of .357s.

Apart from caliber and recoil, the SP101 is bank vault strong, which is another key factor to consider if you're going to rely on it for your life.

[photobear]

While I still haven't done the range time yet, I went and handled (and dry fired) both the Sig 250 and the SP101 today. What can I say....I fell in love with the Ruger! It felt great, had great balance, and the trigger was relatively smooth although just a tad on the heavy side. With a trigger job to take off a pound or too I think it will be perfect. Simple, reliable, built like a tank, I won't have to worry about about any jams or failures to feed, and if I DO find the .357 is a bit too much for me to control, I still have the option of shooting +P .38spcl.

Thanks all for your opinions.

[williamlayton]

I like a semi-auto platform--just my cup of tea.
A semi recoils less---too me---than a revolver and I like the recovery better.
I know what Dee is saying and, he is correct, using his rationial.
I like the .45 a lot and it produces the effect/affect I want it to produce in a close encounter, situation.
If i have to shoot thru a door, I want penetration.
I can achieve the same, and better, if I want to handload it, with a 9x23--perhaps, a .38 Super, handloaded--in a semi platform.
In a combat/battle/street fight, things are a little different.
A semi---in my mind---is a better combat gun on a number of different levels.
Is one wrong and the other right? In our mind we are.
I still prefer the .45----and you can get a .45 that shoots as fast as a .357---now, that does recoil.
Blessings 

[NickSS]

I have an SP101 and several 45 autos (though not a sig) and my SP 101 has more felt recoil to answer your question.  My Ruger is lighter and far easier to carry all day than any of my 45 autos so that's what I carry mostly.

[Dand]

I'm glad there is so much support for the 101 - it has been my choice for years. Wide variety of ammo is a real advantage. I took some fine stones and emory paper to the sharp edges of my 101 then put on a pair of Crimson trace hard polymer grips. It fits my smallish hand very well. I usually carry medium level home loads with the Remington 140 sjhp. If I'm concerned about big animals I may carry Federal sp 158 full power or Corbon 180 hard cast. The one concern I have is the 5 shots. So far have never needed to use it and truth be told I don't carry a lot.

Dee's comments make me wonder if I should go for the 125 loads. Real experience is worth considering.

[southernutah]

I really think you should get a 9mm, 40 S&W, and at least 1 1911 in 45. then get at least 1 357, a 41 mag and 44. Then try to figure out what to take each time you go out. 

[Ak.Hiker]

One way to tame the recoil of the 357 Magnum  is by switching the grips to the Hogue Monogrips. They really work well for me when shooting heavy loads in my SP 101. For me the full power 125 grain loads have more felt recoil than any thing I have fired out of my 45 ACP. Even the 22.5 oz. Glock 36 has less recoil than a hot 357 magnum load in the 27 oz. SP 101. I do fnd myself packing the 357 Magnum quite a bit. It is a very handy gun. In a Simply Rugged high riding pancake holster it is just about the perfect combination. Along with my Glock 29 10mm but this is not about the 10mm. As far as loads it really would be hard to find a better SD load than the Federal 125 grain JHP. The guys that love all of the high tech loads on the market usually do not have much to say about this one. It along with similar loads by Remington and Winchester have done their job for many years. Another nice thing about the 357 Magnum is the ability to reduce recoil with still effective loads like the medium power Remington 125 grain Golden Saber. I have never been one to mess with the trigger on my Rugers. I like the fact that they always go bang when I pull the trigger. To each his own on that one.   

[S.B.]

Seriously, if you're concern about recoil, stay with smaller caliber guns for a while. Don't rush into bigger stuff until recoil becomes unnoticable while shooting.
Steve

[Dand]

SB and that's the beauty of the 357. Practice with 38s or 357 loaded to 38 levels. I have used quite a few of the Speer 38 self defense loaded with their 130 or 135 gr gold dot bullet (don't remember exact wt now).

Ak Hiker, as far as stoning I meant the edges of the trigger, trigger guard and other exterior surfaces. On mine they seemed a bit sharp so I softened them a little. Also very lightly softened the checkering on the hammer spur as it was really sharp. Softening the edges reduced felt recoil effects very slightly. Now I don't mind a couple cylinders of the Fed full power 158s or cast core 180's in the 101 tho they do get my attention.

One other load I like and carry a bit is the Winchester 145 silvertips. Think I still have a couple boxes stashed away. These are what lead me to load the 140 gr Rem hollow points - nice balance of wt and power I think.

[SHOOTALL]

To compare the two rounds as to recoil then they would have to be shot in like or same guns . A S&W n frame in 357 and 45acp would be a good way to compare . I have had both and really didn't notice the big difference . Now if you compare guns that is a different story. The 357 can be put in a smaller package . I have one that is 12 ozs. I shoot 125 gr JHP's in it . I really don't see the recoil as that bad for an average man . I took the rubber grips off and put on SS thin wooden grips so i feel i get all the kick she has to give and still don't see it as a beast . Guess the same who thought the 44 mag was an arm breaker puts out the hype on the S&W 340's also. I have said it before - if you expect to not feel uncomfortable recoil on your end why expect the bullet hitting on the other end to hit like a mac truck ?

[dogngun]

Depends what you are shooting it out of - in a light alloy frame revolver or even a K frame Smith - a .357 can be a tough gun to shoot and certainly not fun. Makes a .45 look like a day at the beach. I have and sometimes carry several .45 ACP 1911's, and I have been shooting them since the 1970's, but I make sure the gun fits my  hand well - especially the "compact" version which is my main carry. I use an all steel ARMSCOR made Charles Daly, which fits my grip better than any other small .45 I tried.
For .357, an excellent all around caliber, I use an old S&W Highway Patrolman - I don't care to shoot a magnum load in anything lighter, and these old guns are very smooth and accurate...this goes with me when I'm in the woods.

If you are looking for "one best gun", I'd go with a solid .357 becasue of the versatility of it, and look for an old 4" Security Six Ruger for about $300 or so.

Hard combination to beat.

mark

[the jigger]

photobear,
you didn't state your primary use. if it is for "carry" recoil from either in a compact will be oppressive
until you have practiced enough to master the weapon. once you master a compact you won't notice recoil.
when I say master I mean shoot accurately and consistantly.
I shoot both and use both for home defence. None of my home defence weapons are compacts,
my carry piece is a compact 45acp. it is the weapon that I shoot the most because I feel the need to remain
accurate and consistant with a compact. my wife and I shoot once a week.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!!

[SHOOTALL]

I have a 340 PD and can hit as well with it as any j frame . My group Da at 7 yards is about 2 inches with full house loads 125 gr JHP . I have to say i notice recoil and have to control the desire to jerk the trigger . My hand will hurt for some time after shooting as few as 10-15 rounds . The gun is a beast ! But the way i see it is if it hurts me that much then the bad guy will hurt more and stop hurtinng me .

[S.B.]

SHOOTALL, how do you tell powder burns from hits at 7 yards? HEHEHE, just funnin'
Steve

[SHOOTALL]

With some ammo its hard , really . I pratice at that distance because it seems like a likely distance . I also shoot it at 15 yards but to be honest with my older eyes 3.5 inches is good on a good day . At 25 yards i will seek cover if i can .
But it amuses me that folks want a gun to flip the bad guy backwards but be a powder puff on their end

[RaySendero]

I'm trying to decide between a Sig 250 and a Ruger SP101 (yes, I know they're two entirely different animals!) Which would have the greater recoil...a .357mag in a 27 ounce Ruger SP101 or a .45acp in a 29 ounce Sig 250? I'll test them both eventually, I just though some of you might have shot both calibers and can give me some opinions.

Thanks.

photobear,


I do not have any experience with either of the 2 handguns you mention.  I do have experience with a 6" barrel Ruger GP-100 in 357 mag and a 5" barrel 1911 type Kimber in 45 acp.

Even though the GP-110 is heavier I percieve it to recoil more with 158 grain loads than the 5" 1911 with 230 grain loads.  I could run you some recoil numbers if you want on those 2 handguns you mentioned, if you'll give me the barrel length and the weight of each.

[williamlayton]

Shootall makes a good point.
There are diffent considerations to be made.
If I was shooting CAS or IDPA I would be concerned with recoil because time is of essence in the "Games."
Shooting for practice is somewhat the same---comfort becomes a concern for me.
NOW, there are some weapons in some platforms that I just don't want too test the waters with.
Concerning what I consider too be fair and balanced, I like size over speed, in most instances.
I must also admit too being/becoming hypocritical about this, the older I get.
Perfect balance too me is the .45 in a semi platform.
A bad hit by the .45 will overcome more than the .357 or 9x23 can.
Maybe, the older I get, the more I ought too consider a double stacked .45 platform.
Whatever your personal choice--just make sure it is with you
Blessings

[Dee]

A bad hit by the .45 will overcome more than the .357 or 9x23 can.
Blessings

I have used both the 45acp and the 357 mag in the real world, and the real world is opposite of this statement. In ones mind it might seem so, but in actual police shootings, the 45 came in at best, second place. The FBI stats of round performance in officer shootings since the 1960s has shown that the 357mag was and is the best performer when the 125 grain jacketed hollow point was used, most every time out distancing the 45acp in one shot stopping an opponent. Big is good, but not best in this case. I like the the 45acp, and carried it for years, but facts is facts. If it is one's favorite then it is a good choice, but head to head it is not the winner.
The 9mm however, is in last place for obvious reasons, and no, I don't want to argue with anyone on that point, if you like it, carry it.

[photobear]

Thanks, all. Decided to stay with my first choice, a .357mag revolver. I'll shoot .38sp +P most of time, but will practice with .357 as well, and use the .357 rounds for carry.