Author Topic: Coehorn Mortars  (Read 3800 times)

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Offline tombstone270

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Coehorn Mortars
« on: April 12, 2010, 05:39:53 AM »
Hello ,,,and yes I am a newbie...forsure....I have made a small golf ball cannon..

But now I am trying to have made a 12 pound Coehorn Mortar close to Civil War specs.
as I can.... so my question is what is the bore...I have seen 4.5" - 4.6" and 4.62" the later
being what I think it is....

My diametions that I am look at are ..... little less than 7" OD 4.62" bore and about 12 1/2" long....looking to make it from 7"  x 13"  1018 bar

I have read much of the post here some var. just wanted to check my numbers and steel....

thank you so much...Great fourm



tomb

Offline BoomLover

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 06:20:51 AM »
Welcome to the forum, Tombstone270! It's a little early yet this morning, but stick around, you will get lots of answers and comments from these guys. Some build to exact scale, and some use the MIF method, but we all have a lot of fun and gain lots of info here. BoomLover
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline Double D

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 06:27:22 AM »
First looked at the Wanted: Your opinions on Dixie Gun Works mortar post and you will see some discussion on the possibility of a 12 Pound Civil war mortar.  The literature says the Confederates made 12 PDR, but no proven examples exist.  It is subject of great debate.

On the other hand if you are making a scaled down version of the 24 PDR and you are making it 12 PDR then the numbers ore 4.62 for bore and 4.52 for the ball.  I am building Confederate pattern in 6 PDR

Are you making a Federal pattern or a Confederate pattern?  What plans are you working from?

Offline tombstone270

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 07:35:55 AM »
I have a couple of patterns one from this forum it is a 1/2 scale 4.62 of a union design...

I would like to do the CSV not desided yet...

I have read that the CSV has no bands and has straight sides...I was trying to fine the Picture of the one Museum at VMI... I know there is a debate if that one is original or not....

thanks for the help....

tomb

Offline Double D

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 10:00:49 AM »
If you want plans for the Confederate Mortars contact Robert West at N-SSA here is a link to The N-SSA forum.  http://n-ssa.org/phpBB3/index.php

Contact the Webmaster, or is that Webmistress Courtney West and ask her to help you get a hold do Robert.

If you want to start a food fight, bring the topic of that 12 PDR Mortar over there in that board. No don't, I'm just kidding!

Offline tombstone270

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 10:10:17 AM »
Thanks ...i will check it out...\

tomb

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2010, 10:48:29 PM »
I know that there is no known "undisputed" example of an historic Confederate 12-pdr Coehorn in existence, but there are records of them being manufactured by Tredegar Foundry, and first hand accounts of them being used by the CSA (even from Union officers).
The CSA Coehorns that I find mysterious are the Selma Alabama Arsenal's 24-pdr Coehorns. The only image of that mortar that I've seen is the reproduction from 'Steen Cannon & Ordnance Works'. AOP doesn't have drawings of that Selma Arsenal mortar, and Ive never seen any other examples of the mortar that Steen makes; does anyone have any info on a CSA 24-pdr that has that specific profile?







RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 01:03:16 AM »
Thanks ...i will check it out...\

tomb

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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 07:03:17 PM »
I think that there are a few members here who have had long term subscriptions to the "Artilleryman Magazine," if so, there is an article about 'Selma Coehorn Mortar No.10' in 'Artilleryman Vol.13, No.3'.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 07:27:02 PM »
If the copyright has expired, can you post the article?  If not, how about a summary.

That is an interesting profile for that period.
GG
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 08:00:27 PM »
If the copyright has expired, can you post the article?  If not, how about a summary.

That is an interesting profile for that period.

George,
I don't have access to the article; like you, I'm very interested in learning anything about this mortar type that is contained in the article. 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2010, 06:46:46 AM »
The mortar in the article looks pretty much like the one in Boom J's post number 6, complete with heavy muzzle band. The article states that the mortar was dug up at Ft. Morgan, Alabama. It is stamped with the number 10 and is missing it's trunnions. The article gives a few measurments of the mortar as well as some dimensions from those cast by the Selma Naval Gun Foundry, where it is believed to have been cast on August 17, 1864. 
Max

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 08:06:57 PM »
Max,
By what you say, it sounds like there are existing records from the Selma Foundry that give specifications for this mortar. Another member is going to send me the article, I'm very curious to read the whole piece. Usually rarities like this generate a lot of interest; I wonder why there hasn't been more written about this mortar, and why some of the other artillery manufacturing companies don't also have models of it up for sale?
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2010, 07:57:01 PM »
Yesterday I recieved an envelope in the mail from a fellow member who kindly sent me a copy of the "Selma Coehorn Mortar No. 10" article from "The Artilleryman" magazine, and I'd like to thank him again.
It is a very interesting read, and it was written by Lawrence R. Laboda who is also the author of a book titled: "From Selma to Appomattox: the history of the Jeff Davis Artillery," first published in 1994 by White Mane Publishing Company, Inc., P.O. Box 152, Shippensburg, PA 17257.
As Max has already stated, the author had discovered the Selma Naval Gun Foundry records in Washington D.C. at the National Archives, and from the evidence he found there, it is almost certain that this 24-pdr Coehorn No.10 discovered at Mobile Point, by the walls of Fort Morgan, was manufactured by the Selma Naval Gun Foundry in 1864. This isn't in the article, but it's interesting to note that the Selma Naval Gun Foundry was also variously called "Selma Cannon Foundry," "Naval Gun Foundry and Ordnance Works, Selma, Ala.," and sometimes simply the "Selma Foundry."
There is almost no question that No.10 was fired against Union forces during the siege of Mobile in March of 65, and after its capture by Federal forces it was transported to Fort Morgan where they buried it. What isn't know is whether it was Union soldiers that disabled the mortar by knocking its trunnions off, or if it was done by CSA troops before it fell into Federal hands.
I'm not going to retell the whole article here, but I will say that some day I'd sure like to have a reproduction of No.10.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2010, 08:49:11 PM »
Is the original one in public view?
GG
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2010, 09:26:19 PM »
The opportunity arose (it isn't stated who had ownership of the mortar after it was recovered) to purchase the mortar, and the author of this Artilleryman article bought it. He had a US M1841 Coehorn type bed made to mount it on, and it is shown in a photograph accompanying the article. The photo shows the mortar from the top side, and as Max said previously, it displays a better than fair resemblance to the Steen reproduction.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2010, 02:57:02 AM »
Selma Coehorn mortar number 10 is listed in the National Registry of Surviving Civil War Artillery and is shown as being located in Mineola, NY.
Max

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2010, 06:23:25 AM »
Max,
You must have an older Registry, because on the new ones any "privately owned" artillery piece is listed as just that, no locations are given.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2010, 06:44:19 AM »
Boom J,    I have a 1983 and a 1997 list.  Do you know the date of the latest list?  Like you, I like the looks of the Selma mortar.  If the one shown in your pictures is a Steen mortar, then I would bet that it was made from measurments from the original.
Max

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2010, 08:01:22 AM »
Max,
My 'Registry' is dated March 10th of 09, and Jim Bender had just finished the work on this new "Bore Order List" edition, and decided to offer it to the public again. I'm not sure of this, (I didn't save the e-mail) but I think he said that this was the first time it was going to be made available again since the passing of Wayne E. Stark.

It's just a guess on my part, but yes I'd agree that Steen probably got all the specifications for this mortar from the National Archives, and from Mr. Laboda first hand before deciding to manufacture this piece.

RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline lance

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2010, 04:35:13 PM »
I'll say welcome, and did someone mention a food fight? anyway, if you want some ammo or food, read this if you haven't already:
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Double D

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2010, 04:50:02 PM »
Lance, that came out near the end of the war.  So the question is, what was done?  Was development started on a federal 12 PDR?

Offline lance

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2010, 03:45:40 PM »
Lance, that came out near the end of the war.  So the question is, what was done?  Was development started on a federal 12 PDR?
Well, i have lot's of info, but since it's Saturday Night Fun Night..... Yes Douglas, the federals started by using wooden 12 PDR mortars at Vicksburg :)
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Double D

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2010, 05:08:41 AM »
Tell us more Lance! What did Federal 12 PDR's look like?  Do any still exist?

Offline lance

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2010, 04:00:57 PM »
What do you want, more food for the food fight? Union General U.S. Grant spoke highly of the wooden 12PDR mortars at Vicksburg, but, Confederate General E.P. Alexander didn't have any praise, for the wooden mortars his troops used during the Petersburg Campaign.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Double D

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2010, 04:40:54 AM »
What do you want, more food for the food fight? Union General U.S. Grant spoke highly of the wooden 12PDR mortars at Vicksburg, but, Confederate General E.P. Alexander didn't have any praise, for the wooden mortars his troops used during the Petersburg Campaign.

Food fight?  I want knowledge!  Did the Federal progress beyond the wooden 12 PDR? Tell us more

Offline lance

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2010, 03:48:04 PM »
What do you want, more food for the food fight? Union General U.S. Grant spoke highly of the wooden 12PDR mortars at Vicksburg, but, Confederate General E.P. Alexander didn't have any praise, for the wooden mortars his troops used during the Petersburg Campaign.

Food fight?  I want knowledge!  Did the Federal progress beyond the wooden 12 PDR? Tell us more
You want knowledge, and i wouldn't mind some happiness, but i don't see either one happening with a computer.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline lance

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2010, 04:38:46 PM »
Let's see if i can fix this topic.
Douglas, the only reason i posted that document on reply #20 is because it's really about the Confederate 12 PDR Mortar, told through the eyes of a Yankee. I'm more interested in the Confederate 12 PDR, so i'll sit back and watch this topic.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2010, 07:55:52 AM »
But Lance -
You're the one with the book!

 :'(
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline lance

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Re: Coehorn Mortars
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2010, 03:51:55 PM »
But Lance -
You're the one with the book!

 :'(
I have lot's of books, that's why i'll just sit back and watch this topic.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!