RCBS cowboy dies

[Scibaer]

what is the difference between the cowboy dies and the regular carbide dies ?
 RCBS offers steel or carbide for both thier regular die set and the cowboy die set.
i understand that the cowboy set has some brass components, is that it  or is there some other differences too ?
i;m interested in the .45 colt set , so are they sized for the old colt cases, at .454 ?

[saddlebum]

They are supposed to have dimensions that optimize loading with lead bullets, whatever that means. They are heat treated to get an old timey appearance and have brass lock rings. They come in old timey looking packaging. I assume they come with a carbide sizer. I looked at them when I bought .45LC dies and decided I didn't need to pay extra for old timey looks. I have the standard carbide die set and it works great. The sizer sizes for a good tight grip on the cast bullets I use and I get a good roll crimp. I could be wrong but I think the Cowboy dies are more gimmick than anything to up the price, IMO.

[jimster]

I have both regular RCBS and the cowboy dies (yes they have a carbide ring), I like the cowboy dies because the crimp die seems to be made for cast bullets more than the older RCBS dies I have, in which the crimp die seems to work better for jacketed bullets. The cowboy dies I have seems to be more of taper crimp, and doesn't roll the mouth of the case as much.  I like the cowboy dies better only because of this. I also agree they did not have to do the heat treating thing, and if you want to get rid of the brass lock rings, you can replace them.  Cowbody dies also come with two different size expanders (one in 454 as you asked about), in case you need to use slightly larger diameter bullets.  I think the bullet seater is a slightly different shape as well, for cast lead bullets.  I bought the cowboy set, but should have checked into just buying a decent crimp die, maybe just a bullet seater....but if you don't have any dies in 45 colt and are going to use lots of cast bullets I guess you might as well get the cowboy dies. Note...I have not used the 454 exapander as I buy most of my bullets in 452.  But it could come in handy I suppose if you needed to use 454 bullets in one of your guns.  

Hope this helps some.

[Swampman]

I think they are hype and very expensive.  BTW RCBS has a $10.00 rebate on a $50.00 buy for the rest of the year.  You can print out the cupon on their site.  The Lee Factory Crimp die is a great thing to have BTW.

[jimster]

I agree Swampman, I could have saved some bucks just getting a Lee crimp die and using the 25 year old RCBS dies I had already.  I think paid close to 60 bucks or so for the cowboy dies when they came out.  I could have done better. You can get a Lee 4 die set that included the factory crimp die for less than 40 bucks.  

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=LEE90967

[saddlebum]

Just in the interest of helping Scibaer out, if I can, I think he is gearing up for a new stainless Blackhawk he was showing off on another thread. I just took another look at the Midway catalog and both regular 3 die carbide and Cowboy die sets are advertised as having a roll crimp die. Since he has a BH and might want to shoot high powered loads in it, I would strongly suggest using a roll crimp. The modern bullets will have a crimp groove and the old style Colt bullets, I thought, take a light roll crimp over the base of the ogive. I have the standard set and use cast bullets with a crimp groove. Because they are light loads,(about 850fps), I adjust the die for a light crimp just enough to bring the case mouth back flush with the nose. This is enough to keep the bullets in place when shooting them in my SAA and Marlin 1894. For hotter loads the crimp should be a little more aggressive to keep the bullets in place and not lockup your gun when they come out the end of your cylinder. In a tube magazine you don't want them being pushed back in the case so as to create high pressures and bad accuracy. The Cowboy dies cost 20.00 more at Midway.   I can't argue over a factory crimp die since I have never used one.

[Swampman]

I thought all RCBS dies roll crimped.  I buy my dies for around $20.00 or less used.  I'm tight with my money.

[saddlebum]

Yea Swampman I'm a tightwad myself. Years ago when I upgraded to all RCBS stuff from what I had, it hurt a little but it was worth it. Would like to upgrade some more but man stuff has gotten expensive. What I have does me just fine.

[jimster]

I thought all RCBS dies roll crimped.

Ya, my cowboy die does roll crimp, it just seems like the really old rcbs die I have is a real drastic roll crimp compared to the cowboy die, maybe my old one was made a little different.  I've had that set for at least 25 years or more.  The newer one I have doesn't seem to roll it over at such a drastic angle all at once like the old one.  I probably should get a Lee factory crimp die just to see how I like that. 

Jim

[saddlebum]

jimster;   I think you may be right about that old die. The old Hornady dies I used to have did seem to curl the case mouth in too much. Newer ones have probably been emproved some. I have never tried a factory crimp die. I might like to try one for my jacketed rifle rounds though.

[Scibaer]

saddlebum,
 yes i gearing up for my BH and i will be shoot fairly shout loads, nothing super hot but i will be hunting hogs and whitetails with it ,and looking to make 75 yard shots, at the outside. the crimp is one area that i'm taking a special concern over with the dies.

i appreciate all the responses, they were alot of help. i think that the standard carbide dies from RCBS is what i'll get but the Lee factory crimp die is something i'm going to get too , getting the most secure crimp might be worth the cost, if i run some shout loads.
for the most part, i have a mix of Lee and RCBS stuff , but i cant buy expensive RCBS cowboy dies and not trust the crimp.

[Grumulkin]

I have the 45 Colt Cowboy dies mainly because nothing else was in stock when I bought them during the initial part of the Obama scare.  They're quite nice but I would agree with other posters who say you're paying quite a bit for bling.

The best way to get a very good crimp without deforming the case is with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

[saddlebum]

 

[bilmac]

That was kind of my impression of cowboy shooting. There were some groups that were into shooting, but others were into BLING. Brass locking rings would fit right in.

[Swampman]

The reason I quit is because they were letting people shoot in t-shirts & tennis shoes.  I had $1000.00 dollars worth of period clothes & boots.  The sport became IPSC in semi-funny clothes.  There is no focus on history or tradition.

[bilmac]

All about balance I suppose, where I enjoyed shooting a good share of the folks were ranchers, and every day wear for almost everybody is pretty cowboy, just left the John Deere ball caps at home and put on the cowboy hat.

[saddlebum]

I'm not trying to be a butthead or anything about crimp dies, but I asked an expert what he thought about the FC dies. This is what he said..........Just trying to look out for ya.           http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,205529.new.html

[Diesel40]

I'm not trying to be a butthead or anything about crimp dies, but I asked an expert what he thought about the FC dies. This is what he said..........Just trying to look out for ya.           http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,205529.new.html

So is he saying not to use the FC for pistols.  Is that all pistols?  What about my 45acp.

[saddlebum]

My question to Veral was specifically about cast bullets in revolvers. Then we got into FC dies used with rifles. What I got from his comments is he highly disaproves of the carbide sizing ring and sizing of the round while seating the bullet. Another poster there complained of it also. As far as semi-auto rounds go, I assume the same goes there too. Feel free to ask Veral for his thoughts on that to make sure if you like. My experience is that a good sizing die that promotes a tight grip on the bullet along with the taper crimp, common to those die sets, works fine for my .45acp.   I have just been trying to see if there is any reason for me to buy and use FC dies in my reloading. With the info. I have, I see no reason to use them with the reloading I do now. Thats just my decision, yours may be different.

[Diesel40]

My question to Veral was specifically about cast bullets in revolvers. Then we got into FC dies used with rifles. What I got from his comments is he highly disaproves of the carbide sizing ring or sizing of the round while seating the bullet. Another poster there complained of it also. As far as semi-auto rounds go, I assume the same goes there too. Feel free to ask Veral for his thoughts on that to make sure if you like. My experience is that a good sizing die that promotes a tight grip on the bullet along with the taper crimp, common to those die sets, works fine for my .45acp.   I have just been trying to see if there is any reason for me to buy and use FC dies in my reloading. With the info. I have, I see no reason to use them with the reloading I do now. Thats just my decision, yours may be different.

I follow you.  thanks.