sizing lube cleaning

[simplicity]

I've been doing large lots of 223 for my ar (500 rounds) on my dillon 450 and I've been using the hornady one shot lube. I usually wipe the sizing lube off individually from each case when finished. My question if there is a way, is there any way to clean the loaded rounds in a bunch to once? the only thing that is coming to my mind is to put them back in the tumbler but to my way of thinking. I think the vibration of the tumbler would break down the powder in the cases and make pressure spikes. Just wondering if anyone out there had any tricks they could pass on, on how to clean a bunch of rounds to once like I satated earlier. I know i could clean the cases in the tumbler after resizing but that would make my proccess even longer. Or is there a spray on lube that doesn't need to be wiped off? Any tricks are more then welcome to be heard.

[Richard P]

  Regarding the loaded ammo in a tumbler : Here is your chance to play ''myth buster''.  I dont see how a round that is loaded to full density could vibrate the powder to destruction; but, load a round with 75% density and leave it in your tumbler until you get about a week's worth of time on it.  Pull the bullet and report your findings.  Load a round with 100% density and do the same.  Would there be any deterioration on a round loaded with a spherical powder ?  rp

[simplicity]

Good idea I will i see what your saying but what I was refering to was if powder rubbing together would make well dust and there for create more surface area which will make the powder burn faster the more surface area a fuel has the faster it'll burn. All the powders are all rated on how fast they burn by their surface area. I will give it a try with a round to see what the accual out come will be and I'll post what I find. My loads are about 90-95% density. When i talked of using the tumbler I was only thinking about 20 minutes per load. I would like to know how the big companys do it whether it be a chemical bath or what.

[Larry Gibson]

I routinely tumble/vibrate loaded ammo to remove the case lube.  I use pitch free saw dust (make it myself with chain saw and dry piece of wood, last a long time). 15 - 20 minutes cleans the case off nicely. 

As to breaking down the powder;  many have cryed the sky is falling as to the "dangers" of this.  However, if you have any experience on track vehicles in the military you know what vibration is.  Ammuntion is routinely carried in all sorts of manner on those vehicles for days, weeks and months at a time.  If the vibration was going to "break down" the powder the military would know about it.  There isn't a problem.  Many reloaders have also conducted tests concerting powder break down by tumbling/vibrating loaded ammo for hours and then chronographing the ammo before and after.  There was no indication of powder break down or pressure spiking. 

I have an Oehler M43 PBL which tests pressure and allows me to "see" (via the time pressure curve) any spikes or abnormalities in pressure.  I have tumbled and vibrated (I have both machines) 7.62 NATO ammuntion (US M118SB and M852) with both ball and extruded powder for 48 hours.  It was very clean and shiney BTW!   I pulled 5 bullets of each load and compared the powder under magnification with that of powder from non tumble/vibrated rounds.  There was no discernable "breakdown".  I then fired 10 round strings of "before" and "after"  In my test bolt action .308W using the M43 to measure pressure and velocity.  There was no discernable difference in either the pressure or the velocity.

Like I said I routinely tumble/vibrate loaded ammuntion to remove the lube.  However, I mostly prefer to inspect rifle cases such as 5.56, 7.62, 30-06 and 8x57 cases and clean the primer pocket prior to loading.  So I will FL size, clean the lube off by tumble/vibrating in the saw dust, inspect and then load them on my 550B. I use a NC die in station one to give consitency in press operation and to iron out any dings that may have occured between FL sizing and loading.  That works better for me and I have a higher confidence in the quality of the ammo that way as I've inspected the case, cleaned the primer pocket and know there isn't any debri in the case or flash hole.  Just the technique I use for better quality ammo.

Larry Gibson

[SHOOTALL]

I have a friend who tumbles all his finished ammo . And if he finds old loaded rounds he does those also. He does all his ammo . I have had loaded rounds get in the tumbler from time to time - handgun , rifle and shotgun . None were a problem . Some were factory others hand loads . I really don't see the issure . If the round was locked in a fixture and shaken maybe but in reality the round floats in media . The round is the heavy weight so the media would flow around it more than the round shaking alot. Seems it is riding on a cushion . I would think ammo in military service would see far more vibration , banging and shaking .

[huntducks]

Listen to what Larry Gibson says.

I have done extensive testing on this also, I used a 30-06 with 3 different powders I viberated for 24 hrs 36 hrs and 48 hrs 10 of each pulled the bullets there was NO POWDER BRAKE DOWN NO POWDER RESIDUE every round fired was with in 23 fps or less of each other.

I know it will not convince everyone as some just want to beleave all the BS theroy they read on the interNUT.

If you stop and think about it, I travel about 1200 mi one way to hunt Elk, Antelope and Deer almost every year add another 1500 to hunt P-dogs all different type of roads from paved to rut torn up dirt that would be worst then 15 min in a cleaner.

They could be no one harder on ammo then the military just traveling from LC armory to the ME then hundreds of miles on beater dirt roads.

[necchi]

I just simplify the whole thing,

 I wash the brass after sizing, before loading. Simple, I don't need to worry about any lube getting in my seating die, on my fingers or bullets. My finished round is clean and dry.
 All ya gotta do is plan ahead a bit, I wait till I have a bunch to process, tumble, de-cap and size. Then put'm all in a cake pan, hot water and a little dish soap, slosh and rinse. The tuff part is waiting for'm ta dry, but if I plan ahead I can load'm the next day

[simplicity]

Hey thanks to everyone for chiming in, and thanks to all the ones who done some myth busting. Hopefully this thread will help out others in my same situation.

[LaOtto222]

necchi - that is basically how I do mine too; with RCBS 2 sizing lube which is water soluble.... and I use a single stage press. These guys are talking about lubing up the case and doing the whole loading process in a few strokes - so I have no experience doing that. While I think the RCBS is a very good case lube, I do want to make sure it is off the cases BEFORE loading. When I have left a little in the case mouth, it has a tendency to stick powder on the inside of the case mouth, and I certainly do not like that thought.

As far as vibrating the case - the conventional wisdom is that the powder coating will break down when vibrated, thus changing the burning characteristics. Personally - I would think it would take a lot of vibrating to do this. To me, gun powder seems sort of smooth, slippery and light for volume. I would think that these are factors that would not break down the surface of the powder. If the powder is compressed, I would think it would even less prone to break down. I have no experience what so ever with this, since I do all my tumbling/vibrating/cleaning before the load process.

[SHOOTALL]

With the RCBS lube and the Lyman spray just wipe with a damp cloth and load .

[Lloyd Smale]

my experiences miror larrys. Like him ive actually ran them accross a chorno to check to see if there was a differnce and never detected even a small one. I wouldnt recomend you tumble them overnight but an hour to clean off one shot isnt going to hurt a thing

[Clodhopper]

I have a Dillon 550 and load for 308 and 223 (among other things).  I use the process that Larry does above by sizing my cases using a single stage press and then inspect, trim, clean primer pockets, etc.  During this process I clean the lube off with a spin in a alcohol soaked rag.  Makes me feel better to look the cases over after full length sizing!  I don't think that vibrating loaded rounds would hurt for an hour or so to remove case lube, though.  Back in my ordnance testing days, we used to vibrate cases to get consistant loading with large propellant grains (120mm etc. with grains the diameter of your finger).  This was a common practice and never caused any adverse problems.