Author Topic: No Fancy Bullets or Powders Here! Just a Good Honest Group & an Old Rifle (Read 3554 times)

Dee · « **Reply #30 on:** April 25, 2010, 05:59:47 AM »

Guys I am using an old Lyman 46th Edition loading manual. It was printed BEFORE political correctness, and trial lawyers came into vogue. In the newer 48th Edition of the Lyman manual there is a full 2 grains difference in the load using the same bullet, and powder.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #31 on:** April 25, 2010, 07:29:20 AM »

Second try!

Thanks for telling us where your load came from Dan!

It made me dig out my #48 and I found it listed BL-C(2) as the most accurate powder. I also noticed it has the same max charge as I have listed in my loading notes. This makes me believe, since I darn sure don't remember, that I got this load from the 48 originally!

So, since I'm getting deer killing sized groups, and since the velocity I'm getting is right in line with what the #48 lists for this powder/bullet, I think I'll play with the ball c 2 some more. $:-\$ I'm still .4 gr short of max!

But! First I think I'll pull the rifle down completely and check for anything that might effect accuracy. $:-\$ And, since I been wanting to refinish it ...

Dee · « **Reply #32 on:** April 26, 2010, 11:14:53 AM »

Guys, I try to shoot once or twice a week, just cause I like to stay sharp. Sometimes I shoot 15 or 20 rounds, and sometimes I may only shot one round. But I thought I would show you what an old Winchester and an even older man can do with this reload I told you about, when the old man is doin his part.
This picture was taken about an hour ago. It is the BOTTOM of a soft drink can that I just shot at a measured 110 yards. As you can tell the soft drink (A&W) was unopened when hit. This was a first shot hit, not one of many, and the can was on forked sticks, on it's side with the bottom facing me. The forked sticks prevent cheating by skippin the shot in, so it was two feet off the ground and I did it, shooting out of the door window of my Jeep for a rest. You can click to enlarge, and see that the load is accurate, and the ring is still visible on the bottom showin an almost dead center hit.
This is just another example of why me and this ole Winchester have been friends for so long.

CLICK TO ENLARGE

AtlLaw · « **Reply #33 on:** April 26, 2010, 11:24:15 AM »

Quote from: Dee on April 26, 2010, 11:14:53 AM

This is just another example of why me and this ole Winchester have been friends for so long.

Yah, well, you ain't so cool... $:-\$

I could do that to! If I had an accurate rifle... and an accurate load... and shot a couple a times a week...

Dee · « **Reply #34 on:** April 26, 2010, 11:26:49 AM »

Richard I magin you could do better than me if you shot more. Most anyboby could.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #35 on:** April 26, 2010, 11:43:16 AM »

Shoot Dan! You know I can't even see that can at 110 yards!

But then, the longest shot I could possibly have from the stand I been hunting outa for the last few years is 50 yards.

Dee · « **Reply #36 on:** April 26, 2010, 12:06:36 PM »

Richard sounds like you need to get the chain saw out and open up the timber to put a challenge into your huntin. Down here, if it's that close we just jump outta the tree and run'em down, and bulldog'em to the ground, put a bridler on'em, and ride'em to the meat locker. It's faster, quiter, cheaper, and you get a little exercise to boot.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #37 on:** April 26, 2010, 01:58:13 PM »

Swampman · « **Reply #38 on:** April 26, 2010, 03:00:17 PM »

My Marlin .30-30s will shoot 1" groups with Remington 170 grain CoreLokts. Good shootin'.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #39 on:** April 26, 2010, 04:03:14 PM »

Reading what everyone uses, I thought that I would say that I have used IMR 4064 for everything .30 caliber since I started reloading in the mid '60s. I have tried other powders, just always come back to this one. As a friend told me many years ago, in .30-30, .30-06 and .308 you can about fill the case up with this powder and still not exceed SAAMI pressures. Well, that may be an exaggeration but not too much!

-Kees-

Dee · « **Reply #40 on:** April 26, 2010, 04:33:51 PM »

Winter Hawk, years ago I used a can or two of 4064. I didn't have any problems with it as I recall in the accuracy dept, but couldn't get the factory loaded velocity of 2400 out of the 150 grain round noses. Same deal with 3031. I tried the 748 and bingo, my velocity was where I wanted it, and the rifle loved the stuff in the way of accuracy.
It's all I load in 3030 and 223.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #41 on:** April 26, 2010, 04:48:52 PM »

Real nice shootin Dee! I like your getting back to basics thing! Although I'm scared to do it! too many years of struggling to get what I have to turn loose of it! The boat, the trailers, the trucks, and the guns. I cant bring my self to part with any of it. Wish I could! Maybe some day.

Dee · « **Reply #42 on:** April 26, 2010, 05:02:35 PM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on April 26, 2010, 04:48:52 PM

Real nice shootin Dee! I like your getting back to basics thing! Although I'm scared to do it! too many years of struggling to get what I have to turn loose of it! The boat, the trailers, the trucks, and the guns. I cant bring my self to part with any of it. Wish I could! Maybe some day.

With my home, a little land, and cars paid for Oldshooter I'm able to pretty much get what I want. I just don't want as much as I used to. I can't get peace with stuff any more. I get it with peace if you know what I mean.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #43 on:** April 26, 2010, 09:42:58 PM »

Dee,
I'm pretty much with Old Shooter here on "down-sizing". With the two divorces and bankruptcy, seems like I've always been starting over, so have not been able to get a house, much less get it paid for. Still got the trucks, guns and guitars and loads of hobby stuff, both mine and the wife's, that we so far have been unable (unwilling) to let go of - This last lay off really cooked our goose as to buying a place. A big part of our reserves have gone to subsistence with just a touch of "fun". One thing I do give thought to - the concept of "saving for the eventual" and then not living that long, when we could have been living a bit more. I know our days are numbered and we know not the number, that is not a problem for us. We also trust the Lord will show us the way to meet our needs and always on time - He has done it over and over these last 24 years I've been serving Him. We try to be good stewards of what we do have and pray it's good enough and that we are "reading it right".

Gonna take a break and do some Spring bear hunting, starting tomorrow - taking the old 40-82 with 280gr cast bullets over some H4895 and cornmeal - that full buckhorn sight looks like a ghost ring to my old eyes and should be good enough if we see something. I've seen a lot of bear while working (surveying) but only saw one small cub a couple years ago while actually hunting. Just need a change of pace. The foot, ankle and knee feel good and looking for an excuse to get out "unstressfully".

Dee · « **Reply #44 on:** April 27, 2010, 01:46:19 AM »

Know what ya mean about startin over Sweetwater. The wife and I have been married almost 23 years, and was married twice before, and got pretty much cleaned out in those two, and I lost my job last October 3rd, and the economy is real bad here. Been tryin ever since to get used to lookin for work on a computer. Times is changin, but the fact that the Lord never leads us into something, He can't lead us out of is our "savin grace". I just keep lookin.
I don't have any savins, investments took that, but barring sickness it doesn't take much to get by on. Our income otherwise is small. Good luck on the bear hunt.

Dee · « **Reply #45 on:** April 27, 2010, 11:18:20 AM »

Well guys I got it on my mind, and had to try it. I got lazy and just took a pair of shooting sticks and did this one sittin on the ground, and it weren't too steady but, I got it done. This shot was at 200 measured yards and as I said sittin on the ground with shootin sticks.
The 12 ounce vanilla flavored

A&W root beer can was once again layin on it's side with the bottom facing me as the target, and was once again suspended on two forked stick about 2 feet above the ground so no cheatin with a skipped shot.
I used my 52 year old Winchester Model 94 with a tang peep sight, and a 150 grain round nose Remington (bulk purchased) bullet, in front of 38 grains of 748 at 2400fps. The down side was, because of my lack of a good rest (support) I didn't hit it until my 4th shot, but was real close each time. The bottom of a 12 oz soft drink can at 200 yards ain't very big, BUT! I think with a better rest I can hit one at 250 yards in under 3 shots.
If you click to enlarge the photo you can not only see the entrance into the bottom of the can, but the exit in the mangled top. Didn't touch the sides bottom to top. Not bad, I'm satisfied.

streak · « **Reply #46 on:** April 27, 2010, 11:31:01 AM »

Well I guess we will have to start calling him" Dead Eye Dee"!!
Great shooting Dee!

mechanic · « **Reply #47 on:** April 27, 2010, 12:39:10 PM »

Now Dee, I've been doing some calculating, and that rifle is getting pretty old. It would seem the shooter is sneaking up on at least middle age as well. To quote my uninformed son in law, an old gun just can't shoot like the modern ones. (This in response to my pulling out a 100 yr. old 22 to shoot.) He could not understand why I kept such an old thing.

So I guess what I'm sayin' is, you ought to get a more modern gun! And maybe some hair color and contacts, so you will be in the modern era.

Just funnin' around, which is what I do best..or worse. Good shooting. Hang onto what works, and don't shoot at me.....!!!

Dee · « **Reply #48 on:** April 27, 2010, 01:44:13 PM »

Well mechanic, the snow is meltin on the mountain, but it ain't ;From a dye bottle, it's just goin away. Maybe it's global warmin.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #49 on:** April 29, 2010, 09:41:21 AM »

It's GRAVITY! I used to have a full head of hair, sparse beard and no hair on my chest. Now I have hair on my chest, a full beard and no hair on top of my head. Gravity done sucked it down!

-Kees-

Dee · « **Reply #50 on:** April 29, 2010, 10:57:16 AM »

That must be what's happenin.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #51 on:** April 29, 2010, 06:38:48 PM »

Ah yes... I'd like to have long hair... $:-\$ Back in the 60's I kept mine kinda short... Nowadays what with the hairline recedin...

Mikey · « **Reply #52 on:** April 30, 2010, 01:54:13 AM »

My wife just told me she can't see where the tan line on my forehead ends......I'm not sure what to make of that.........

Retsof · « **Reply #53 on:** April 30, 2010, 06:01:37 AM »

Quote from: Dee on April 13, 2010, 01:41:15 PM

Guys this is my do everything load, that I have been loading since 1970 or 71. A Remington round nose 150 grainer, at 2400 fps. I shot this as my first group about an hour ago, and it is the first 100 yard group I've fired from the bench since I replaced my long used Lyman 66 Receiver Sight, with the Marbles Tang Sight. My eyes could no longer focus on the front sight with the receiver sight due to age. MY AGE!
The three shot group measures just a tad under 1 7/8 inch, center to center, with the flyer being just above the first two, and the zero is for 175 yards. That way I don't have to fool with hold over out to 200 yards, as there is just a 2 inch variance out to there. Then only 9 inches at 250 yards.
For you guys that don't know, I have been shootin this same rifle since it was bought new in 1958, so a 60 year old fart, shootin a 52 year old Winchester 94. No too bad.
You can double click the photo to enlarge.

+1. After many years of hunting deer and trying many different ammo combinations, I've come to the same conclusion. My local Wally World has regularly in stock Federal 270 Winchester Ammo with a 150 gr. round nose bullet for $13.94/box. That's hard to pass up. It gives me more $ to spend on other things I need or want. I will say that in the area I have hunted for the past 20 years, the furthest I've ever shot a deer is just over 100 yards. So, I don't need long range projectiles.

zoner · « **Reply #54 on:** April 30, 2010, 01:46:56 PM »

Dee the bottom line here is you just plain know your rifle and your load inside and out. While a lot of folks(including me

) have tried this and tried that you have stuck with what you know, not what you think you know. Like i said before i'm gonna work on my iron-sight shootin.....cuz of your posts

Sweetwater · « **Reply #55 on:** May 18, 2010, 09:05:15 AM »

Actually, by virtue of the evidences and pics posted, I think 300yards is doable with his present setup. Might take a bit of Yankee Elevation....go get 'em, Dee!

Dee · « **Reply #56 on:** May 18, 2010, 10:18:58 AM »

Well. I posted on another thread that I had the other day made the 250 yard shot on the bottom of a 12 oz soda can. I think soon as it dries up, I'll try the 300 yard shot. I'm gonna start however with the bottom of a milk jug. That's a six inch square. That would be a good shot wouldn't it? With my zero about a 20 inch drop. That's doable without even movin the sights I think.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #57 on:** May 18, 2010, 11:17:08 PM »

That 6" square just might equate to a deer kill-zone - H'mm - might have to look-see remaining energy to make sure there's enough to take out the target! I know a 38Spl will kill a deer up close, so let's say minimum of 350ftlbs and see what the tables say for 300 yards with your 150gr at 2400fps: yields 750-800ftlbs of energy at 300 yards - say what? There is still 450fpe at 500 yards! Remaining velocity @ 1163fps. However, here it is. Rear sight limitation. w/200yd zero Drop at 300yds = -14" vs drop at 500yds = -90.5"

Dee, how do your eyes feel? Looks like 400 yards might be a "practical limit" for sighting IF you took a 300yd zero. 8" high at 100yds; 9" high at 200yds; 0" at 300yds; -24" at 400yds. You'd have to guess range really good to make that happen on a "standing game target". I'm surprised the numbers hold up that well.

Actually for deer type game, a 200yd zero and 300yd range is not to be taken lightly. Practice, aim careful, good sight picture, squeeze, and start carving. remaining velocity at 300yds = 1554fps - that Corelok should work fine at that velocity. JMHO We have ourselves brain-washed into needing "more than enough" gun.

Dee · « **Reply #58 on:** May 19, 2010, 03:04:43 AM »

Sweetwater, first chance you get, measure across the "bottom" of a 12 oz soda can. I can not only see it at 250 yards, I can hit it a 250 yards.
And TM7, why would I change the load to a spitzer type bullet. I've been shootin and hittin with the one I have for over 50 years?
An aperture sight will bring the old eyes back up to snuff many times.

Dee · « **Reply #59 on:** May 19, 2010, 04:49:37 AM »

TM, I was for quite a few years, never satisfied, and had to have the latest hot round, but always ended up back to the ole 94 3030. About the only rounds I've stayed with are, the 2506, which I don't own anymore, but have owned 8, and the 223. I am even considering gettin out to the 223, and goin back to the 2506, but my NEEDS don't justify that. So?