Author Topic: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?  (Read 1619 times)

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Offline wreckhog

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Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« on: April 09, 2010, 07:24:20 AM »
Maybe it is just me, but the closest I come is a 1 shot group.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,199102.msg1099067820/boardseen.html#new

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 07:36:06 AM »
Wreckhog,

I can usually get 3 rounds at 100 yards to touch each other, shooting 12 ga. buckhammers. ;D  Helps when you are making 3/4" holes, but it don't look like no "cloverleaf".  Some of these are like 3/4" by 2" ovals. 

Best handi I have will get the center point of bullet impacts within about 1" @ 100 yds.  This is a 45 70, 22".   If two of the three holes actually touch each other I am very happy.

I know what you mean about the sub-MOA internet guns, but since most folks at my gun club leave their targets I can tell you nobody I know owns one of these "fine" weapons.

BB
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 07:42:46 AM »
Other than October, most guys at my club shoot AR's. Mag dumps, bump fire, etc. The targets in the garbage look like buckshot patterns. The exception is the occasional guy shooting exploding targets. You gotta hit those dead center.

Offline Daman

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 07:59:54 AM »
I have four guns that out of a locked down gun sled will shoot either one hole or one ragged hole at 100 yards consistently with handloads:

One hole - three shots
Remington 700 Bull Barrel 222 (I believe it is a custom barrel -- got it secondhand) with a 56mm Leupold target scope
Browning A-Bolt 243 with 50mm Leupold VX-III

(both have been glass bedded and are well taken care of)

One-ragged hole - three shots
Rossi 223 single shot with Konus 3-9X50 (don't ask me why it did it out of the box)
Remington Model 6 30-06 with old Weaver K-6

Now the one hole groupers have a lot of money in them for that accuracy, but the on-ragged hole shooters were just that way when I got them. The A-Bolt didn't need a whole lot other than a good scope and a bedding after break in. The 222 needed a lot of TLC with me and my smith.

PS

I do not target shoot. The 222 is my coyote rifle when I hunt. It is being replaced with a H&R 7-08 as soon as I work up loads for it and put a good scope on it.

Daman
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I thank God everyday for my loving wife and all the fond memories of hunting with my Papa from a child until now.

Please take time to take a kid hunting, it will be a life long memory and blessing for both of you!

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 08:34:24 AM »
Back when my Handi 30-06 was new and I had it sighted for 100 yards I would shoot three shot cloverleafs consistently.  Then I changed my sighting in for 200 yards and it's too far for clover leafs at that range.   
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Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 09:09:18 AM »
I have shot a few clover leaf with my H&R's with many 2 touching but they are very hard to do and it is probly mostly me and not the guns. Kurt
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Offline lonewolf5348

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 09:48:58 AM »
my 38-85 speaks for itself peep sight 75 yards
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/38-55002.jpg
my 30-06 at the 100 yd target
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/30-06target001.jpg
I have a new 243 cal. I trying to get going this spring hope she will shot that good
my old Remington SPR 18 at the 100 yd target will do o.k.
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Offline Daman

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 09:49:15 AM »
I have shot a few clover leaf with my H&R's with many 2 touching but they are very hard to do and it is probly mostly me and not the guns. Kurt

That is the case with most of us. I have a friend who has a custom competition rifle that shoots in the .3's regularly and I can only get about .75 out of it. The 222 mentioned above shoots about 1.25 off hand with me holding it and slightly better or worse depending on who is pulling the trigger.

Daman
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I thank God everyday for my loving wife and all the fond memories of hunting with my Papa from a child until now.

Please take time to take a kid hunting, it will be a life long memory and blessing for both of you!

Offline trotterlg

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2010, 10:04:41 AM »
Not from a factory Handi, but from a stubbed barrel in 17 FB, Clerk barrel at 100 Yards, 20gr DT Bullets BR4 primers and 20gr of Winchester 760.  Larry

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Offline PowPow

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2010, 10:31:01 AM »
In Larry's photo, the dime looks brand new and is dated 1987. ;D

I have a similar target from a 22-250 taped up on the wall in my shop, but not from my handi.
Took three shots, looked at the target and thought anything after this would be disappointed. Packed up and went home.
I will probably throw that target away after a couple of decades of trash talking.

My handi shoots a good group once for each new recipe.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2010, 10:39:46 AM »


Way more than you can imagine.. ;)

Mac
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Offline skarke

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2010, 10:51:51 AM »
Well, I've shot BR quite a bit over the years.  Not so much lately.  I can honestly say that, among some of the finest shooters I've ever seen, .3s as average are great groups with very specialized rigs, fine handloads, expensive rests, good ability to read mirage and wind, etc.

Getting a .3 in other than a flat calm, 70 degree day with a BR rig shooting a BR cartridge, and doing it consistently, well, it ain't easy.  I've read many posts about tiny groups.  I guess I just can't shoot very well, because I've NEVER AVERAGED .3s.  I've tried, and I have the gear.

I'd say that on a good day, I'll get some pretty fine groups.  There is always that 5th shot, or that 2nd, or the 1st of my usual group that opens me up.
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Offline Daman

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2010, 11:03:09 AM »
Well, I've shot BR quite a bit over the years.  Not so much lately.  I can honestly say that, among some of the finest shooters I've ever seen, .3s as average are great groups with very specialized rigs, fine handloads, expensive rests, good ability to read mirage and wind, etc.

Getting a .3 in other than a flat calm, 70 degree day with a BR rig shooting a BR cartridge, and doing it consistently, well, it ain't easy.  I've read many posts about tiny groups.  I guess I just can't shoot very well, because I've NEVER AVERAGED .3s.  I've tried, and I have the gear.

I'd say that on a good day, I'll get some pretty fine groups.  There is always that 5th shot, or that 2nd, or the 1st of my usual group that opens me up.

I seriously doubt that is the case. If you are referring to my groups, I can't explain it cause I don't shoot comp, but I do take the loads for those guns serious and they only shoot that good with one load each.

My friends gun is probably around the 5-6 grand mark as of now and he still adds on to it when he can. He has custom dies for the chamber and does everything meticulously.

Daman
Live simple. Hunt Hard. Love Life.

I thank God everyday for my loving wife and all the fond memories of hunting with my Papa from a child until now.

Please take time to take a kid hunting, it will be a life long memory and blessing for both of you!

Offline spikehorn

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2010, 11:37:59 AM »
I have a Tracker II 20ga that I had a scope rail put on and wears a 2X Tru Glo red dot that will clover leaf lightfield hybrid express at 65 yards. Other than that I have a pulse in my cheek so if I shoot sub MOA with any of my rifles I'm happy. I have shot 2 holes tuching with my handi 30-30 at 100 yards with rem core lokt 150gr psp.
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2010, 11:52:57 AM »
Shooting one hole groups does not come easily. There are so many factors involved. It takes a good gun and a good load, but it also takes a mighty steady rest and some one that is practiced, and a little luck to shoot small groups. Here is a picture of of five, five shot groups, shot in a row. The lower left group was a good one, but with a different gun.



The .21" group is the best group, I have ever shot, with any gun. I was in a groove that morning, no wind and you can see that not all groups were one hole, but not too bad. That gun shoots sub 1/2 MOA consistently. It started as a 223 Stevens 200, but every thing was changed with the exception of the action. The barrel is a 223 fluted SS A&B barrel that had maybe 800 full strokes down the barrel with polishing compound. Before the polishing job, it would foul up after five shots. It would shoot a sub 1/2" group and then slowly open up on every group there after. I have about $800 total in this gun, which includes a $100 scope. I have never shot bench rest competition; I am kinda fussy on the loading bench, maybe more than I should be, but I get enjoyment out of it. I have other guns that shoot well too, but this one, when I get in a groove shoots the best.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2010, 12:10:27 PM »
Hey wreckhog, Thats a good one! I've got a lot of fantastic 1 shot groups, all one caliber dia. Its the 2nd shot on that messes it up!
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Offline bigvarmnt

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2010, 12:24:54 PM »
Good Shootin LaOtto ;) I was there at Whans today after Tomlinsons. Didn't buy a couple things I should have :( Too windy to shoot today. Gonna try to load a couple rounds that will shoot like your groups ::) I either have some bad guns or I can't shoot for s#!+ anymore. Gonna keep tryin though :)

Those groups can make you feel GOOD!

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2010, 01:42:59 PM »
bigvarmint - I am currently working on a 1-8" twist 22 BR that I have high hopes for. I started with Big Game and 75 grain A-Max bullets. Not real impressed. I tried some Benchmark and it shows some promise. I was going to try my hand at some shooting today too, but like you said it is very windy, so I sat down at the 'puter. 
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2010, 06:12:17 PM »


Way more than you can imagine.. ;)

Mac

Mac,
  You sure you didn't completely miss the target with the rest of those shots?  ;D ::) LoL

Good shooting, Dinny
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2010, 06:15:55 PM »
I have a Ruger 77-22lr that is a J.A.R. (just another rifle). It shoots just as well as some of the fancy Anschutz target rifles I shot in Germany.  It cloverleafs all the way out to 70yds with good ammo. I got really lucky with that rifle and enjoy shooting and hunting with it. New price was $325.

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2010, 06:55:34 PM »


Way more than you can imagine.. ;)

Mac

Mac,
  You sure you didn't completely miss the target with the rest of those shots?  ;D ::) LoL

Good shooting, Dinny

Nawww...most of them went into the same hole...(best Elvis voice)..UhThankYouVeryMuch... ;) :D ;D

Mac
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2010, 04:10:09 PM »


Way more than you can imagine.. ;)

Mac

Mac,
  You sure you didn't completely miss the target with the rest of those shots?  ;D ::) LoL

Good shooting, Dinny

Nawww...most of them went into the same hole...(best Elvis voice)..UhThankYouVeryMuch... ;) :D ;D

Mac

I guess that's not all that bad for 25yds. Did you have the scope cranked all the way up to 20x?  ;D


Just teasing, Dinny

Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

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Offline Curt Dawson

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2010, 08:02:37 AM »
The 1917 Enfield that I had rebuilt into a 375 H&H would do that with 300gr. Silvertips. My eldest son now has it.

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2010, 08:25:49 AM »
Dinny,

Mac forgot to mention his 25 yard grouping was at an indoor pistol range. :P

BB
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Warthog

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2010, 01:10:04 PM »
I actually have had a couple of cloverleafs with my .44 Handi, so I know the rifle can do it.  The problem is, almost all of the time, I can't.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2010, 02:18:36 PM »
Warthog & Wreckhog.  You two brothers? :P
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline dangerranger

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2010, 10:02:57 PM »
I was shooting for clovers today but the best I could do was DOUNUTS! my worst target was 1 1/4" for 5 shots at 100yds and the best was 3/4". I was shooting at a target with a 1/2" bull. you would think with 5 rounds in 3/4" at least one would be in the bull, BUT NO! 5 holes neatly arranged around the bull. DR

Offline bigvarmnt

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2010, 06:48:29 AM »
Ten+ years ago I was on a pistol league. I shot a friends pistol one day. It seemed to shoot itself. I didn't want to pull the trigger on the last shot cause I was sure I would ruin the target. I shot anyway and this is what I got. It was a S.W. semi auto that shot 38 wadcutters seated flush with the case mouth. Can't remember mod # now. He WOULDN'T sell it to me. Not bad for a 100yds. NOOOT, about 30' or so I think. Indoor range. Not a Handi but sure felt good doing it. Plan on this with a 357 Handi ifn I ever get it. Sure wish I could get this with my Handis, maybe at 30'.

Offline skarke

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2010, 03:16:38 PM »
You know, I've always been an occasional club shooter.  I've never been to a Super Shoot, and I'm never gonna be.  Shooting like they do has an almost supernatural quality to it.  I've never come close. 

But, I know that the WINNING world championship aggregate in the IBS 100 yd for 2009 was barely under .2 (.1915).  Pretty much everybody else in the 2009 competition was in the .2s and .3s.

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/group/2009/aug10-15/index.php

If THESE guys shoot .2s and .3s, it seems that those might just be pretty fine scores.  Considering everybody on that list has sponsors, free stuff, gozillion dollar optics, etc., I'm just going to have to be satisfied with my occasional bug hole as pure luck, and something significantly larger for me as not only my good, but pretty darn good, groups.  I'm usually happy if I can keep them under a nickel on a calm day, and under an inch on windy days, or really hot or cold days.

BTW, my next barrel will be a 30 BR, if I ever get back to that type of shooting.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.  Ronaldus Maximus

Offline skarke

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Re: Anyone else shoot cloverleafs?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2010, 03:43:25 PM »
Another note, while initially expensive to get set up, BR shooting is a pretty reasonable hobby cost wise.  A good, used BR LV rifle is under 2K, don't underestimate a good Weaver scope, rest, bags, gear, etc.. $4K will get you there.  Then also, the big push is toward the 30 BR, which endures thousands of rounds before wearing out (some say that they'll stay at peak accuracy with a good, cut rifled barrel for over 8000 rounds, WOW), so you aren't looking at a rebarrel every 1500 to 2500 rounds as you are with a 22 or 6mm PPC.

Those of us who like to have these discussions, but have been scared away by concern over our skill not being world class, don't be.  It is way fun, and most everybody shooting are just good folks doing so recreationally, just like us.

Also, don't let the $4K pricetag kill you either.  A person using an off the shelf varmint rig like a Remington VS in 223 (223 for barrel life mainly), Caldwell rests and a decent scope can compete quite nicely for less than $1200 or $1300.

I'll take a master marksman with a cheap rig like that over me, and most everybody else, even if I am shooting a state of the art everything rig.  The reason is in how they time their shots, judge wind and mirage, and use their experience.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.  Ronaldus Maximus