Is it time to get rid of Medicare?

[BBF]

I'm guessing the money blown on a 40' RV when you're 65 could cover a lot of meds when you're 85. I grew up on the east side of Phoenix watching the snow birds spend money like college kids on spring break, with the same disregard for the long term, and on the same things ...

85 !!??  Not many get that far and  if you got the "Bread" it is yours to spend.

OF's like myself in the northern latitudes just are fed up with 4+month of winter and crappy summers. I don't need a 40 foot RV when a 20 something will do. Somewhere along your life the chances of meeting up with Mr. Alzheimer or Uncle Dementia are getting better and better and then there is Auntie Cancer.

IMO enjoy your retirement, spend what you have and can, It cuts down the fighting between the beneficiaries of your estate.

[bearmgc]

First, how is it that almost 700,000 people filed for unemployment last month, and we can't get enough nurses and CNAs where I live?   2/3's of Nurses in Wyoming are over the age of 45, and will probably work until their late 60's or even 70 y/o. Poll taken revealed that older nurses see what will happen if they retire at 62-65. Their patients will receive worse care than what nurses right now are able to give them. That is the primary reason why nurses are working later in life. They take responsibility, in spite of the increased risk of injury and legal risks on their licences because of dangerous working conditions, strings of 12hr night shifts and overtime, and worker shortages. Why am I talking about this? Because there is no one to follow behind us. Why won't people go into healthcare anymore? What will probably happen, as in the past, is that people will return to old trational kinds of medicine, and go to Dr's who aren't "on the books", and barter for their care. Nurse midwives will once again become popular, and nurses may become more practitioners in their communities in the mountain west. In the Army, I sutured more than my share of lacerations while on ER duty. Ending Medicare will drive many Drs away from practicing on the books and discorage others from going into medicine. The alternative, hopefully will be tolerable.

[teamnelson]

Yeah, right. seniors paying into the system had more trust than today's younger bunch. Today's younger bunch, want it and they want it now. They want guarrantees, yet feel no responsibility on their end. How many right now are sitting and waiting for a job to suit their fancy instead of going out and working anything they can? Heck milk unemployment for as long as they can. No solution can come from people who are self serving. Trust that seniors will probably be working past retirement, as well as caring for grandchildren, babysitting them, etc. Many younger folks are living in their parent's homes during this economic crisis, yet feel no compunction to give back. They just expect it.

The folks you are describing here are NOT in the 25% paying the taxes. You're right, no solution can come from the self serving, not matter what age they are. I would be hard pressed to accuse the tax payers of being self serving, especially when so many people rely on them to fund the programs.

[bearmgc]

Maybe another way to pay for programs and reduce the deficit, would be to cut  Federal pensions of all kinds by 75%, promised for those under 50 yrs of age currently employed, since the American people will be paying for that also. I mean we really should turn over every rock for solutions, not just handpick them.

[FourBee]

What did people do before Medicare? Do that.

I own land with abstracts that tells the transfer of property from way back.  Many of the folks with 10 to 40 acres gave their land to the doctor for payment in medical bills.
I was rushed to the hospital last month with severe chest pains.   Out the door in 3 days at $24,000.00 in which Medicare paid all but $1100.   That remainging amount was paid by my Insurance ~Mutual of Omaha.

[ironglow]

  I read one time that there is a psychological basis for the way people view such government programs as welfare, unemployment, medicaid and medicare. It is rooted deep in the psyche of the individual..a right-brain, left-brain thing. Although the writer claimed it is a male/female issue, I prefer to view it as a logical/emotional situation, since many women are logical and many men are emotional although generally it follows gender lines.

  The logical mind thinks "equity"   ...One should get out more or less what they put into something.

  The emotional mind thinks "equality"...everybody should draw from it equally, regardless what they put in..if they even did put in.

   In all walks of life we are faced with this age old dichotomy..logic vs emotion. In politics it is especially prevalent, with the logical mind drifting to the right and the emotional mind drifting leftward.
  That is why so often as a liberal starts to lose a debate, he/she resorts to name calling, such as "bigot", "racist","#$*&%^" or "*&#&^".
  In the end, debates are ultimately won or lost by presenting a LOGICAL position. Thus, debating with a liberal; is like deuling with an unarmed person.

[1marty]

I love the Repubic senators who are against any healthcare. Meanwhile these bums get free healthcare and when they are out of the senate they get a super diamond studded healthcare plan until they drop dead. I paid for medicare and when I retire-which is soon-I expect to get what I paid for. 

[powderman]

I paid for medicare and when I retire-which is soon-I expect to get what I paid for.  

Good luck with that. My health forced me to retire at 62. I paid into that program for 45 years, but can get no health coverage til I'm 65, in 3 years, if I live that long. POWDERMAN.  

[skarke]

Guys, if anyone really believes that the Medicare of our parents will be there for our generation (<55yo), then, well, I'm speechless.  I hate to break it to you, but what we will be getting will be very similar to what current high volume MCaid offices deliver.

1.  get in line
2.  Shut up
3.  You are stupid, don't ask questions
4.  You don't need a specialist, because if I refer you to one, then my contract states that my bonus will be reduced

I think that I've said this before, but my mother always said that, "you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip".  She was right, you can't get something for nothing, nor can you saddle 25% of the population with the cost of healthcare for an entire nation.

No, I expect to hear from the "end of life counselor" the second I am no longer paying taxes, but costing the People's Republik of Amerika healthcare bucks instead.

I work in this type of practice, and this is reality, folks.  Wake up and smell the coffee.

[skarke]

BTW, if any of our kids are planning on going into medical practice (MD, DO), and borrowing the money to complete their education, then please, GET THEM TO A MATH TUTOR IMMEDIATELY, because they can't add.

Why go to school to age 31 or 32, acquire more than $100,000 in debt, subject yourself to horrible working conditions under intense government scrutiny, just to net $125,000 best case scenario for PC?

[FourBee]

Posted by: skarke  I work in this type of practice, and this is reality, folks.  Wake up and smell the coffee.

skarke;  good post.    What do we do then ?    - - PRAY - -   The call is going forth for all men, everywhere, to pray.  To pray for their substance, and pray for their health, and pray for their nation.   The hope of our nation critically hangs on this calling.

[BBF]

TM7
I'm sitting here dumbfounded after reading your post, mostly because it rings so true.
Some time ago when Dobbs was still on CNN he ran a series of short info vids on other countries HC systems. Pro cons, problems, cost etc.
Surely there has to be something simple and workable that would appeal to the people in the US including those that wish to opt out and do on their own.  

[littlecanoe]

In converting from out system to a totally socialized system we have to consider the effects of the masses.  Based on personal experience as a health care provider I'm led to think that a large portion of our citizens have an attitude of being owed.  By giving healthcare to people with no cost to them there is a mentality of abuse that develops based on expectation. 

Expectation eventually becomes an attitude of deserving.  When one counts the cost of something he has a vested interest to protect that thing.  Those with expectation and attitudes of deserving have nothing, or usually have nothing vested in the process.   This is an entrance point for abuse. 

Example:  Hypochondriac who is always "sick" not feeling well.  Goes to the ER for what should be a routine visit to MD on Monday.  Doc treats, has to treat, because person can't be turned away, has to be treated.  Part of MD's approach is to treat as though he will be litigated against just in case he missed something and the Hypochondriac really was sick.  This is not a far fetched example but something that happens every day within our system by people who have no vested interested because it doesn't cost them anything.  They know that "the government", tax payers, will foot the bill one way or the other.

EVERYONE alive in America today will have to sacrifice a little or a lot if we are to right the ship.  The question is whether we have a mentality of expectation and deserving or a mentality for sacrifice for the good of our posterity. 

We know the wrongs, who has a good idea for a fix.

[teamnelson]

Lilcanoe, TM7, good points.

Hope is not a course of action. It is very powerful, but ultimately a decision will have to be made. My generation, and all those after me, will never be able to "enjoy" retirement the way many Americans do today. Not bitter - just reality. How did we get here? Whose fault is it? Is it fair?

Why should I expect fair? Why should anyone? You cannot make a human being do "fair"; It is against their nature. The eurosocialist model which claims to be fair is falling apart and polarizing the populace many of whom are taking supremacist or elitist positions. So much for legislating everyone to be good.

The problem is moral, cultural, not political or financial. So politics are not the solution.

[1marty]

I find it interesting the fat cats on wall street walked away with billions, our politicians take no responsibility and we're expected to sacrifice, bail them out and do without!!

[powderman]

I find it interesting the fat cats on wall street walked away with billions, our politicians take no responsibility and we're expected to sacrifice, bail them out and do without!!

YEP, even paid themselves huge bonuses for their failures. POWDERMAN. 

[bearmgc]

I find it interesting the fat cats on wall street walked away with billions, our politicians take no responsibility and we're expected to sacrifice, bail them out and do without!!

Exactly. Consider that an emotional response. Those who have a Federal safety net of some sort, of course will tell the rest of us to make sacrifices, in spite of the 401K plans of many retirees going flat busted. I guess its our fault for actually believing in 401K plans too. Logic? Haven't heard much here. Just tired old rhetoric from those with agenda, mainly, which ultimately reads, lucky us, sucky you.

[skarke]

You know, our conversation has gotten away from the original post, so here's a diversionary thought.

My dad was a machinist.  He made a good living, not great.  He had 5 kids.  And even he tithed 10, saved 10, and we lived on the rest.  We bought a new car every 8 years or so, and he drove the old one.  We didn't have much, but my mom stayed home, and we scratched by on a house with sufficiency and love.

I am a sole bread-winner.  Our newest car is a 2005 Cobalt.  Mine is a 99 F 150.  I save 18%, and should be tithing.  We still give a whole lot.  Our kids wear Walmart and Target clothes, and we don't have consumer debt.

That is so we can pay our freaking obligations to the doctors, contractors, auto repairmen, and everybody else that provides my family service, including our insurance man, cash.

We forego the new Z71 Pickup, the gozillion dollar cable package, and all of the other new eye candy that I so often see the very same people, who claim that they are unable to afford insurance, using and driving.

Sell the $30K vehicle, say goodbye to cable, and quit eating out 5 nights per week, and there will be plenty there for the $500 per month health package.

Yes, I know, for the 15 million or so that have situations where they just can't get coverage, then I'm willing to kick in a little to help a poor guy out.  Everybody else, grow up a little.

[magooch]

Soooo, do we keep Medicare, or throw it out and start all over?  I think it's going to be pretty hard to put that genie back in the bottle.  If the Dumocrats had any sense of proportion and priority, they would have fixed Medicare before they tried to change the entire health-care insurance system.  Of course that assumes that there is a fix for Medicare.

[BBF]

 
......................... and there will be plenty there for the $500 per month health package.

 
Are you serious?? Laying out 500 bucks a month for HC Insurance !
That is about all my wife and I have to buy the grocceries per month.

[dukkillr]

 
......................... and there will be plenty there for the $500 per month health package.

 
Are you serious?? Laying out 500 bucks a month for HC Insurance !
That is about all my wife and I have to buy the grocceries per month.

I've noticed this too... I'm younger and healthier than many of you, but I could buy my own health insurance x 4 if you just add our cable, internet, and cell phone bills together.  In law school I prepared tax returns for those making less than the poverty level so they could get their refunds.  I don't think a single one of them didn't have cable and a cell phone.  I suspect most didn't have health insurance.  Funny what people think is important.

[skarke]

We really don't have "health" insurance here in the US.  What we have is a system where a 3rd party sets up a health management account, the purpose being to create a large pool of money from a group, and dole the money out to pay for routine healthcare (checkups, testing, etc).

A true insurance would be a catastophic plan to cover serious illness (surgery, cancer, serious injury, etc).  The routine visit to "Ol' Bones" for our blood pressure pills would be paid like we do, say, groceries.

For $500, a family of 4 could get true insurance to cover the financially crippling diseases, including just about everything.

Yes, I know, for the 15 million or so that have situations where they just can't get coverage, then I'm willing to kick in a little to help a poor guy out.  Everybody else, grow up a little.

If a guy needs help, I'll try to be the first to offer it.  But, if a dude has a new car, but no insurance, then too bad, pay the doc with the new Dodge.

[1marty]

It is sort of humorous how we all attack each other for not saving and living high on the hog. My wife got no cost of living increase this year for social security disability and I work hard for every penny. Yet it burnt me up to write a check to the infernal revenue. My taxes go to bail out those poor suffering bankers at citibank, chase and goldman. I believe the government and bankers get a real laugh at us poor slobs.